Do your coworkers or boss engage you in gun rights or gun control debates?

[Olon]

Background: I personally feel it is a good thing to be open about my hobbies and interests in firearms. I'm a firm believer that the more gun owners out there who demonstrate a reasonable and friendly demeanor, the better off we are as a community. I know not everyone will agree with that, and that's fine. I tend to be friendly but professional with my coworkers and bosses, and in general I avoid people in my day to day life, but am not shy about interacting with strangers when the occasion arises that is appropriate. I typically wear an HK or a Ruger hat, and gun people notice, but non-gun people have no clue. In fact even gun owners have asked me what HK is. If a coworker asks me what I did on the weekend, and I was shooting or reloading, I tell them and don't really sweat it. In fact it has spurred some interesting conversations over the years.

My career is in natural resource management, so naturally it tends to draw in a lot of hunters, outdoors people, and gun owners. Getting things done during hunting season can be challenging because everyone is out looking for their buck or their elk, or turkey, or lion, or antelope, or................... I also live in a very red state, so guns are everywhere here. In fact I'm guessing there are more guns in my town than people.

Recent Interaction: So the other day I hit and maimed a large whitetail buck, who was on the scent of a doe, with my pickup truck. Or rather, he ran into me and killed himself like an idiot. $5500 worth of damage, and an animal that was dying in agony was the result. So in the interest of not allowing an animal that is clearly suffering to continue suffering, I resolved to put in earplugs and put him down with a shot behind the ear. By the time I walked back across the highway to do the deed, he was already gone. I checked by putting a hand on him to feel for breathing. Not a twitch, so at least he didn't suffer long.

So after walking into work on Wednesday, my boss came and saw me, who is a very liberal woman, and who actually had the nerve to tell me how I needed to vote during the last presidential election. I was blown away by that, and I could have filed a complaint, but I decided to just ignore it. This individual is a loud mothed bag of wind, with an ego the size of Manhattan, and with such poor leadership skills, she couldn't lead a group of starving people to a Vegas buffet. She isn't anti gun per say, but she has the typical flawed logic that comes from non gun owners that some inanimate objects are evil, and the constitution doesn't really matter.

So she asked what happened, and I told her. Then she asked me if I killed it. "No not outright." Then she asks if I shot it. I calmly told her I intended to put him down but didn't have to. She actually said "Good for you, because I couldn't do it." Ok........... I decided not to touch that with a ten foot pole. I just responded "Yeah, it's certainly better than using an axe, or cutting its throat. For me firearms are primarily sporting equipment, but they are a very useful tool when you need one."

I thought that was that, but then she proceeds to say "Well, I'm not anti-gun! I just don't think people should be able to own AK47's. Everyone says the bad guys have them so we need them too, but I just don't agree." I changed the subject immediately because one, I don't feel gun debates belong in the workplace, and two, this woman views every conversation as a debate and confrontation, so I didn't feel the need to waste my time. I got the impression she wanted to continue that discussion. I had work to do though, and really don't like my boss enough to have a personal conversation with her. I am praying she retires.

So it made me wonder, how many people on THR are open about their gun ownership in the workplace, and for those that are, have you ever been engaged by a coworker or boss on a gun rights issue?

I do realize that by being open about my interests that I invite opinions and possible conflict, but in a professional setting, I don't feel debating with a coworker or employee is appropriate about any sensitive topic.

The other side of the coin is that if I choose not to engage with my coworkers on anything but work, then I'm viewed as cold and distant, and I've been told that my business like attitude is intimidating. Umm, so I'm required to share my personal life to avoid hurting the feelings of the warm and fuzzy folks? People are such a pain in the ass.

Man, sorry you have to deal with that crap. My boss does bring it up but it's a different situation. There's a sign out front that says "this property protected by second amendment security" and there's a M1911 behind the front counter. Not to mention we've all got sharp knives in our hands (it's a butcher shop). No safe space for employees to go cry; just as it ought to be. I wish more places were like it.

 

[jmorris]

I asked if THR members are open about gun ownership, and if so, do their coworkers or bosses try to engage them in gun rights issues or debates....

However, the person I described makes my life at work a living hell.

