Do you prefer light or heavy bullets in your chosen caliber?

[chaim]

Well, it looks like we are doing another itineration of the ever popular caliber war (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61730 ). Well, it got me thinking. We often rehash our preferences for caliber, but we only occasionally discuss light v. heavy bullets.

This is not a caliber war. I don't care if you think 9mm is best, .45acp is the only way to go or you like the intermediate calibers. What I want to know is if you prefer the lighter weight bullets or the heavier weight bullets in your chosen caliber and why.







My answer is it varies by caliber. I am comfortable with all the major service calibers, but each one has its own strengths and I like to play to the specific strength of each.

9mm: Its strength is it's velocity. It gets much of its expansion from its high speed. Some people go with the heavy 147gr to get more penatration, but then you lose much of the 9mm's velocity advantage. I prefer the light and medium weight bullets in 9mm to get the most out of its big strength (velocity). I am happy with the lighter 115grs but I usually compromise a little and go with the 124/127gr (you don't lose that much velocity and gain some extra penatration).

.40S&W: I no longer own one, but I don't want the heavier bullets here. I want to get some more velocity, but I don't go down to the lowest weight bullets here (I want more sectional density). I like the 165grs here, though I can live with the standard 180s.

.45ACP: This is a big, slow bullet that relies on its weight and size. I don't want to go light and lose some momentum. I prefer the medium weight (185gr) or standard weight (230gr) bullets in this caliber.

.38spl and .357mag: It depends, but for general self defense I like the 158 gr. It gives good sectional density and penatration, and with the more radical revolver HP designs that are possible it relies a little less on raw velocity to get expansion.

So as said before, I tend to prefer the weights that are meant to play to the strengths of the calibers, not the weights that seem to try to make them something they aren't (i.e. that seem to try to make them perform like another caliber).

 

[Alan Fud]

» 9mm: 124/127grn

» .40S&W: 155/165grn

» .45ACP: Depends ...

• 4+ inch barrels: 230grn
• Shorter Barrels: 185grn

» .38Special: 130grn

» .357Magnum: 125/145/158/180grn (too complicated to break down into a list this early in the morning but it depends on the gun (frame & barrel length) and whether the target is a two-legged or four-legged creature).

» 10mm: 200grn (Does anybody know if anyone besides Hornady makes a 200 grn 10mm?)

 

[Jack19]

(Does anybody know if anyone besides Hornady makes a 200 grn 10mm?)

http://www.texas-ammo.com/

From their website:

10 MM (Express). One of our most popular loads are our 10mm (Express). Our goal was to provide a full line of 10mm loads with the power the 10mm was designed for. We have chose the Nosler 135 Grain JHP loaded to 1450 fps for 630 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; a 165 Grain JHP loaded to 1350 fps for 668 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; and the Hornady 200 Grain FMJ-FP loaded to 1250 fps for 694 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle. (Trust me, Texas Ammo may use the Hornady bullet.....but they have a whole other philosophy about the load..... )

As a Note, it seems there may have been some confusion over our introduction of these loads last year. These are 10mm loads loaded to what we describe as our "Express" velocities -- It is NOT a new cartridge. This ammunition can be fired in any modern 10mm handgun, in good condition, and manufactured to handle the maximum levels that the 10mm was originally designed for.

 

[Rhinodogg]

9mm: 124 gr. +P Golden Sabers for carry. 115 gr. value packs and 125 gr. reloads for fun.

.357mag: 110 gr. Cor-Bons for my snubby. 125 gr. Golden Sabers for longer barrels. 125 gr. lead reloads for fun.

.40 S&W: 165 gr. Golden Sabers for carry. 165 gr. value packs and 180 gr. lead reloads for fun.

.44mag: 300 gr. XTP reloads for hunting. 240 gr. SJSP reloads for fun. I may step up to a heavier hard cast bullet for hunting.

 

[Brian Williams]

9mm I like the mid weight in 9mm, it keeps the velocity up there but still has some weight for penetration 124gr +p gold dots

38 spec Definatly a heavy bullet, either 158 LSWC or 150 gr LSWCHP

357mag 2 legged 125 grJHP or 158 LSWC, 4 legged Varmint 125gr, deer 158 LSWC or XTPSP, I also cast my own LSWCgc to 168gr for Deer and above. In my 1894 I use 158gr or above.


