I started reloading 270 Winchester ammo in 1953 and since them started reloading handgun and shotgun ammo. So I spend whatever times it takes to get the rifle and hand gun accuracy and shot gun patterns I like. Before I get any firearm I try to read about the brand and model and do not get a new firearm model when they first come out. Whenever I get a rimfire rifle or handgun I get various brands and bullet weights to find which is the more accurate ammo. Should I miss a shot when hunting I then know that its me and not the ammo or firearm.
Do you spend as much time choosing the ammo as the gun
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Skylerbone
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I put far more effort into ammo selection than firearm selection. As a rule, a design is a known quantity be it a G17 or a Colt 1911 the quirks, limitations and whatnot have been expounded upon at length. When it comes to my specific example, focus shifts to ensuring that whatever ammo I choose is first completely reliable. Considerations beyond reliability can be worked out by customizing a load for those specific bullet profiles with proven feed ability.
I don't care whether it's factory or not for SD, most times it isn't but I do like knowing what will do in a pinch. Ideally any firearm I choose to own will be corrected to function with anything it can be loaded with, if not, ideally it gets sold off.
I don't care whether it's factory or not for SD, most times it isn't but I do like knowing what will do in a pinch. Ideally any firearm I choose to own will be corrected to function with anything it can be loaded with, if not, ideally it gets sold off.
Vodoun da Vinci
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http://www.gunbot.net/
I rarely buy ammo anymore but buy factory ammo for members of our support group when they borrow one of mine to shoot. I recover the brass to reload to my specs.
When I *do* buy factory, i never buy it locally anymore as usually you only get what they have (which may be cheap or not exactly what I want) or it might be expensive. I buy all ammunition and reloading components (including tools/dies) online. This way I have a choice and can shop and compare prices.
VooDoo
Wow I can't believe people don't pay more attention to their ammo than what I'm seeing here. Every gun is different and you have to find what works best for each individual gun if you really want to get the most out of your gun. And those that just buy any ammo for protection really baffle me. Do they not know that some ammo might be so inaccurate in their gun that they can't hit anything with it and that the price or the reputation of the ammo has very little to do with that?
I probably spend more money on test ammo than I do my guns. I buy a gun and I buy all kinds of ammo to test in it. I will find what is consistently accurate then compare those types to see which is the most effective in doing damage to my targets. I have various ways of testing that.
I wouldn't dream of just using any old ammo that I find on sale for self defense. We're talking about betting your life on this stuff. If you are looking down the barrel of a gun and you decide you can get to your gun and shoot back you dang sure want it to hit what you're shooting at and you want it to do damage when it does.
I do this with all my guns. I want the most accurate ammo for my rifles just as much as I do my handguns. I have all kinds of half full boxes of ammo that didn't work out laying around. Sometimes I shoot it up just plinking just to get rid of it.
I see people talking about guns not being accurate. I think I know why they are getting bad results to be honest. Remember that the best thing you can do for accuracy is to work up the best load for your gun. I don't depend on reloads for self defense though. Actually I don't reload at all but I know that all top shooters work up the best loads for their guns. I know that even with the ammo that's best for my guns the lot them come from matters. Sometimes it makes a huge difference.
I spend far more time and money on ammo than I do guns. I thought everyone that knows what they're doing does this. I guess not. I guess they don't know what they're doing when it gets right down to it. Ammo matters a lot. It probably matters more than anything else.
Usually from a LGS but often from an online seller. It depends on what I'm looking for. Lately it's hard to find what I want anywhere except online. I just bought a couple of boxes of Black Hills ammo for my Savage 12. I bought it from Midway. You buy more ammo and the shipping rates become reasonable. Often I buy more than a couple of boxes at a time. But I really didn't need a lot of ammo. It was a birthday present this time. My wife tells me to pick out what I want and order it so that's what I got. I hadn't seen Black Hills ammo in the LGS I generally buy from in over a year. But I still had a good size stash of it. Buy it cheap and stack it deep. I got what I just bought at pre-panic prices or close to it. It was maybe $2 more a box than I bought it for before the panic. That's hard to beat.
I probably spend more money on test ammo than I do my guns. I buy a gun and I buy all kinds of ammo to test in it. I will find what is consistently accurate then compare those types to see which is the most effective in doing damage to my targets. I have various ways of testing that.
I wouldn't dream of just using any old ammo that I find on sale for self defense. We're talking about betting your life on this stuff. If you are looking down the barrel of a gun and you decide you can get to your gun and shoot back you dang sure want it to hit what you're shooting at and you want it to do damage when it does.
I do this with all my guns. I want the most accurate ammo for my rifles just as much as I do my handguns. I have all kinds of half full boxes of ammo that didn't work out laying around. Sometimes I shoot it up just plinking just to get rid of it.