And that is why I find common ground vs arguing about something where I won’t budge.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

And that is why I find common ground vs arguing about something where I won’t budge.

Yes sir. I try to see the other's perspective and have a reasonable discussion, and I'm perfectly fine agreeing to disagree. I do tend to just change the subject with my coworkers because honestly I don't feel debating about anything should happen with them except how to execute our working group's objectives. However the person I described is not reasonable and has no interest in other people's perspectives. She cares about winning, being "right", and inflating her ego. It's obvious in everything she does.

I'm just curious if others encounter gun debates at work. This isn't the first time she's bated me.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Ive been at my current workplace over a decade- and I'm the only one who has lasted more than 3 years. My business is largely about back stabbing and internal politics and power struggles. Ive survived this long by keeping my doing my job well enough to avoid notice by the current management, and not engaging the endless string of short timer coworkers who pass through any more than necessary- especially the women. Couldn't tell you half of their names- there's really no point in learning them.

I do have a couple buddies I shoot with, but everyone else might get a "'Good Morning." That's about it.

 

[EIB0879]

I'm curious.. how did you react to this after they said that in front of the executives? Just in case I run into the same situation at some point.

I never denied it or made excuses for my beliefs. There was no overt reaction but who knows what went through their heads. I was good enough at my job that no one above me wanted to make it an issue. And I outlasted the people (some peers) that tried to make it an issue.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I had a co worker who would try to debate gun control and gun rights all the time.

He would wait for another publisised Mass shooting and try to heckle me into debate.

Only person i have ever seen make jokes about "high scores" and Mass shootings.

He would site some bs debunked stats, i would refute it and explain why that is bs.

He would try logic... But time and time again we proved (together lol) that there is no logic behind gun control. Just control.

Then he would just start with the propaganda talking points. I would crush him on those.

Then he would say stuff like "people caught with ghost guns should be killed on site". That was a lengthy one.

Really weird guy. Duck hunter, too.

Wanted "assault weapons" banned but couldn't define what that was.
Bragged about his standard capacity mags (13 round Ruger mag) which are frowned upon out here but was convinced that those mags should be confiscated.

He was walking talking hypocrasy. He knew it but for some reason he was exempt.

He also didn't believe in the 1st amendment and thought violence against some one for their speech and ideas was okay.

Strangest person i ever worked with.

He was fired for performance a few months ago. I think that it had a lot to do with how he treated other Co workers. I never complained about him but he was terrible rude and inappropriate to other people.

 

[jmorris]

However the person I described is not reasonable and has no interest in other people's perspectives.

That’s common for people that don’t know what they are talking about or just set in their ways.

Why I don’t tend to argue with anti gun people that don’t know anything about guns. They are ignorant on the subject and I am too old to change my opnion on the subject.

 

[Officers'Wife]

The only discussion at work I've had with an employee had to do with a gentleman that liked to take potshots at deer from an open tractor door. He talked about his rights while I filled out his final paycheck.

 

[FL-NC]

No. I don't debate my beliefs, especially with someone who can't affect the outcome. Waste of my time.

 

[BigBore44]

I guess I’m just open. I don’t hide who or what I am. But I also don’t push myself or my beliefs on others. I will listen to, converse with, or debate anyone, coworker, boss, about anything. I welcome conversation. And I have never really had a bad conversation with a coworker or boss. I’ve actually had some great conversations about firearms, politics, and even religion with them. I don’t think you have to agree to have a productive work relationship, or even friendship.

Edit: I think we should engage people. Even if we don’t agree. Let them see who we are as people first. I have found that, as much as anything, can help defeat preconceived misconceptions. Live by the Golden Rule. I’m a firm believer in that. However, turning the other cheek.....? Not so much.

 

[LiveLife]

Wait a minute.

Isn't free society where free people are allowed the freedom to think and freely talk with each other so we can freely exchange ideas to perhaps learn from each other without restriction or censorship? Isn't that what freedom of speech is about?

As a government worker, believe me we are pounded into our head by management the necessity of workplace civility, political correctness, equal treatment of others without discrimination and pursuit of team work in order to fulfill our duties as required by department policies and state/federal laws.

