Do you guys take all this that seriously?
- Thread starter mcb
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mcb
Member
This was part of one of my reply back on page 3 and is a good example of what I mean.
"For example, do you let the Westgate shopping mall attack in Kenya drive what you carry here in the US or do you de-emphasis such extreme long-odds events in your CCW selection process? I am fairly sure what I carry would be insufficient or at least a significant handicap if I was caught up in the Westgate mall attack, but I am not changing what I carry because of that realization."
If you are unfamiliar with that event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westgate_shopping_mall_attack
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mcb
Member
That was intentional. I was hoping this thread would be about hunting, woods carry etc almost as much about self-defense but self-defense always seem to grab attentions.
You will also notice I have never mentioned particular firearms or cartridges anywhere in my posts to the thread. I was hopping the thread would be more about how decide what firearm we choose to carry/use for the various uses/tasks we employ a firearm. I did not want it be be about what specific firearms/cartridges we use. We do caliber-war threads all the time I wanted a discussion of motivations and reasons.
And yes looking back on it I did a poor job starting this thread. Live and learn and keep trying.
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FlSwampRat
Member
This and so many other discussions come down to where someone draws a line with their chalk on the blackboard of life. There's always going to be someone to argue you're undergunned if you have an M-60 with someone along carrying two ammo cans and a spare barrel. That other person is going to wonder why you don't have a .50 cal.
I carry what I'm comfortable with carrying. What I think will most likely meet my needs.
When my wife and I get home from errands we don't approach the house in 2 x 2 cover formation in case there's a squad of goblins in the house. We don't stab the bushes with swords in case there's ninjas hiding in them.
These are the worst case scenarios that are extremely unlikely to happen. I have the ability to remotely trigger lights in my house and I can remotely check the security cameras if I'm coming home after the usual lighting programs have run their course for the night. The security system will alert my phone if there is some trigger and I can check the lights then. At an ATM my truck isn't in park, it's in drive and if I'm approached I can take appropriate action.
I grew up in Jersey City NJ and went to college in downtown Newark. I managed a pawnshop in Liberty City section of Miami for 5 years.
As for being in jeopardy of a bear attack, I don't go where they are and there have been no bear sightings in Fort Lauderdale of which I am aware. We do get occasional trash pandas and the odd possum or two.
I was once given advice, when I was younger and in hiking and camping shape, about preparing to enter bear territory. A guy said to just be sure to bring someone along I didn't like all that much who I could easily outrun.
I carry what I'm comfortable with carrying. What I think will most likely meet my needs.
When my wife and I get home from errands we don't approach the house in 2 x 2 cover formation in case there's a squad of goblins in the house. We don't stab the bushes with swords in case there's ninjas hiding in them.
These are the worst case scenarios that are extremely unlikely to happen. I have the ability to remotely trigger lights in my house and I can remotely check the security cameras if I'm coming home after the usual lighting programs have run their course for the night. The security system will alert my phone if there is some trigger and I can check the lights then. At an ATM my truck isn't in park, it's in drive and if I'm approached I can take appropriate action.
I grew up in Jersey City NJ and went to college in downtown Newark. I managed a pawnshop in Liberty City section of Miami for 5 years.
As for being in jeopardy of a bear attack, I don't go where they are and there have been no bear sightings in Fort Lauderdale of which I am aware. We do get occasional trash pandas and the odd possum or two.
I was once given advice, when I was younger and in hiking and camping shape, about preparing to enter bear territory. A guy said to just be sure to bring someone along I didn't like all that much who I could easily outrun.
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Sovblocgunfan
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In answer to the OP extreme situations do not really affect my choices. Perhaps some influence regarding HD firearm choices, but not CCW per se.
Ernie Bass
member
Amazing how powerful "Fear" can take over the human mind. Looking at some of the post, you can see how it effects some people. Reminds me of the movie "Jaws", You will never go swimming again kind of thing. Go to the internet over the years and fear seems to just grow more all the time. A snowball effect. People become irrational, the more you read about fear of something you more you become irrational. Fear is a great tool, used by, Politicians, political movements, all kinds of organizations, used by the anti gun crowd and by the Pro gun crowd and just about anything you can sell. I wonder what things we could Come up with by just using our imagination. For sure Fear sells firearms and ammo.
Worst case scenarios- you are swimming and attacked by a Giant Octopus
Worst case scenarios- you are swimming and attacked by a Giant Octopus
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Sorry to disagree with my colleague but incidents like that do figure in my world view. They had multiple attackers driven by fanaticism. The attack on the Jewish deli in Jersey City came from the same core insanity of hate.
