Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by mushu, May 28, 2019.
Sounds a lot like what I use to do on a lot of those autumn hikes in the backwoods.
The only thing I find prohibitive in CC my .45 Blackhawk convertible is the weight.
I have a holster that keeps gun up and close to my side so its not awkward to carry.
if I only had one handgun it would be the Blackhawk and I wouldn’t hesitate to still CC.
I am continually amazed at the number of people who don't blink an eye at carrying a 5-shot J-frame S&W in the pocket of their cargo shorts, and if they even have a reload it's a speed-strip, but they go apoplectic over someone competently carrying a single action loaded with 5 rounds of 44 Special, 44WCF, or 45 Colt. Then there's the newer designed SAs like the Rugers that safely carry 6 rounds. Still they think the guy with the Chief's Special is better off. Good grief!
Maybe more time with it will persuade you that they can be quite fast and effective.
I can't image any sane person enjoying being in a deadly force situation. But a qualitative disadvantage? I guess that really depends on who's faster and more accurate.
I don't think anyone has suggested this is about range shooting or cowboy action shooting. But I think a few people have mention, or quite clear stated, that it is about how quickly someone can get the gun into play, and put accurate shots into an attacker's vitals. Don't move the goal posts.
You clearly have some very strong feelings on what is right and wrong for you. That's good. Other's feel differently, based on their own experiences, of what is right and wrong for them. The two things can exist in mutual exclusivity.
As to the effectiveness of a single Action, and its ability to get it into action and get off shots, I'll relate this incident that happened to me years ago.
I was fishing with a couple of friends down in southeast Georgia. I was carrying a Colt Frontier Scout .22, as we were in snakey country. It was late evening and we were about to wind up and go home. I was standing on the creek bank when I saw a half sheet (4' x 4") of plywood slowly floating down the creek. Coiled up in the middle was a big ol' cottonmouth! I pulled that little Colt and nearly cut its head off with one shot. But as I fired there was a commotion on the bank just to my right. Another cottonmouth had fallen off the undercut bank and I killed it with a hasty second shot. A third suddenly squirmed between my feet and I shot it with a third shot. It was right under my feet and my bullet nearly took its head off and blew a hole in the soft mud and stuck the remainder of its head down into the hole. Mud and water geysered up several feet and rained back down on me.
I had shot three mean tempered cottonmouths with three quick shots, and with no other handgun could I have done any better.
Wow that was three close calls there!
I had a Colt New Frontier .22 years ago and I remember that the action on it was super smooth right out the box as was the trigger.
There are better choices if sustained firepower is your primary goal, but I am going to claim that it is hard to beat the compact package, along with the power of the cartridge, that a SAA provides.
Colt Single Action Army pistols, and their replica's are very compact for their caliber. Yes, you would have to carry five, with the hammer down on an empty, for safe carry with the original lockworks. But, you will have five rounds of 45 LC, and that big soft lead bullet has to mean something. I am a righty, and my cyclic rate, thumb cocking with my left, is well within recovery times. While I own several USFA's, I do not carry them as a primary arm, but, I have fondness for them, consider them obsolete, but not a ridiculous choice.
I've been known to drop a J-frame in my pocket more than a few times, a convenience thing on a hot day when it's difficult to get away with anything bigger, but if something started to unfold I'd much rather have any big single action.
I've been carrying this SA .45 cross draw for a few weeks. Five 255 grain LSWC's.
You can run that little J frame one handed pretty quick.
SA rev you can run one handed and I bet it's slower and a bit sloppy.
Better to go two, if right handed, hold and shoot right, thumb left. Can run em pretty fast that way, and accurate.
Like me a J frame just fine. Am pretty quick w a speedloader too.
Just never as fast or as effective as with my Citadel 3.5cs, Glock 19 or S&W Model 65.
I'm certain that under precisely the right circumstances, a Sopwith Pup could prevail over an Su-34. I wouldn't advise the RAF to ditch its Typhoons in favor of rotary engine biplanes.
Like most guys here I've got numerous handguns single actions, double actions, semi-autos. S&W's, Sigs, Colts, Rugers, Berettas, Glocks, etc.
These two are my most carried however.
Charter Arms Bulldog .44 spl (shot shells for the pit vipers)
Shooting two handed, cocking with the off hand, takes up too much time and requires the gun to be too high, nearly at eye level. Also requires that the off hand be unoccupied.
Such stance and cadence is fine it the range is out far enough and time permits deliberate aiming.
I carry a single-action .38 spl from Cimarron with 4 3/4" barrel in truck, tractor, and when hiking/camping. Used the gun for a while and feel comfortable with it. Its fairly light-weight, reasonably accurate. Mostly outdoors and not concealed.
Took my CC class with a short-barreled Ruger Security Six shooting single action using 2 hands. Was the only one with a revolver. Outshot everyone in class. Not that I'm that good, they were that bad. I've been shooting Security Sixes for over 30 yrs. Most of them had either borrowed a gun or had just bought one and had not shot it til class. Best to stick with what you know and practice enough that it all comes automatically.
The Security Six was a good gun, which I like better than the GP100. I had 6" when I was in the Army in the '80s. Back then female MPs who couldn't handle M1911s were issued .38 Special Police Service Sixes.