So when I am approached by female coworkers who are dying to share their latest diet trend (Last one was keto), I evaluate whether I am offended or made uncomfortable and let my coworkers know how I feel in response to them exercising their freedom of speech. If I am offended or made uncomfortable due to the fact that I am now part of a protected group of older God fearing minority, they are to stop talking to me further.

But being a team player and work resource person who likes potlucks (food sharing), I voluntarily participate in the "nutrition data sharing" with my coworkers and discuss how we can modify our food share items to better accommodate new diet trends. I love steaks and BBQ but respect the beliefs of vegetarians/vegans and have made vegetarian/vegan versions of Gumbo, noodle dishes, curries and dumplings etc. to their delight for our food shares. Well, all these food shares must have worked as I have lost 20 pounds since last year and have kept it off while I continue to enjoy Tri-tip, braised steaks and meatballs.

Conversely, I bring up the virtues of single and partnered female independence and ways to further enhance that independence. I data share with them what guns did to equalize men in the past and how guns can equalize women's capacity to defend themselves against violent attacks so they won't be another victim, rather a defender of freedom. Instead of food shares, we have range days where we freely share guns we own so they could try out different models to determine what they like. I also data share proper usage of guns and shooting tips (like how we share recipes and cooking tips at work) so they can be proficient in making holes on paper. To see my vegetarian/vegan coworkers point shoot confidently and proudly conceal carry brings not only big smile to my face but a twang to my heart as they rapidly produce double taps at will and mag dump like there's no tomorrow - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902245

Of course, if a coworker expresses offense or feeling uncomfortable, I immediately stop in accordance to department policy and pursue "safe" topics we can freely discuss without offending anyone.

But the vegetarian/vegan coworkers are quite persistent and use peer pressure to "enlighten" the offended coworkers that we are simply encouraging them to exercise their right to independence and self protection. They cite reasons why they attend the gym/taebo/zoomba/kickboxing/self defense/martial arts classes and use of guns is simply an extension of weapons training. Well, if use of gun comes from fellow vegetarians/vegans, they are not offended at all and show curiosity (Just imagine a small vegan talking about totally ripping multiple targets with speed and precision) to join them on their next range session, which I gladly accommodate as I don't want anyone "left behind". I tell you, it's true democracy at work ... but I keep quiet about my opinions on Democracy vs Constitutional Republic until it is safe to talk about that topic (After they become supporters of the Second Amendment).

To those compelled to keep silent at work, consider this.

How would you respond if your coworker asked you how to change tire or jump a dead battery because they want to learn and these are life's essential skills? Well, if you care about your coworkers, you would share with them your knowledge of changing tire and using jumper cables. I have taken the same approach with my coworkers. I tell them I care about them being able to defend themselves (Believe me, it's not a hard sell. They are afraid of violent attacks every day, especially if they are single).

Sharing with them my knowledge of guns, gun handling and shooting accurate and fast defensive drills has brought the harshest liberal feminists to tears in show of gratitude for a "gun toting" conservative married guy. And once they master the art of defensive shooting drills including point shooting (Did I mention they are persistent?), they become new spokespersons for Second Amendment and right to self defense to all of their friends and family.

My liberal thinking self righteous sister who is 5' 4" and slender was not fond of guns but got married and had kids. When she had an encounter one night with a homeless person who tried to break into the house, everything changed. She came to my house, demanded I take her to the range and she shot all of my guns. She said she liked how M&P40 shot and felt with small grip insert and insisted I sell the gun to her. I told her, "You could buy a new gun" but she told me, "This one is broken in and shoots accurate for me and I need something that works NOW." After the 10 day waiting period, M&P40 became a constant companion to her at home and office. She shot regularly and now competes in matches usually outshooting most other male competitors.

My sister since has introduced many of her friends and clients to gun ownership and host range sessions to teach them the virtues of self defense which she now considers one of essential "life skills".

 

[Speedo66]

I worked 40 years in LE for a state agency in NYC. All the sworn officer staff re-qualified every year, carried on the job, and were able to carry off duty with arrest powers throughout the state.

Being NYC, some were not really gun people, but there was no anti-gun sentiment. Quite a few were into guns, and occasionally a group would go shooting together, especially when re-qual was imminent.

