Does having a CCW automatically waive your right to consent for a search

[NMGonzo]

Not in new mexico.

Since one does not need a permit to CC while in a vehicle, I would not volunteer the information unless asked.

 

[SHvar]

I agree completely with your attitude being a big determining factor when you are pulled over.
Out of courtesy you inform the officer.
If you go about life with an attitude your wait along that road may become alot longer and more expensive. If you go about life with the attitude that everyone is out to violate your personal rights you will spend alot of money on lawyers. That by the way is also your right.

 

[CCWB]

Just exercise common sense even if you bust a fart trying to muster up some common sense. If the LEO is being nice, be nice in return. If the LEO is being a jerk..... Be nice in return. If you have nothing to hide, let them search and go on about your day. If you feel unsafe, ask for another officer, but be ready to face an escalated situation from the LEOs standpoint.

 

[Deanimator]

If you go about life with an attitude your wait along that road may become alot longer and more expensive.

My "attitude" is that EVERYONE needs to obey the law. There's no exception for LEOs.

I do what's REQUIRED by law in any interaction with LEOs, nothing more, nothing less.

The LEO has a choice. He can either accept that as required by law, or he can himself violate the law because I obeyed it. I guarantee you that's not going to work out for him any more than my attempting to fight him or flee will work out for me.

 

[Deanimator]

If you have nothing to hide, let them search and go on about your day.

That's a FAIL of such biblical proportions, its failure should be announced in Charleton Heston's voice as Moses.



If they had probable cause, they probably wouldn't ask. I have nothing to hide. I have my dearly won Constitutional rights to PROTECT. Letting any LEO who wants to, walk all over the 4th Amendment is a slap in the face to the founders and every soldier, sailor, Marine and airman who ever died to defend the US Constitution and the freedoms it protects.

Want to search? GET A WARRANT.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

You can be compelled to produce your permit when asked for it by a LEO and in some cases reveal whether or not you're carrying, and even relinquish your sidearm for the duration of the traffic stop. But does having a permit cancel your other rights under the 4th and 5th Amendments to the Constitution? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

 

[luigi]

If you have nothing to hide, let them search and go on about your day.

The ignorance is strong in this one

 

[jim4570]

I have had my concealed carry license since shortly after it became available in Kentucky. I have been pulled over twice, once for expired tax ticker on my plate, (which I had paid for, and put on the plate, and I can only assume were stolen) and once for blowing past a unmarked car that I still think was driving dangerously slow as he came off the exit ramp and into traffic, not that I mentioned that to him.

In both cases I had my license, and wasn't carrying. In neither case did I have to get out of the vehicle, or was even asked for my license. In Kentucky you only have to provide that license if requested by the officer. In both cases once my license or my plates were run the officer knew that I was licensed. It never came up.

If I had a pistol in the glove box, along with my registration and insurance card then I would have said something only when he asked me for that paperwork. I be in following the law, and would provide the license upon request, or if I believed that it would be in my best interest in dealing with the officer.

 

[coloradokevin]

The first few posts really answered this question quite well. But, just to throw in a few things that were brought up in the thread:

1) Colorado doesn't require you to notify the officer of the gun, but as an officer I recommend it whenever you've been detained by an officer (traffic, etc). Some people disagree with me on this subject, but I'd personally much rather have an officer find out about my gun because I told him, rather than having him find out that I have a gun when he catches a glimpse of it, and perhaps views it as a threat. Remember, the officer doesn't know you any better than you know him, and there are people out there who would happily kill us just because we wear a badge.

2) You are not subject to search simply because of a CCW. The same rules of search and seizure apply to concealed carry situations as they would in any other situation. An officer may conduct a "pat-down" for weapons if he believes that it is necessary to do so for safety, but this search is narrow in scope, and limited to trying to detect weapons (reference the US Supreme Court case of Terry v. Ohio). Other searches will also have to meet the legal criteria for a search (warrant, search incident to arrest, consent, etc). Incidentally, I often don't feel any need to conduct a pat-down on a person who just told me that they have a gun... clearly I already know that they are armed at this point!

3) An officer may temporarily disarm you during your contact with him/her, but this can occur whether or not the weapon is carried openly or concealed. I usually don't disarm citizens myself, but have done so in the past when the armed party was being contacted in reference to a crime (domestic violence, theft, etc). These instances are rare, and most folks I've contacted with CCWs are otherwise law-abiding citizens on traffic stops for minor infractions.