I wouldn't hesitate to carry a Security Six, Speed Six or Police Service Six for self-defense. Given any choice at all, I'd never carry any single action gate loading revolver for self-defense, including my own Cimarron Frontier.
If you're carrying a J-frame, it's good that you're confident in it. A while back I was shooting some fairly fast double action groups with a Chiefs Special and a friend said that those groups were just as good as what I could do with the six-inched barreled L-frame with the same target loads. He was right, but he didn't account for the difference in time.
See Bob Wright's post #80 about the snakes to get a picture of what a master can do with a single action. It's easy and understandable to pick up an old single action, shoot it a little, and imagine no one could handle it as well as something newer. Years with the single action make a difference.
In the end, it's the man and not the gun. If Bob Wright had a rock and I had a rifle and he were mad at me, I'd find business in the other end of the county real quick.
I'm so glad you said this. I saw the video with the little girl from Gunsite, who taught this left-handed cocking technique. After shooting the single action as many years as I have, it wouldn't have mattered to me if it was better. It was too late for me to change habits ingrained over multiple decades.
Emptying a single action fast enough never seemed to be a problem. Sure, If I'm shooting a group on a single target, I'm faster with a double action, but if it's on separate targets the time difference is reduced. If the targets are spaced enough that I might have to do some significant shifting of my body, I probably wouldn't lose a fraction of a second with a single action.
I do like my SR40 but i prefer a snub nose revolver for C.C. SP101 is my favorite
a couple of favorite single action ccw pieces: bond arms derringer 9mm (just as often carry the b.a. in 410/45lc or 357/38sp), naa survival 22lr. i wish that i could ccw beloved ruger blackhawk convertibles in 45lc/acp or 357/38/9mm but wouldn’t work in my locales.
I grew up shooting Ruger single actions.
Am not good but am no slouch either.
I'd not pick one for self defense against 2 legged varmints.
My J frame would slide right into my jeans pocket (carpenter type).
Bobbed hammer people if they ever looked down in, proly thought it a flip phone.
Nice rig, shot decent (once I learned how to run it).
With the changes in my town, six shooters are out of the lineup.
Even my single stack auto is.
Gotten bad. I need something to carry more often, that holds more.
For defensive shooting, do not think in terms of groups. What is important is the balance of speed and precision.
Usually, precision should be sufficient to say within the area of the upper chest.
Speed? One really should avail oneself of some good defensive pistol training . One will need to shoot a whole lot more rapidly than most people imagine.
Now that's one sweet looking, short barreled single action revolver that is just the right size for concealed carry!
Sometimes I like to step out in my backyard and shoot various handguns or light rifles. I've got a bullet trap with about a two by three foot opening. The most distance I can get is from my upstairs bedroom window, which will give me thirty-five yards. The trap is a safety thing, and also because I'm cheap. It lets me save the lead, keeps my hand in shooting and entertains me.
I suppose any top trainers would be decent and try to help me improve what poor skills I brought to them to work with, but I can just almost hear one muttering, "Old boy needs to learn to run the hundred six or seven seconds faster, and it would help if he could see well enough to know the difference between a sharp modern combat sight and the tiny things on an original peacemaker or World War One 1911, or if he could grip the gun without shaking with an arthritic tremor.
True training would just document the decline and confirm that, yep, the arthritis and the eyes are worse this year than they were last year. Those slots in a training program would see better use than what I could do with them. Were I to go to town and show up at a military recruiter's office and volunteer my services, he'd want to kick my ass for the impertinence. I wouldn't be worth the food they expended on a recruit
With what resources I have left, I'd rather expend them on being dropped into the wildest piece of wilderness I can find and just living. Most of what I can put into pistol shooting these days goes toward what I see as the most likely thing to come up, which is being out working on the farm, and having a close in chance to head shoot a rabbit or a squirrel, when I know the rifle is out of reach. I tend to use a handgun with fair frequency to supplement my diet. If defensive use is always possible, I do everything I know to keep the possibility as remote as I can.
For what it's worth, I agree with you that a quick hit somewhere in the chest cavity should be the initial goal in a defensive situation--that is If I'm correct in understanding your meaning and haven't misrepresented your thoughts.
Actually "a" quick hit somewhere in the chest cavity may suffice sometimes, but often it may not.
Hitting something critical within the envelope is very much a matter of chance, and several quick hits are recommended.
Considering that the advancing target may be moving at around 5 meters per second, that he will be very close, and that the stop will not be instantaneous, that means several very quick hits.
We learn those things though education, and we learn how to do it through training.
My arthritis, bad knees, and neuropathy make additional training a non-starter at this point.
I still suspect without knowing you that you'd be a formidable opponent.
I agree more than one hit may be called for--or it may not. I've seen eight hundred pound animals drop like they were hit by a truck with one hit from a .22 revolver. I've also seen large animals soak up multiple 45-70 hits without any immediate conclusive evidence that they were touched. The necessity of multiple hits is highly likely with anything in the handgun power range, but when you fire that second time no matter how fast. you're going to need to articulate why you did it, and in a manner that will convince a reasonable man with no background in the subject--of course if you hesitate, that pause that's just a little too long, the need to articulate anything may disappear very quickly.
The only thing I've seen that reliably stops with such decisive thoroughness that it's immediately clear nothing further is required is a load of heavy buckshot at close range.
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