Conversely, we had a few "Bumpers", total gun nuts who only wanted to talk guns ad nauseam, to the point of being unable to speak about anything else. One in particular was very opinionated, but wasn't even often correct about gun facts. Having never been in the military he was convinced he was a real "operator", despite the fact that he was grossly overweight, and being horribly out of shape, could barely walk without wheezing.

So these things can go both ways.

 

[hso]

Discussions, not really debates. Most coworkers know I'll research a firearm or help them find one or take them shooting if they're curious so I'll be asked about details on some issue or legislation because they also know I'm involved in efforts to protect the 2A.

 

[WestTexShooter]

I, for the most part, think politics - religion - discussion of intimate topics are out of place at work.

But if I am engaged in a civil conversation about firearms, I try to avoid the subject of guns and steer the issue towards the Bill of Rights.

As an example, one time the notion of waiting periods was being talked about. I steered the conversation towards waiting periods on the Bill of Rights without those countering me realizing it.

Basically, “so you have no problem with a reporter having to wait 3 days to print story until it is reviewed by a government official?” Or, “before someone can openly pray in church, you think there should be a 3 day waiting period?” Shock, dismay, bumbling. “No, that is not what I said!” Actually it IS what you said.

They tend to look at the floor and with hanging shoulders, limp away.

 

[P5 Guy]

Nope and worked to avoid it when I was employed.
The Hank Earl Carr rampage that took two Tampa detectives and one Pasco deputy had me being harassed for being an NRA member. And folks blaming me and my type for the deaths.
Every place I worked outside of NJ my co workers knew I shot in competitions but I never debated/discussed the political aspects of firearms owning.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Wait a minute.

Isn't free society where free people are allowed the freedom to think and freely talk with each other so we can freely exchange ideas to perhaps learn from each other without restriction or censorship? Isn't that what freedom of speech is about?

As a government worker, believe me we are pounded into our head by management the necessity of workplace civility, political correctness, equal treatment of others without discrimination and pursuit of team work in order to fulfill our duties as required by department policies and state/federal laws.

So when I am approached by female coworkers who are dying to share their latest diet trend (Last one was keto), I evaluate whether I am offended or made uncomfortable and let my coworkers know how I feel in response to them exercising their freedom of speech. If I am offended or made uncomfortable due to the fact that I am now part of a protected group of older God fearing minority, they are to stop talking to me further.

But being a team player and work resource person who likes potlucks (food sharing), I voluntarily participate in the "nutrition data sharing" with my coworkers and discuss how we can modify our food share items to better accommodate new diet trends. I love steaks and BBQ but respect the beliefs of vegetarians/vegans and have made vegetarian/vegan versions of Gumbo, noodle dishes, curries and dumplings etc. to their delight for our food shares. Well, all these food shares must have worked as I have lost 20 pounds since last year and have kept it off while I continue to enjoy Tri-tip, braised steaks and meatballs.

Conversely, I bring up the virtues of single and partnered female independence and ways to further enhance that independence. I data share with them what guns did to equalize men in the past and how guns can equalize women's capacity to defend themselves against violent attacks so they won't be another victim, rather a defender of freedom. Instead of food shares, we have range days where we freely share guns we own so they could try out different models to determine what they like. I also data share proper usage of guns and shooting tips (like how we share recipes and cooking tips at work) so they can be proficient in making holes on paper. To see my vegetarian/vegan coworkers point shoot confidently and proudly conceal carry brings not only big smile to my face but a twang to my heart as they rapidly produce double taps at will and mag dump like there's no tomorrow - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-help-me-speed-up.824618/page-4#post-10902245

Of course, if a coworker expresses offense or feeling uncomfortable, I immediately stop in accordance to department policy and pursue "safe" topics we can freely discuss without offending anyone.

But the vegetarian/vegan coworkers are quite persistent and use peer pressure to "enlighten" the offended coworkers that we are simply encouraging them to exercise their right to independence and self protection. They cite reasons why they attend the gym/taebo/zoomba/kickboxing/self defense/martial arts classes and use of guns is simply an extension of weapons training. Well, if use of gun comes from fellow vegetarians/vegans, they are not offended at all and show curiosity (Just imagine a small vegan talking about totally ripping multiple targets with speed and precision) to join them on their next range session, which I gladly accommodate as I don't want anyone "left behind". I tell you, it's true democracy at work ... but I keep quiet about my opinions on Democracy vs Constitutional Republic until it is safe to talk about that topic (After they become supporters of the Second Amendment).