It is rare but can happen. Thus, the J frame is only if constrained. I once thought I would have to deal with 4 folks of the same ilk. Avoidance worked out luckily. I then decided that if I carry, it's not Cosplay but the best efficacious paradigm I could manage.
It is rare but can happen. Thus, the J frame is only if constrained. I once thought I would have to deal with 4 folks of the same ilk. Avoidance worked out luckily. I then decided that if I carry, it's not Cosplay but the best efficacious paradigm I could manage.
illinoisburt
Member
I supposed I don't take it as seriously as others. Sure there are dangers in life. We live near one of the highest crime per capita areas in the country and have a fair share of tragic stupid around us. Darned near everyone I know has a carry permit. Most all of us work where carry is prohibited (schools, govt buildings, financial offices) so you have choices to make and getting fired or changing jobs is not realistic. So you make an informed choice and live life. Worrying about worst case happenings is only going to cause anxiety and paranoia.
My purchasing decisions aren't influenced by worst case scenarios. They're far more inclined to reflect everyday shooting needs, pest control, hunting, etc.
My choice of firearms is not influenced by the possibility that I might find myself in a situation in which terrorists armed with explosives and automatic weapons may attack people. How I might react is another issue.
There seems to be a rather prevalent feeling that "multiple attacks" are rare, or maybe even extreme.
I don't know why. Could it be a form of transference from having practiced only on targets that represent individual people?
Violent attacks are rare. But when they do occur, there is no good reason to believe that they will not involve two or more attackers. And there are compelling reasons to believe that they might.
For those reasons, and because we have learned that the one shot stop is a myth, I do not carry a J-frame.
Back to statistics and likelihood. The probability that a person will be attacked by violent criminal on any one day is far, far less than remote.
Why carry, then?
Well, the probability of being victimized in any one year is higher.
And the way things work, the likelihood that a person will be attacked at least once in a twenty year period is a whole lot higher--it presents a risk that most reasonable persons would choose to mitigate.
There seems to be a rather prevalent feeling that "multiple attacks" are rare, or maybe even extreme.
I don't know why. Could it be a form of transference from having practiced only on targets that represent individual people?
Violent attacks are rare. But when they do occur, there is no good reason to believe that they will not involve two or more attackers. And there are compelling reasons to believe that they might.
For those reasons, and because we have learned that the one shot stop is a myth, I do not carry a J-frame.
Back to statistics and likelihood. The probability that a person will be attacked by violent criminal on any one day is far, far less than remote.
Why carry, then?
Well, the probability of being victimized in any one year is higher.
And the way things work, the likelihood that a person will be attacked at least once in a twenty year period is a whole lot higher--it presents a risk that most reasonable persons would choose to mitigate.
Ernie Bass
member
I know I worried about something last year, but I can't remember what it was.
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mcb
Member
Kleenbore, we might need to put this date on a calendar that first paragraph I 100% agree with. That might be a first for us!
Phaedrus/69
Member
I don't take threads very seriously but I take CCW very seriously. I've had my CCW since long before the internet was a thing outside of Darpanet. Information is a good thing but it can't replace actual real world experience.
Also I take bears pretty seriously. If you live in Chicago obviously you won't take Bears seriously. Same for NYC. But last spring and summer there were four confirmed grizzly bear attacks within 30 miles of my front door and that's just the ones that were serious to get reported. There are plenty of SS&S situations that don't make the news. If you live where there are no big bears (or no bears at all) then there's not much point in wasting any mental clock cycles on the subject. But if you live in western Montana or near the Park in Wyoming then you better give it some thought if you're going outdoors. A pretty good percentage of people that spend a lot of time in the wilderness in these parts have experiences with bears.
Also I take bears pretty seriously. If you live in Chicago obviously you won't take Bears seriously.
Same for NYC. But last spring and summer there were four confirmed grizzly bear attacks within 30 miles of my front door and that's just the ones that were serious to get reported. There are plenty of SS&S situations that don't make the news. If you live where there are no big bears (or no bears at all) then there's not much point in wasting any mental clock cycles on the subject. But if you live in western Montana or near the Park in Wyoming then you better give it some thought if you're going outdoors. A pretty good percentage of people that spend a lot of time in the wilderness in these parts have experiences with bears.
JR24
Member
Interesting thread. My choices aren't influenced by crazy worst case scenereos, be it HD, Carry or Hunting.
I do, however, have a quirk where I prefer to carry what I like to shoot best, or I like to shoot what I carry. Chicken or egg kinda deal.