 

[MrWesson]

BlisteringSilence

If I pull you over, and you don't identify yourself as a CHL holder, and you are carrying, we're going to have a long, long chat when your DL comes back with that permit. If you tell me that you refused to follow the law because you didn't like my attitude, you're likely going to get your firearm confiscated, along with your license, and have to fight it out with the state police. You get really surly, you're going to jail instead of the citation I might have written otherwise.

On the other hand, if I pull you over and you identify yourself as a CHL holder, you are now in the possession of what we refer to as the "not-a-criminal-card," and the odds are fairly high that I'm going to let you go with a verbal warning.

The more polite to me you are, the more leeway you will get from me.

I understand your side but the idea of lecturing(unless they are breaking the law) wouldn't get you anywhere with most informed citizens. We do not have to let the officer know in Florida(many other states as well) and it is not tied to our DL. You also do not need a license to carry a loaded firearm in the centerconsole or glovebox. It is up to me to inform the officer but normally I do. If a noticeably aggravated officer pulled me over then he is on a need to know basis. I will receive no lectures I will simply ask if I am able to leave and from there determine whether I am under arrest if so lawyer time. I will most assuredly not be arrested if the officer plans to keep his job and money.

An informed citizen is a free one I would never submit to a fishing search by a street cop.

 

[divemedic]

I will receive no lectures I will simply ask if I am able to leave and from there determine whether I am under arrest if so lawyer time. I will most assuredly not be arrested if the officer plans to keep his job and money.

^^^^ What he said^^^^

If you have nothing to hide, let them search and go on about your day.

I have plenty to hide. So does everyone. If the cops asks, would you tell him your wife's favorite sexual position? Your ATM pin? Why not?

 

[Gouranga]

If you have nothing to hide, let them search and go on about your day.{/quote]

While I would not take it this far, I would say, I have no problem whatsoever in cooperating with the officer. 95% of them are good guys, trying to make a living doing a pretty tough job. I mean while the rest of us can and will avoid situations that can lead to an altercation and gunfire, many times they are called to do just that. Sorry if I sound preachy, we just had 2 officers shot in a neighboring town trying to serve a search warrant on a suspect. Having 2 family members who are LEOs it really hits home when I hear a lot of contempt being thrown around for them.

Without a doubt, we all need to be vigilant in protecting our rights, but really I would take little to no offense in telling an officer I have a CCW and am carrying and being disarmed for his/her comfort. While I would not up and consent to any search, I would possibly consent if the officer could give me good cause for it. I have consented to searches in the past. In one, the officers were looking for a suspect in a extremely violent crime. They had a vague enough description of his vehicle and look as well as number of people with him that I fit it. When I asked him why he wished to search my vehicle, he explained it to me. I had been calm, as had my passengers so the officer returned the favor. I had no problem with the search, the guys they were looking for needed to be found and I was not going to slow them down on that. He checked out the car, and went about his business.

If I were to receive a stern lecture by an officer about legally carrying a weapon, I would make it a point to contact his/her department and speak to his chief. I mean any of us with CCW (at least in NC), we have spent $$, been fingerprinted and put in a federal DB, gone through 2 background checks (one for purchase, another for CCW), taken an 8 hours class, and certified on the range. In short, I have jumped through enough hoops, I am obviously a law abiding citizen, I have a guaranteed right to bear arms (important enough it was the second amendment right after free speech). The officer has no reason or right to use his position to lecture me on exercising my right and IMO it shows a lack of integrity to abuse his/her position of authority to do so.

Anyway, off the soapbox. Good day everyone, I hope you have a better Friday than the one here, it is cold, dark, and rainy. I so could go for Spring right about now.

 

[SHvar]

If you have nothing to hide then theres no reason to refuse. If you have something to hide you deserve what you get, period, and I hope you get whats coming to you.
The few times Ive ever had a cop ask to check my car over the years (many years ago) I said sure, go right ahead, all he did was take a look from outside the vehicle and go about what he was doing.
Working in law enforcement I see no reason to hide whats in my car, but thats me, I have nothing to hide from the cops.

 

[Deanimator]

If you have nothing to hide then theres no reason to refuse.