40 never had one, never shot one ????????

10mm Who cares it is a blast to shoot. Reality, no real experience here

45 acp 230 gr LRN or 250 gr LFPRN heavy and steady

45 colt 255gLSWC push it baby, even so still slow compared to 9mm and 357


OBTW Jack19 I think Mr Alan Fud is looking for reloading supplies or another maker of 200gr projectiles.........not Hornady

 

[Jack19]

OOps I think you're right.

but I'd still give the Texas Ammo a try.

 

[OF]

Weight is meaningless. Bullet performance is what matters, isn't it? What difference does it make if you get the necessary expansion and penetration performance out of a light bullet or a heavy one? It's the performance that we're after.

That said, it would appear that heavier bullets tend to offer better performance than lighter ones, on average.

- Gabe

 

[foghornl]

In my .45ACP's, defense load is the Rem Golden Sabre 230 Gr.
Vaquero gets fed the Speer 158 Gr Gold Dot
Snubby 38 load is the Fed 110 GR 'Personal Defense' load, NOT the +P.

 

[Werewolf]

I generally use the heaviest bullet available for a given caliber be it a rifle or pistol caliber. There are exceptions:

In 45LC I prefer 200 and 230 over the more common 250gr bullets and never go heavier than that.

In 9mm I prefer 115 or 125 and rarely use anything heavier.

In .45ACP I go with 230

In .40 S&W I go with 180

In 7.62X39 I go with 124

In 30-30 I go with 180

In 5.56 I go with 55

In .22LR I go with 40

 

[Jim March]

It varies by caliber and application.

I think one reason the 9mm works well with lighter rounds is because the nosecone shape needs to make concessions for the feed ramp. That puts a limit on the available hollowpoint cavity width, so you've got to punch it fast to compensate...therefore the 147s fail unless the barrel length is long enough to get 'em up to speed.

Speer is now doing JHPs with VERY fat cavities just for us wheelgunners. First it was the 200grain 44cal "flying ashtray", now they're doing the same in 135grain 38Spl and 250grain 45LC. These are supposed to work with speeds as low as 850fps or less, and will hit their "sweet spot" at 900 - 950.

In cases where plain lead works (38+P, 44Spl) because the speeds are low enough, you might as well run heavies.

But, get above 1,000fps and you need jacketed if you want expansion. Now it depends on "how far past 1,000 are you?" - most JHPs want at least 1,100 and many are tuned for higher, so you've got to go as light as necessary to get the needed speed. That's why we see 110s and 125s in 357. Speer has *again* come through with a 158 that works at 1,200fps or a hair under but that's a fairly recent development...prior to that, 125s or less were absolutely necessary.

 

[only1asterisk]

Bullet performance is what is important to me. As long as the bullet feeds, expands as designed AND penetrates to an acceptable degree 95% of the time, I could care less what it weighs.

However, if I can have all that and choose the weight, I like medium weight bullets pushed a fast as practical.

Theoretical Combinations:

9mm/357 125-130grains @ 1200-1300 fps

40/10mm 165-175 grain @1150-1250 fps

44/45 190-210 grain @ 1100+ fps

Light or heavy? Whatever bullet works better!


David

 

[Zeke Menuar]

38 Special: 158gr +P LHP. I still have some Nyclads around the house. My wife confiscated my 686 as her go-to gun. This is the load she prefers. My 38 Special bumming-around-load is a 140gr hard-cast bullet @950fps.

357 Mag. 125gr Golden Sabres for urban areas. 180 gr Winchester/Nosler JHP or my 180gr Laser-Cast handloads for the woods.

45ACP. 230gr Hyda-Shok for CCW. 225gr Laser-cast loads to mimic hardball ballistics for practice. I like the 230gr weight because that's the way JMB decreed it should be.

270WCF .130gr Hornady Interlock for most shooting. Have six other type/weights for special circumstances. I have hundreds of 130gr SP bullets on hand and they shoot good from the "Tupperware Special"

300 Savage. 165gr Hornady Interlock, most accurate in my M99-R. No other reason. I load for accuracy not speed for this gun.

7.62 x 54R Wolf 200gr Soft-Point. Why? Wolf ammo is $3.95 a box here locally. Can't beat that price and I can't even handload that cheap. The 200gr bullet should stop anything I need to stop at ranges under 100yds.