To those compelled to keep silent at work, consider this.

How would you respond if your coworker asked you how to change tire or jump a dead battery because they want to learn and these are life's essential skills? Well, if you care about your coworkers, you would share with them your knowledge of changing tire and using jumper cables. I have taken the same approach with my coworkers. I tell them I care about them being able to defend themselves (Believe me, it's not a hard sell. They are afraid of violent attacks every day, especially if they are single).

Sharing with them my knowledge of guns, gun handling and shooting accurate and fast defensive drills has brought the harshest liberal feminists to tears in show of gratitude for a "gun toting" conservative married guy. And once they master the art of defensive shooting drills including point shooting (Did I mention they are persistent?), they become new spokespersons for Second Amendment and right to self defense to all of their friends and family.

My liberal thinking self righteous sister who is 5' 4" and slender was not fond of guns but got married and had kids. When she had an encounter one night with a homeless person who tried to break into the house, everything changed. She came to my house, demanded I take her to the range and she shot all of my guns. She said she liked how M&P40 shot and felt with small grip insert and insisted I sell the gun to her. I told her, "You could buy a new gun" but she told me, "This one is broken in and shoots accurate for me and I need something that works NOW." After the 10 day waiting period, M&P40 became a constant companion to her at home and office. She shot regularly and now competes in matches usually outshooting most other male competitors.

My sister since has introduced many of her friends and clients to gun ownership and host range sessions to teach them the virtues of self defense which she now considers one of essential "life skills".

Excellent points and very well thought out. There are a few things I'd like to emphasize.

While freedom of speech is very important and should not be infringed, workplace harmony or at least functionality is paramount to any employer. So just as my stance with carry rights go, I do believe their house, their rules.

I had a situation where two employees got into a very heated debate. The topic is unimportant, but what is important is that the debate lead to a yelling match between them and a harassment complaint. Once an official complaint like that comes in, my life becomes very interesting and unproductive. Emails, phone calls, and interviews start to happen. I as a supervisor then start getting evaluated on how I handle it. What's more the problem is my working group now has an enormous amount of discomfort and angst over what's going to happen. It's confidential info, but in cubicle land the tension is palpable. This wasn't the first incident either.

I believe strongly in the constitution but in this case I had to sit both employees down and tell them directly I didn't want to hear about any more political debates happening and if any more conflicts arose due to that behavior, there would be repercussions for damaging morale and productivity. So I had to make it a performance issue. I felt horrible telling them that, because I don't run my group as a dictatorship. We are a team. However I was totally within my rights as their boss to limit a behavior that has a negative effect on performance and on professionalism standards. I even talked to management several tiers above my boss and at the regional level to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules by doing so. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.

I guess my point is workplace discussions that are just that, a discussion, are not a problem in my eyes. Even a spirited debate is not necessarily bad. I mean it's hard not to get close with some coworkers especially if you work in a small town and office. But you better keep it civil and you better know your audience.

My question in this thread is really more based in the curiosity of "engagement" on gun rights debates. When I say engagement I mean these people want to debate what American rights should and shouldn't be. I just want to know if folks have similar things happen to them that I have had happen.

My boss views arguments as a competitive sport and enjoys pushing people around. She has bated me several times and tried to get me talking on the subject. I refuse and feel THAT type of discussion doesn't belong in the work place because we are there to work. With her, every conversation is bordering on harassment, and she has had several official complaints filed against her.

 

[jmorris]

Isn't free society where free people are allowed the freedom to think and freely talk with each other so we can freely exchange ideas to perhaps learn from each other without restriction or censorship? Isn't that what freedom of speech is about?

Freedom allows one to waste lots of time doing useless or even harmful things. Knowledge is what keeps us from doing so.

Pretty sure by the OP’s own admission that not talking about certain subjects, with the coworker that has turned is job into “hell”, would have been the better idea. Despite his freedom to do so.