I see people talking about guns not being accurate. I think I know why they are getting bad results to be honest. Remember that the best thing you can do for accuracy is to work up the best load for your gun. I don't depend on reloads for self defense though. Actually I don't reload at all but I know that all top shooters work up the best loads for their guns. I know that even with the ammo that's best for my guns the lot them come from matters. Sometimes it makes a huge difference.
I spend far more time and money on ammo than I do guns. I thought everyone that knows what they're doing does this. I guess not. I guess they don't know what they're doing when it gets right down to it. Ammo matters a lot. It probably matters more than anything else.
Usually from a LGS but often from an online seller. It depends on what I'm looking for. Lately it's hard to find what I want anywhere except online. I just bought a couple of boxes of Black Hills ammo for my Savage 12. I bought it from Midway. You buy more ammo and the shipping rates become reasonable. Often I buy more than a couple of boxes at a time. But I really didn't need a lot of ammo. It was a birthday present this time. My wife tells me to pick out what I want and order it so that's what I got. I hadn't seen Black Hills ammo in the LGS I generally buy from in over a year. But I still had a good size stash of it. Buy it cheap and stack it deep. I got what I just bought at pre-panic prices or close to it. It was maybe $2 more a box than I bought it for before the panic. That's hard to beat.
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GBExpat
Member
I don't "train".
Relative to the ammo, my approach is KISS.
For 9 & 45 I will mostly shoot milsurp ball that I have stockpiled. I reload my own carry ammo and, so far, use loads that are about the same as the milsurp that I shoot so that I don't have to be concerned with differences in experience.
For 7.62x25, I will shoot milsurp ball that I have stockpiled. For defense purposes, I replace the bullet in S&B Ball that I bought cheap a decade ago with Sierra soft points. Works great!
wally
Member
Nope not even close, I found a good deal on Win Ranger T-series in "Law Enforcement" 50 round boxes years ago and stocked up.
I worry about, and work a lot more on, my ability to put a round where it'll to the most good with whatever gun and ammo I've decided to carry.
Bullet placement, placement, and penetration are the three most important factors in handgun effectiveness.
I worry about, and work a lot more on, my ability to put a round where it'll to the most good with whatever gun and ammo I've decided to carry.
Bullet placement, placement, and penetration are the three most important factors in handgun effectiveness.
Lex Luthier
Member
The real question is "How much time do you have to spend on everything? If guns, ammo, and shooting are the only thing you ever think about, go ahead. I would wager most of us are blessed with a wider range of healthy interests.
Certainly ammo selection is important, but the choosing a weapon is more important. Some guys spend an inordinate amount of wasted time on seemingly paramount details that they could have figured out organically going with the flow in the first place.
As always, there is a usually delicate, though occasionally obsessive/ compulsive balance between effort and outcome.
Certainly ammo selection is important, but the choosing a weapon is more important. Some guys spend an inordinate amount of wasted time on seemingly paramount details that they could have figured out organically going with the flow in the first place.
As always, there is a usually delicate, though occasionally obsessive/ compulsive balance between effort and outcome.
Right. And the #1 factor in accuracy is using the right cartridge. Us obsessed types know that.
Seriously if you haven't noticed that some ammo works better in your gun than other ammo you just haven't paid attention. It isn't a process that takes years or anything. It takes about a month for me to work out what's best for my guns when I buy them. And it's terrible hard work all that shooting and stuff. I need to get a hobby. Wait! I think I have one!Seriously if you aren't testing to find the right ammo for your gun you are likely not getting near the effectiveness you could be from that gun. Some types of guns are less affected by ammo choices like shotguns but even those have ammo that works better than other ammo. The difference just usually isn't as stark.
Handguns especially are very much subject to being ammo affected. It can be the difference between hitting a human size target and missing completely. I mean there can be a "lot" of difference. I would have thought everyone knew that. Not all handguns are affected tremendously by ammo. But some it means the difference between a 5 inch group at 25 yards and a 2 foot group at 25 yards. Seriously.
Skylerbone
Member
I:
Work 40+ hours/week, am raising 3 children ages 5-10, coach Dad's Club soccer and basketball, participate in Scouts and PTA, fish, hunt, boat, paddle, shoot traditional bows, do extensive woodworking and home improvement, garden, work on my own vehicle,am an avid reader, participate on forums, huge movie buff, swim, bike, exercise, travel, shoot several thousand rounds/year AND find time to reload for all of my centerfire cartridges on single-stage presses.
There's more but the long and short of it is we devote time to what is important. If accuracy matters, reloading is a no brainer. It isn't terribly time consuming and results are worth the effort.