If you don't value your Constitutional rights, there's no reason to protect them.

I DO value my Constitutional rights, and NOBODY is going track muddy footprints over them, certainly without paying a price.

You can consent to vehicle searches, home searches or daily cavity searches if you like. Advising OTHERS to deprecate and devalue their hard won rights is every bit as wrong as advising others to share needles or have unprotected sex with strangers.

 

[bdickens]

If you have nothing to hide then theres no reason to refuse. If you have something to hide you deserve what you get, period, and I hope you get whats coming to you.
The few times Ive ever had a cop ask to check my car over the years (many years ago) I said sure, go right ahead, all he did was take a look from outside the vehicle and go about what he was doing.
Working in law enforcement I see no reason to hide whats in my car, but thats me, I have nothing to hide from the cops.

That's the typical line espoused by those who wish to erect a tyranny.

If you won't stand up for your rights, then you deserve none.

Bend over and take it if you wish, but do not advise others to do so.

 

[MrWesson]

If you have nothing to hide then theres no reason to refuse. If you have something to hide you deserve what you get, period, and I hope you get whats coming to you.
The few times Ive ever had a cop ask to check my car over the years (many years ago) I said sure, go right ahead, all he did was take a look from outside the vehicle and go about what he was doing.
Working in law enforcement I see no reason to hide whats in my car, but thats me, I have nothing to hide from the cops.

Lets say the car is used and they find something hidden(could happen). Not every cop knows the law and although you may beat the charge you wont beat the ride. Rookies around here have been known to cuff people that are not breaking the law but breaking their law. In Florida there are no step processes(3 step rule) for car carry but some officers come from states that have them and before you know it you are sitting in the back of a police car and not officially arrested while he calls his sergeant to find out the law.

This is an example of obscure laws on the books that can own you and there many laws like this a cop may know just to get an arrest.

798.02 Lewd and lascivious behavior.

If any man and woman, not being married to each other, lewdly and lasciviously associate and cohabit together, or if any man or woman, married or unmarried, engages in open and gross lewdness and lascivious behavior, they shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

 

[Ronsch]

Not in Alaska. An ACHP is tied to one's Driver's License, so it shows up if the LEO runs your license. That said, if you have a ACHP, and you are carrying, you do have to notify the officer at the time of the stop. I have not been pulled over, so I do not know personally if you are NOT carrying, if you have to advise the officer. I think my inclination would be, if I was not carrying, and I have my ACHP, I would advise the officer of those facts.

 

[Deanimator]

An ACHP is tied to one's Driver's License

I thought that Alaska no longer had permits.

 

[Ronsch]

No, we still have them available. Here is the actual Statute language:

Alaska Statute 11.61.220 allows anyone 21 or older, who may legally carry a firearm to also carry it concealed without having to obtain a special permit. The possession of a firearm at courthouses, school yards, bars and domestic violence shelters will continue to be prohibited. Alaskans may obtain a concealed carry permit if they want reciprocity with other states.

I keep mine for the reciprocity with Indiana (where I vacation the most.)

In addition, no telling when some politician will get the WHUHA and try to rescind the allowable concealed carry. Also, "home rule" cities can make more stringent ordinances, as long as they do not drop below the State standard. Juneau, where I reside, is a "home rule" city and could easily add the ACHP requirement for concealed carry.

 

[GGriff]

Common Sense

Use common sense. Here in western WA, there have been six LEO's shot and killed in the last 3 months. Because of this, they are all on edge. My boss was pulled over for speeding, and when he reached for his wallet in his back pocket, the officer began to draw her gun! I hate to think what may have occurred if he had a CCW in his waistband. Tell them you have a CHL, fine. Let them know where it is at, fine. Let them search just for fun, NO! I have nothing to hide, but they had better have a good reason to go searching.

I did get "Terry stopped" in the L.A. area several years back because I had been parked near a vehicle that was under surveillance for drug running. I had WA plates and had been in the back of my truck moving things around. I was asked to get out, was frisked, produced ID, what was I doing there? I cooperated and had no issues. It was kind of funny that when he asked if he could check the bed of my truck, I told him I should probably remove the 100lb German Shepherd that was in there. He said "never mind". In retrospect, I don't think I would have changed the way I handled things. I do wonder what complications being a CHL holder may have introduced into the situation.