I don't have a set rule. It depends on the gun and the circumstances.

ZM

 

[chaim]

Oh, it looks like I left something out for my preferences (I did do this very early in the morning). I do prefer the 158gr for .38 and .357, however I am also comfortable with 125gr rounds. I think my pattern is that I prefer the round the caliber was designed around or that has become the "standard" (158gr in .38/.357, 235gr in .45acp, 180gr in .40S&W, and 115gr in 9mm) and the more intermediate weight for the caliber. Sometimes I prefer the "standard" (.45acp, .38/.357) with the intermediate weight my second choice, other times (.40S&W and 9mm) it is the other way around.

In 45LC I prefer 200 and 230 over the more common 250gr bullets and never go heavier than that.

Werewolf, do you have a particular reason for that or is it based on your "gut"? I've just recently started to get into .45LC so I don't know as much about it, or my preferences in it, as I do with some other calibers so I am curious. That said, 200 and 230gr in a .45cal bullet seems to me would be plenty heavy for decent performance (at least for defensive purposes) so on the surface it sounds like a sound plan to me.

 

[clubsoda22]

My load of choice in all of the below caliber guns i own is the Winchester Ranger Talon.

.380: 95gr: Seems to be a good inbetween from the 90 grain and 103 grain offerings fron corbon and remmington respectively. It has good expansion and penetrates well for such a light caliber. The rangers fly at about 1000fps

9mm: 124-127gr: This is again a medium weight bullet. the 115 grain and lower bullets tend to fragment and not penetrate far enough. Any of the superlight loads are a bad choice, i believe corbon's 90 grain load only penetrated 5 inches of bare gelatin. The 147 grainers are solid performers, but don't expand as well as the 124-127 grain variety and some say penetrate too far. The rangers i use are 127gr, most others like the gold dot are 124. I like it hot; +P+ all the way. Interestingly enough, this was the weight the 9mm's were when luger invented the things.

.40: 165gr: Once again, mid range. same reasons as the 9mm. the 135 grain and lower bullets tend to fragment and not penetrate far enough. The 180 grainers are solid performers, but don't expand as well as the 165 grain and some say penetrate too far.

.45: 230gr: Time tested, just like the 124-127gr 9mm. With the slow .45 i want as much mass as possible for optimal penetration. Add a little +P and i'm very happy, but i wouldn't subject my dads series 70 1911 to that, so standard pressure is how i go. If i had a sig/hk/modern 1911/etc i'd go +P. the standard pressure rangers do about 880fps, which is still enough punch to get the job done and then some.

 

[Werewolf]

Werewolf, do you have a particular reason for that or is it based on your "gut"? I've just recently started to get into .45LC so I don't know as much about it, or my preferences in it, as I do with some other calibers so I am curious. That said, 200 and 230gr in a .45cal bullet seems to me would be plenty heavy for decent performance (at least for defensive purposes) so on the surface it sounds like a sound plan to me.

I prefer the 200 and 230 gr over 250 or heavier because I get more velocity with less powder and less recoil.

For example with 8 grs of Titegroup and a 200 gr LRNFP I get around 1025 - 1065 FPS out of a 5.5" BBL Ruger Vaqero and around 1350 FPS out of my Win 94 AE with 20" barrel. There is almost no recoil with that load in the rifle and the recoil out of the Ruger is light compared to a standard 45 LC load. The 230 is heavier recoil and lower velocity but not by much. When I get up to the 250 gr bullets and drive them at the same speed the recoil is more than I want to deal with for fun.

The 230 are a bit more accurate than the 200's (I think this is because the twist rate in my 45LC guns may be a bit on the slow side for that small of a bullet).

I shoot paper only but would have no qualms about using either of the above loads as a deer killer at 100 yards or less. As a defensive round I believe either would be superior to the 180gr bullets I use in my .40 S&W.

Be advised that I am in the minority of 45 LC shooters as most prefer heavier bullets. Most 45LC shooters use the 250 or above. Cowboy action shooters use the 230 but mostly 250 with light powder loads and MV's of 700 to 800 FPS. Hunters use bullet weights all the way up to 350 but those are high powered loads suitable only in guns like Ruger or T/C or Lever guns like the 94 models from Marlin or Winchester that can handle pressures up to about 29,000 PSI (SAAMI specs for 45LC ore 13,500 PSI).