 

[dh1633pm]

I work for a very pro 2A company. From the owner on down. We even have work teams that compete at skeet.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Pretty sure by the OP’s own admission that not talking about certain subjects, with the coworker that has turned is job into “hell”, would have been the better idea. Despite his freedom to do so.

For clarity, this is my direct supervisor.

And also, I never start these conversations with anyone really. I'm just open about my interests. If someone asks, I'm just honest.

I don't think anyone should have to hide who they are with their coworker or boss, and as stated I've been told several times that I'm too business like and intimidate people. So I'm trying to be a bit more open and interactive with the people I work with and for. I had no idea how touchy feely people are. Apparently you have to engage in pleasant small talk before talking business. Gets old.

 

[jmorris]

And also, I never start these conversations with anyone really. I'm just open about my interests. If someone asks, I'm just honest.

Nothing wrong with that.

In my life I have learned discretion or the ability to not cause undo disruption in things I want to go smoothly.

So, if I am ready to go and my wife asks me how her dress looks, the answer is “fantastic”. That may or may not be 100% honest but the end justifies the means as they say.

If your wife asks you if a dress makes her look fat and it does, you can be honest or say something that will make you both happy.

 

[LoonWulf]

I have firearms and related stickers all over my vehicles... Along with monster stickers, and fishing stickers, and other stickers......I like stickers.

I've always worked with fairly "liberal" coworkers and management. It nearly always comes up, and I've never had a negative conversation in regards to firearms yet.
I'm nice to everyone, and generally the reciprocate. If someone disagrees with my stance on something im happy to discuss both my beliefs, and theirs. The worst I've ever heard is that they really dont support my belief. No ones ever been rude, condescending, or offensive.

I also generally feed them stuff I've killed.....some eat, some don't.... Some wait till the second or third time everything gets et before they try some.

I've had one very liberal manager tell me I could store my rifle in my office (required by state law) after a discussion where I mentioned I'd have to drive 20miles the wrong way to get it from my dads house before going hunting.

 

[Old Dog]

I've also found that even some liberals who may not be generally in favor of guns in their homes or workplace ... invariably end up saying things such as, "It's good to know that there are gun-owners like you, normal, intelligent people" or "When the zombie apocalypse comes or the riots and looting start, I'm coming over to your house, 'cause I know you're prepared." And they're not always joking ...

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

I work for a large engineering and construction firm. For awhile, we were (and may still be) on certain target lists for things we did in Iraq to help out. So people are not real fond of guns where I work. And we have people in our office from all over the world-very few of them understand or care about 2A unless they become naturalized. So I tend to not bring the issue up, because I value my paycheck. However, I do not shy away from discussion if approached, and more often than not my colleagues are surprised by my input (reasonable, measured, fact-based, etc) and I can usually make a few friends in the process. I’ve taken a couple non-gun work friends shooting, with great success.

That being said, I live in Texas. I know who my gun buddies are at work and we yak it up like we should. Guns, huntin’ stories, pictures, training, builds, and all that.

Good times.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've also found that even some liberals who may not be generally in favor of guns in their homes or workplace ... invariably end up saying things such as, "It's good to know that there are gun-owners like you, normal, intelligent people" or "When the zombie apocalypse comes or the riots and looting start, I'm coming over to your house, 'cause I know you're prepared." And they're not always joking ...

I had a friend tell me something similar. After a mass shooting last year he proudly told me took his little girl to a rally designed to do away with magazines over 10 rounds, and that he doesn't think people should be able to keep pulling the trigger and shooting 30 times. I asked him if he realized I could probably inflict just as much harm with a pistol if I had enough loaded magazines on my person because I know how to reload quickly.

Then I asked him how small of a magazine should I get to own? He responded with "But you're normal." I responded with "How do you know? And who decides? If you're going to limit the rights of law abiding citizens to try and take care of a fraction of a percent of the population that has bad intentions, what other rights do you want to take away?"

He acknowledged the slippery slope and poor logic of calling me normal. But we were in a bar and both acknowledged a more dangerous n depth and sober discussion was what was needed.

He I enjoy having talks with, because he listens and it's an actual discussion.

 

[LiveLife]

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