Moral of the story? Bring a big dog along and be nice. You probably won't have to deal with a search.

I am really amazed at how few actually realize what their rights are. I have been one of the uninformed, and I tend to be better informed than the average. I really appreciate the information and ideas that are expressed here.

 

[Deanimator]

Moral of the story? Bring a big dog along and be nice. You probably won't have to deal with a search.

OR, they'll shoot the dog. That happened in the false raid/arrest of the mayor of a small town, that's been previously described here.

 

[61chalk]

BlisteringSilence who is
a LEO says you better notify him when he approaches or else....SO....I assumed that
since he is a LEO in AR it was the law there to notify....but another person on this
thread said he was from AR an you don't have to notify unless the LEO asks......???...
so anyone from AR can clarify what the law is.....because someone is wrong...an if it
is the LEO that would be a sad case....Just looking for the truth, no offense towards anyone.

 

[brboyer]

BlisteringSilence who is
a LEO says you better notify him when he approaches or else....SO....I assumed that
since he is a LEO in AR it was the law there to notify....but another person on this
thread said he was from AR an you don't have to notify unless the LEO asks......???...
so anyone from AR can clarify what the law is.....because someone is wrong...an if it
is the LEO that would be a sad case....Just looking for the truth, no offense towards anyone.

The law appears to be the same as Florida. You have to have the license and ID with you, but are only required to show the license upon demand by a LEO. No requirement to tell him you have a gun on you.

5-73-315 Possession of license -- Identification of licensee.

(a) Any person possessing a valid license issued pursuant to this subchapter may carry a concealed handgun.
(b) The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

But then there are some State Police Rules?

Rule 3.2 Contact with law enforcement
(a) While in possession of a concealed handgun, the licensee shall present the original license for inspection, along with an official form of photo identification, upon request for identification by any law enforcement officer.
(b) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and that he or she has a handgun in his or her possession.(c) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS NOT in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall not be required to notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and does not have a handgun in his or her possession.
(d) An official form of photo identification shall be, but is not limited to, any of the following:
(1) Current and valid Arkansas driver's license;
(2) Current and valid military identification card; or
(3) Current and valid United States passport.
Effective date January 1, 2009 8
(e) Reproduced copies of the official form of photo identification or copies of the original concealed handgun carry license shall not be accepted.

Which, other than (a), appear to have no basis in law....and as far as I can tell, no penalty for ignoring......

Even these "rules" authority statement does not say anything about possession

Rule 1.1 Authority; Purpose
(a) These Rules are issued under the Director’s authority under ACA §§5-73-317, and §§12-8-104, et seq., and the Arkansas Administrative Procedure Act at ACA §§25-15- 201, et seq., among others. The purpose of these Rules is to provide guidelines in conformity with Arkansas laws as to issuance and governance of applicants for new, renewal, or transfer licenses to carry a concealed handgun in the State of Arkansas as issued by the Department of Arkansas State Police; and to provide standards and guidelines to instructors who train concealed handgun carry license applicants.

ACA §5-73-317. Rules and regulations.
The Director of the Department of Arkansas State Police may promulgate rules
and regulations to permit the efficient administration of this subchapter.

IANAL, but I say the above rules realted to notification to LEO have no lawful authority.

 

[GGriff]

OR, they'll shoot the dog. That happened in the false raid/arrest of the mayor of a small town, that's been previously described here.

they'll shoot the dog. That happened in the false raid/arrest of the mayor of a small town, that's been previously described here.

My comment about bringing the dog was more in jest than anything, and, as a very new member I have not read everything that has been on here.

At the time of the incident I described, I had NO thought that it could go badly for me. In general it seems people expect to be treated the way they would treat others. This seems to fade with age for those who are honest, law-abiding citizens

 

[razorback2003]

Thanks BRBoyer

You found the same Arkansas statute that I found and also learned in my AR concealed handgun license class several years ago. We were told that we were only required to show ID and CHL when ASKED for the CHL....so it looks like ASP is adding junk to their little rule book...which doesn't amount to a hill of beans and is not actual statute....they would LIKE everyone to notify...but it is not law....and they are going so far to make everyone THINK notifying is law....very sad. Glad I live in TN and have a Handgun Carry Permit now and not giving ASP my money anymore......the off limits places in Arkansas are REDICULOUS...about 20 places!