DOA pistol discussions

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Hunter2011

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DAO pistol discussions

Hi everyone. I just want to learn a thing or two about DAO pistols.
Currently I own only SAO pistols. The only pistol I have that does have a double action feature is my PT709. It is a SA pistol all of the time. It only gives a DA trigger pull if the shot did not go off, and when you practice dry firing without racking the slide.

Questions.
1. Modern SA pistols are drop safe, because of firing pin blocks etc.
Does DAO pistols even have a firing pin block? (I don't see the need as the striker is never cocked.)
2. Besides manual external safeties, what other internal safeties do you find on DAO pistols, if any?
3. How drop safe are DAO pistols? The reason I ask this is, are the firing pin on DAO pistols not ''resting'' on the primers? On SA pistols the firing pin is not near the primer.
4. I think my next pistol must be DAO. The DA trigger of my PT709 is very nice, and I could easily have lived with the pistol if it was DAO.
What nice full size pistols are DAO?
They must sport a manual external safety.

I now know all about my DA/SA PT709, everything about how it works, its safety mechanisms, etc. Now I want to learn just as much about DAO pistols as well.
Thanks guys.
 
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I know of no DAO pistols that don't have a firing pin block drop safety. The statement that the hammers or strikers are never cocked is not quite correct. This is true for some, but many of them do have partially cocked hammers/strikers. They are still DAO, however, as pulling the trigger does provide some cocking action.
 
A true DAO pistol does indeed leave its hammer at complete rest between shots, and the trigger stroke carries it all the way back before releasing it.

A hybrid DA pistol leaves its hammer partially-cocked after a slide-cycle, and the trigger stroke drives it the rest of the way rearward before releasing it. These guns typically cannot "try again" if the hammer falls on an empty chamber (or dud round) without the hammer being re-set manually first.

The Taurus PT709 seems to be a bit of both worlds. I don't own one, so I can't say how it works. I'd be interested to learn more; it's a handsome gun.

No, the firing pin of a modern pistol does not rest on the primer. Most have floating firing pins that are driven forward by the hammer/striker, then rebound back to a recessed resting position. In some designs (and in theory), a hard drop of some of these guns could cause, by way of inertia, the pin to be propelled forward far enough to reach the primer. But the vast majority of guns has a firing-pin travel distance too far for this to happen, in addition to having a firing pin block.
 
Dead On Arrival pistol discussions? What an interesting idea. That is quite different from Double Action Only pistol discussions.:evil:

The Mods can fix that for you Hunter2011.:)
 
I'm working this out in my mind, but it seems like you couldn't have a pin resting on primer without the gun having a huge potential to slam fire. There would have to be some strong spring with a short stroke pulling the pin back off of the firing pin a bit.
 
MedWheeler said:
A true
The Taurus PT709 seems to be a bit of both worlds. I don't own one, so I can't say how it works. I'd be interested to learn more; it's a handsome gun.
Click to expand...

Hi Medwheeler.
The PT709 turns into a SA pistol as soon as you chamber a round, and after each shot. Only when you hear a click, and the cartridge has not gone off, the trigger pull becomes DA. That is nice because them you can fire again, with a good chance that a second strike will let the gun fire on the ''dud'' round. It will then become SA again as soon as the cartridge goes boom. Or when you rack the slide to chamber a new round if that round is indeed a dud.

As nobody suggested a full size DAO pistol, it seems they might not exist?
Now to me it looks as if they only make small pistols DAO, like a Ruger LC9 for example. Are there no bigger DAO pistols than LC9's out there?
 
Hunter2011 said:
Hi Medwheeler.
The PT709 turns into a SA pistol as soon as you chamber a round, and after each shot. Only when you hear a click, and the cartridge has not gone off, the trigger pull becomes DA. That is nice because them you can fire again, with a good chance that a second strike will let the gun fire on the ''dud'' round. It will then become SA again as soon as the cartridge goes boom. Or when you rack the slide to chamber a new round if that round is indeed a dud.

As nobody suggested a full size DAO pistol, it seems they might not exist?
Now to me it looks as if they only make small pistols DAO, like a Ruger LC9 for example. Are there no bigger DAO pistols than LC9's out there?
Click to expand...
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=120358

Here's an ok thread on the pros and cons of a DAO handgun. It also lists a few models as example.
 
< Deleted >

I don't know everything about all firearms, hence the reason for joining a forum. I know the difference between all the systems, but I don't yet know everything there is to know about all the different systems.
I know everything about my striker fired SA/DA pistol. But I don't know as much about DAO pistols than what I know about my SA/DA pistol.

How boring would any forum be if nobody asked stupid or interesting questions? I also think that not everyone on any forum already knows all, so whats the hurt in asking? BTW I did a search before I started a thread.
And I think my question in number 3 is very appropriate.
 
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I know everything about my striker fired SA/DA pistol...
Click to expand...

You do? That's good. Aside from the Walther P-99 and its variants/descendants, I can't think of any other striker fired DA/SA gun, but it's 2:30 am, so maybe that's why.

What DA/SA striker fired gun do you own?
 
David E said:
You do? That's good. Aside from the Walther P-99 and its variants/descendants, I can't think of any other striker fired DA/SA gun, but it's 2:30 am, so maybe that's why.

What DA/SA striker fired gun do you own?
Click to expand...
It is 9H48 am at the time of posting this, so I am wide awake.
Taurus PT709
 
David, Taurus offers SA/DA striker fired pistols that are not DA/SA. They lack a decocker, so they're SA (or maybe light DA) striker fired pistols that also have full DA capability. Taurus advertises this as a second strike capability.

Hunter, I can't think of a single modern hammer fired pistol that doesn't use an inertial firing pin, or of any striker fired pistol that doesn't retract the striker at least slightly to prevent it from contacting the primer. With an inertial firing pin, the firing pin is shorter than the firing pin channel, wherein the hammer strikes the firing pin and through inertia the firing pin continues to strike the primer. Whether striker or hammer fired most of these have a striker or firing pin block (the internal hammer Kel-Tec P32 and P3AT are the only modern DAO pistols I can think of that lack a firing pin block).

There may be a few DAO pistols with manual external safeties, but they're rare, because it's beyond overkill. The long discontinued Beretta 92DS is the only example I can think of.
 
Taurus, eh?

That explains it! (I don't follow Taurus designs very closely)
 
Good call Fishbed. I forgot about the Kahrs with thumb safeties and loaded chamber indicators so they could pass the consumer product safety regulations is states like CA, which use such regulations not to increase safety, but to antagonize gun manufacturers. Seecamp also makes a California edition with a manual trigger block safety integrated at the top of the trigger.
 
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