Work 40+ hours/week, am raising 3 children ages 5-10, coach Dad's Club soccer and basketball, participate in Scouts and PTA, fish, hunt, boat, paddle, shoot traditional bows, do extensive woodworking and home improvement, garden, work on my own vehicle,am an avid reader, participate on forums, huge movie buff, swim, bike, exercise, travel, shoot several thousand rounds/year AND find time to reload for all of my centerfire cartridges on single-stage presses.
There's more but the long and short of it is we devote time to what is important. If accuracy matters, reloading is a no brainer. It isn't terribly time consuming and results are worth the effort.
Are you kidding??? This is the day and age of any ammo that you can lay your hands on as long as you can make it fit in the gun. Reloading? Yeah right. Perused the Cabelas or Midway reloading sites lately?
The antis have thrown in the towel on gun control. It's all ammo control today. I have no idea how our ammo manufacturers are playing into all this but they are darn sure playing into it.
The antis have thrown in the towel on gun control. It's all ammo control today. I have no idea how our ammo manufacturers are playing into all this but they are darn sure playing into it.
montanaoffroader
Member
^^^What he said. I am lucky to find any ammo at all here, much less a selection of different loads to try out. I reload, but some components are tough to find right now.
I'm in pretty good shape for reloading the .357's and the rifles, not so much on the 9mm and 380. So most of my shooting is with wheelguns these days.
chris in va
Member
I only buy guns I can reload for, preferably cast. I sold my AK and got an AR for this reason.
Skylerbone
Member
Well Big Sky, you'll be pleased to know that at MidWay alone there are 30+ types of bullet for 9mm in stock, 4 varieties of brass as well. Dies from numerous companies are also available and as primers and powder are available to me locally, I will remain convinced that said same are also available online for purchase. If you wish for objections, you may be certain that nothing comes from doing nothing.
I had, but continued to purchase components to load for .357, .38 SPL, 9mm, 30-06, 40 S&W, 5.56, .223 and .45ACP throughout the "drought". Having a larger footprint helps as something is bound to be in stock but I'd wager an hour on my phone could net me all the reloading supplies I need.
I had, but continued to purchase components to load for .357, .38 SPL, 9mm, 30-06, 40 S&W, 5.56, .223 and .45ACP throughout the "drought". Having a larger footprint helps as something is bound to be in stock but I'd wager an hour on my phone could net me all the reloading supplies I need.
Ed Ames
Member
As far as reloading goes, I know someone who started reloading about a year ago. He had nothing. No powder, no press, no experience...started at zero. He has now loaded over 1000 rounds, and from the sound of it he has supplies for a lot more. That's all buying from places like Midway, Cabela's, and local gun stores.
Ammo still isn't as varied as I'd like but apart from .22 magnum I can go into a store and buy just about anything I could buy pre-panic.
Ammo still isn't as varied as I'd like but apart from .22 magnum I can go into a store and buy just about anything I could buy pre-panic.
I don't obsess over ammo choices I try to find something from one of the LE surplus outlets so I can afford to buy enough to test reliability and accuracy and leave me with enough to shoot whats been in the gun every so often and reload it with fresh.
For practice I use reloads that mimic carry ammo. For this I do spend some time with load developement.
For practice I use reloads that mimic carry ammo. For this I do spend some time with load developement.
huntsman
Member
In my perfect world fantasy I'd be able to head down to the LGS buy Remington Express .380, .45acp for $15.00 a box, practice and carry the same cartridge.
The best I've paid for .380 Express was $22.00 a box in 2012, I bought 5 boxes and shot two so far in my LCP, I shoot up the mags of carry ammo once a year and always shoot the chambered round when practicing so my 3 remaining boxes are slowly dwindling down.
FWIW I can see a difference between UMC and Express in report and shell ejection so I do believe the Express to be "hotter" than UMC and worth more in price, the question I struggle with is how much more?
The best I've paid for .380 Express was $22.00 a box in 2012, I bought 5 boxes and shot two so far in my LCP, I shoot up the mags of carry ammo once a year and always shoot the chambered round when practicing so my 3 remaining boxes are slowly dwindling down.
FWIW I can see a difference between UMC and Express in report and shell ejection so I do believe the Express to be "hotter" than UMC and worth more in price, the question I struggle with is how much more?
This ammo shortage has got to be a controlled shortage. If they just put it all out, after 2 weeks people would stop hoarding it, and prices would fall. This seems exactly what the ammo company's don't want to happen, when you can almost double your bottom line by not working, it seems like a no brainer.
Blue Thunder
Member
And when I find the stuff that is tested, tried, ands true for my guns I get it in quantity. See attached pictures. One is 1500 rounds of Ranger T 127GR +P+, the other is a nice selection of other ammo that also works well in my guns. I bought before the rush in 2008. I have over 1000 pounds of lead, primers, powder and brass to make RangeAmmo with.