So that means I like to carry something I also like to shoot a lot, so it's gotta be Glock 19 sized or bigger as I just don't like to shoot smaller guns, so I dress around the gun to an extent and my lifestyle allows this.
Does this decision make my carry gun better suited for "worst case" events, probably. It's a double stack mid sized gun so it's pretty solid for all options.
I do, however, have a quirk where I prefer to carry what I like to shoot best, or I like to shoot what I carry. Chicken or egg kinda deal.
So that means I like to carry something I also like to shoot a lot, so it's gotta be Glock 19 sized or bigger as I just don't like to shoot smaller guns, so I dress around the gun to an extent and my lifestyle allows this.
Does this decision make my carry gun better suited for "worst case" events, probably. It's a double stack mid sized gun so it's pretty solid for all options.
a real concern over a couple of decades.
No one is average.
No one is average.
Where did that come from?
Hopefully. The objective is to stop the attacks.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Well, obviously we all take it all somewhat seriously because we keep, maintain, and carry guns for self defense. We (some of us) then judge those that don't carry enough gun to be unprepared (be it caliber or number of rounds in the gun or on the person). We judge those that carry too much gun(s)/ammo to be fantasy-driven hero wannabe's or paranoid lunatics. To be truly serious, you have to carry what the group think believes is the right amount of gun and firepower. Oh, and you better carry it in a manner the group think approves of or you are being irresponsible.
I liken this back to the discussions of ballistic vests. If you carry a gun, you are prepared. If you happen to also have a ballistic vest, you are paranoid.
No, the little Kel-Tec P32 with randomly distributed non CNS shots probably isn't going to quickly put down the deranged and violent guy on PCP who has decided to fight Satan and that I am Satan. No, my 5 shot Charter Arms revolver isn't likely capable of taking out the team of 9 well armed home invaders that just broken down the front door of my house with a stolen SUV. Those are just risks that I am willing to absorb.
However, as the NRA stats show, having a gun (not even shooting it) stops far more crimes that people who actually pull the trigger. Lots of people win confrontations by pulling the trigger and yet completely missing the bad guys. These are all psychological stops and that seems to be what wins the vast majority of situations. Then another amount of people stop criminals with largely non-lethal hits (despite trying their best to kill the bad guys). Only rarely do non LEOs get involved in prolonged gunfights involving lots of ammo. Yes, it happens, but it happens extremely rarely, but when it does, the really serious people claim victory for their justification of what anyone that doesn't have at least 30 rounds or more on their person at any given time isn't truly prepared.
The reality is that most of us do not attract the kind of attention that would warrant overly high levels of preparation. Most of us are not diamond merchants or the heads of large corporations. There is nothing wrong with amping up your self defense game. The life of a poor guy just scraping by is equal to that of the guys that hold the secret formula for Coca Cola. Do what you think is best for you, your piece of mind, and your quality of life.
(Sigh)..
There have literally LITERALLY! been thousands of shootings that one shot has ended an attack!
A myth? (Eyeroll) its more of a reality than your theoretical scenarios.
I'm done sir! You live in your world ...I'll live in mine!!
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Maybe so. How about those that did not?
I don't worry about worst case scenarios. I'm only one guy and can only do what I can do.
Ok, onetime I was worried. When the doctor told me I only had about 3 months to live. That was in November 2003. I stopped worrying so much sometime in 2004.
Ok, onetime I was worried. When the doctor told me I only had about 3 months to live. That was in November 2003. I stopped worrying so much sometime in 2004.
GunnyUSMC
Member
Aman to that. Back in 2006 my doctor gave me six months or less, it I didn’t start aggressive chemotherapy and radiation treatments. That doctor damn near killed me. I carried a Walther 380 with me every time I went in for treatments.
GunnyUSMC
Member
When it comes to hunting, I carry what is appropriate for the area. When squirrel hunting in south Louisiana a good 22 rifle and a 38 revolver loaded with shot shells.
When hunting groundhogs in Pennsylvania, I like my Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 223 and a Ruger Single Six.
When hunting bad guys in the hood, I carried a Glock 22 with two extra mags, Freeze +P pepper spray, a Monadnock expandable side handle baton, pocket knife and two pairs of handcuffs.
Squirrel hunting was scary.
When hunting groundhogs in Pennsylvania, I like my Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 223 and a Ruger Single Six.
When hunting bad guys in the hood, I carried a Glock 22 with two extra mags, Freeze +P pepper spray, a Monadnock expandable side handle baton, pocket knife and two pairs of handcuffs.
Squirrel hunting was scary.
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