I believe that originally the 45 LC was designed with a standard bullet weight of 250gr and MV of around 900 FPS.

 

[agtman]

Alan Fud:

For "heavy & fast" 200gn 10mm loads check out:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/main_site/index.html

http://texas-ammo.com

A review of TA's 200gn loads:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=84117

 

[orangeninja]

My 2 cents

9mm = 147gr.

.40 = 180

.45 = 230

yep...I like my bullets like I like my women. THICK!!!

 

[Majic]

On the average I prefer the heavier bullets for a given cartridge.

 

[Ala Dan]

I prefer Federal's 230 grain JHP "Hydra Shok's". Wonder why?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[JohnKSa]

I tend to go with mid-weight to light for self-defense ammo and heavy for hunting ammo.

So, in .357--with choices of 110gr, 125gr, 158gr and 180gr--I'd pick 125 for self-defense and 158 or 180 for hunting.

In 9mm--with choices of 90gr, 115gr, 124gr, 147gr--I'd pick 115 for self-defense and some other handgun for hunting.

In 10mm with choices from 135 to 220 it would be around 180 for SD and 200 or up for hunting.

 

[chaim]

Thanks Werewolf. I just got my first .45LC gun (a Winchester 94 AE carbine) and I can't wait to experiment with different options and reload different loads to really get to know this caliber. I also can't wait to get a wheelgun to go with the rifle (hmm, modern or Cowboy style...).

yep...I like my bullets like I like my women. THICK!!!

alduro, if you currently have a girlfriend or wife I hope she doesn't look at this site

 

[tc300mag1]

I prefer mine heavy 230 in 45 240-300 in 44 etc etc

 

[Dr.Rob]

It depends.

While I usually 'load heavy' almost all the data i've seen about the 9mm 147gr subsonic leads me to stick with a 1100-1200 fps light wieght bullet.

9mm=115 gr Silvertip or PMC Starfire.

357= 158 gr sjhp. I tried some Remington factory 125gr fodder... that stuff was so hot my magnum Carry nearly leapt out of my hand.. that's too much oomph for a snubby, might be just fine in a full sized pistol. meanwhile I'll stick with a 158 swc over 6 grains of Red dot as my plinking fodder, a 158gr Hydrashock or Norma 158gr sjhp as a defensive/woods load. If I was carrying a bigger hammer, like a full sized vaquero or blackhawk I'd opt for the 180 gr sjsp (or opt for the 357 max)

357 max. I have both 158 gr and 180 gr factory loads, the 180's seem to have a little less muzzle climb and a more downrange power. 180's win out as a hunting load to me.

45acp: 230gr hydrashock (though I did once come up with a scary fast 200gr fmj flatpoint... if I was restricted to 'ball ammo" I'd load up more of these or get federal's 230 gr EFMJ.

44 mag: 240 gr. (Though my dada and his crazy handgun hunting buddies created a 300gr Hornady xtp doublecrimped compressed hunting load) the 240 gr sjsp is a fine bone buster from a handgun.

 

[SapperLeader]

I definitely tailor the load to my individual gun. For example, my xd's shoot gold dot 124 extremely welll, and im upgrading them to 124+P. My star bm shoots winchester jhp 115gr. My s&w 642 shoots winchester 130+p, and my keltec p-32 dynamit novel 73gr fmj. I dont go for light or heavy per se, but look at what loads are recomended for each gun than make the descision.

 

[cratz2]

I guess I'm a 'middle of the roader' when it comes to handgun bullets. I prefer 124-127 Grs in 9mm, 165 Grs in 40S&W and 200 Gr in 45ACP. For defensive purposes. For hunting, I would prefer heavy for the caliber bullets until you get up over 30 caliber. I mean, in 25-06 or 270, I'd rather have 120 and 150 Gr bullets respectively but in 44 Magnum to 45-70, a through and through is a through and through. At least here in Indiana.

I also think psychologically it makes more of a difference in the smaller handgun calibers. I mean, when I think of a 44 Magnum, I think a 200, 220, 240, 250 or 300 Gr bullet is going to make a pretty big hole but the super high veolicty RBCD, Glasers and the very light weight CorBons in 32, 380 etc... I just don't have as much faith in those.