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Lucky Derby
Member
Good grief.
I typically use whatever brass cased ammo I can find for practice. I'm a little more picky for rifles than handguns, but not terribly so.
For defense I use a premium HP of some sort that I have tested for function & accuracy in the gun in which it is to be carried. Rarely does anything fail function. Nothing I have tested failed accuracy. Rest assured, if I'm carrying it, I can hit what I want to hit.
Once function is assured, "shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin."
In other words, the minute differences just don't matter in the real world. Sure on the range they do. And can be a lot of fun, if that is your interest, and have the time & money for it.
Lots of people are in graves that were put there by the simple .38 LRN, or something even "less effective."
I typically use whatever brass cased ammo I can find for practice. I'm a little more picky for rifles than handguns, but not terribly so.
For defense I use a premium HP of some sort that I have tested for function & accuracy in the gun in which it is to be carried. Rarely does anything fail function. Nothing I have tested failed accuracy. Rest assured, if I'm carrying it, I can hit what I want to hit.
Once function is assured, "shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin."
In other words, the minute differences just don't matter in the real world. Sure on the range they do. And can be a lot of fun, if that is your interest, and have the time & money for it.
Lots of people are in graves that were put there by the simple .38 LRN, or something even "less effective."
So the rest of us are just chopped liver I guess. I can shoot quite well thank you. If you think there's no accuracy difference in ammo I have doubts about your ability to shoot accurately at anything more than a few feet away. Most defense situations occur within a few feet. But certainly not all of them.
I found this in an article in Guns And Ammo. I suggest you take it seriously.
"Just changing ammo can have a dramatic effect. For instance, many .45s don’t like GI-issue ball. I’ve switched to commercial loads (Federal, Winchester or Remington) and watched groups shrink by half."
Then there's the guns that are used for hunting. They certainly need to be as accurate as possible especially if you're shooting more than a few yards. The difference between putting a bullet in a squirrel's ear at 50 yards and missing that squirrel completely will almost certainly be affected by ammo to one degree or another. And yes I have put a bullet right behind the ear of a squirrel at 50 yards. I didn't aim for the ear. I aimed behind it because that's where the brain stem is. The difference between the ammo I used and something like Remington Golden bullets could easily have been six inches or more. I've won 15 out of the last 17 rimfire competitions I was in. And accuracy does make a difference in real world shooting. It's the difference between dinner and missing a squirrel with the wrong ammo.
Don't know why getting snippy, I know I've shot a ton of factory golddots, ranger Ts, golden sabers, HSTs and Hydra-shoks out of a bunch of guns and have yet to find one that didn't produce more than acceptable accuracy.
I mean these companys spend a ton of $$ on development to make this happen.
ETA Rimfire is a whole nother animal
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Buzznrose
Member
I spent more time and research on finding the right ammo than the right gun. In all honesty, I think that's a more important consideration. Most modern handguns made by any reputable manufacturer (way too many to list) will most likely work just fine. Most cartridges will do the job just fine.
However, there are a lot of different philosophies regarding what you want your ammo to do, and there is a lot more hype around different types of ammo. I think there's also a big difference between some ammo brands and others in terms of reliable expansion (whereas with most firearms, you have a decent reputation of working).
However, there are a lot of different philosophies regarding what you want your ammo to do, and there is a lot more hype around different types of ammo. I think there's also a big difference between some ammo brands and others in terms of reliable expansion (whereas with most firearms, you have a decent reputation of working).
Lucky Derby
Member
I never said that.
I said the differences in premium ammo accuracy are so minsucule in the real world-ie:a civilian self defence shooting, as to be unimportant.
We'll just have to disagree on that point. Maybe what I consider accurate is not the same as what you consider accurate. I want my SD handgun to be able to hit center mass consistently at 25 yards at the very least. I've seen more than a few premium ammo types fail at that in individual handguns and all guns are individuals. I really hope to see accuracy at 50 yards and I get it from some of my handguns. I've seen more confrontations between drivers on the road than anywhere else in the last 30 years. Trust me that a slight difference at 10 yards becomes a huge difference at 50 yards when someone is shooting at you from another car. And it does happen. It happened right behind my daughter's house not too long ago. I came up on the arrest scene for the group of drunken illegals that had been shooting at any car that tried to pass them even though they were driving about 15 mph. They chased people and shot at them. I want something that will hit what I shoot at if I get in a situation like that. I have one handgun that will hit center mass at 175 yards. That's accuracy. I have another that shoots about a 2" group at 50 yards. That's pretty accurate too. But it certainly takes the right ammo to accomplish that kind of accuracy.
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