Do you use FCD for lead semi-auto pistol loads?

[LiveLife]

I just performed a test using a brand new set of 45 ACP Lee dies, the deluxe model. I just couldn't see how so many could be reaching the same conclusion that was opposite to mine. Mine being that a standard size bullet in a normal casing would not result in the bullet area touching the sizer ring of the FCD.

... 200 grain cast lead SWC bullets ... sized to .452". Then the FCD was used to provide a .470 crimp. I noticed a LOT of drag as the sizer ring passed over the bullet, I could even feel each of the driving bands as it passed over them. I then pulled several boolits, using a hammer inertial puller. One was at .450, two were at .451!

... jacketed bullet is .451" ... [X-Treme] 200 SWC plated bullets @ .451". These presented less force to size/crimp than the lead.

My mind is changed! I claim to be open minded, I guess that now and then you have to prove it.

Thank you for the first-hand verification using new dies and bullets. BTW, nice looking bullets from the new mould!

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

A little help here - have read the thread (and others related to FCD), and as someone planning to start reloading lead in 45ACP soon, this is directly relevant to my situation.

So the bottom line here is that the FCD is problematic for .452 lead because it resizes (smaller) the bullet in that last step?

Follow-up: is it an option, if one wants to avoid this problem, to just omit the FCD step, i.e. remove it from the turret? Doesn't the bullet-seating die itself crimp the case, making the FCD optional, no matter what bullet one is loading?

I had thought the FCD was a sort of fail-safe back-up device, to ensure that the rounds were sized to Factory Max. for semi-autos - the Lee manual and reloading book themselves state that properly sized rounds will not touch the FCD. So if your third die (bullet seat/crimp) is working properly, the FCD is redundant (the "FCD is a solution looking for a problem" idea offered by several experienced reloaders on these threads).

 

[cfullgraf]

Follow-up: is it an option, if one wants to avoid this problem, to just omit the FCD step, i.e. remove it from the turret? Doesn't the bullet-seating die itself crimp the case, making the FCD optional, no matter what bullet one is loading?

Most, if not all seater dies have a crimping ring machined into them. So, you can crimp on the bullet seating step.

Some seater dies have roll crimps, some have taper crimps so one needs to verify what crimp has been machined into the die. I know RCBS makes two seater dies for 38 Special, one has a taper crimp, the other has a roll crimp. But in general these days, auto pistol seater dies will have taper crimps and revolver seater dies will have roll crimps.

Many, including me, prefer to crimp in a separate step. Adjust the seater die so that the crimp ring has no effect. Seat the bullet as normal and then move to the crimp die.

The crimping part of the Lee FCD could substitute for the separate crimp die. But, you always have the sizer ring in play in the FCD. I am in the camp that feels the Lee FCD is a solution looking for a problem.

Lots of folks swear by the Lee FCD though.

 

[snuffy]

Follow-up: is it an option, if one wants to avoid this problem, to just omit the FCD step, i.e. remove it from the turret? Doesn't the bullet-seating die itself crimp the case, making the FCD optional, no matter what bullet one is loading?

16in50, yes and no, sometimes. Hows that for wishy-washy? In the test above, I did try to adjust the seater/crimp die to do both. Won't work!:banghead: The crimp has nowhere to go, it's starting to crimp while still on the front driving band of the bullet. Result is a ring of lead is sheared off the front driving band. I strive to make great bullets, I sure don't want a portion of the front driving band gone. To say nothing about that sliver of lead getting blown down the bore, OR being left behind in the front of the chamber to cause jams.

The ONLY answer is to crimp as a separate step. It's a no brainer for a four station classic turret or my 5 station dillon 650. IF you have a lead bullet with a crimp groove, OR a jacketed with a cannelure, THEN it's very possible to seat & crimp at the same time.

 

[LiveLife]

I seat and taper crimp in one step using Lee dies. The key is using the right amount of taper crimp in respect to the bullet diameter. Most case walls are .010" in thickness. So for.452" diameter lead bullets, .472" taper crimp (.452" + .020") will straighten the flare of the case neck without shaving lead from the side of the bullet. Some really tight chambers may require taper crimp of .471"-.472". For me, .471"-.472" taper crimp won't shave the bullet unless a particular case has thicker than typical case walls.

Doing a drop test using the barrel out of the pistol will tell you how much taper crimp you need to use for your barrel's chamber.

I often see reloaders posting that they use .469"-.470" taper crimp without specifying the bullet diameter. I use .470" taper crimp for jacketed bullets, but there's no worry of shaving lead off the side of the jacketed bullets. Of course, if you are seating and taper crimping in separate steps, even using .469"-.470" taper crimp won't shave the side of lead bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

There is so little bullet seating movement while the .45 seater applies the proper taper crimp, that with the majority of bullets seating and crimping together works quite well. Naturally if you use a crimp only die in after seating there is no worry at all. I have seen a lot of way over crimped .45's.