coyote_jr
member
Off your rocker
Not anytime that soon. But it's a step in that direction.
Does Ron Paul have a chance?
- Thread starter Ragnar Danneskjold
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Off your rocker
Not anytime that soon. But it's a step in that direction.Bubbles
Member
If the three conservatives (Ron Paul, Duncan Hunter, & Tom Tancredo) in the race figured out amongst themselves who would run in the primaries, and the other two drop out, then that person would win the GOP nomination. Why? Because you'd have one conservative running against four or five RINO's, instead of the other way around as in too many past elections.
Personally I'll be voting for Ron Paul in the primary, if he's still in it by the time it's held in my state.
Personally I'll be voting for Ron Paul in the primary, if he's still in it by the time it's held in my state.
Titan6
member
Living in Texas my vote isn't exactly meaningful as it would be in say Florida. Sad to admit but I have not voted in a presidential election since 1984 when I voted for RR (I did not even hear of RP until 1998). Even though RR effectiveness was mixed and he did sell out the 2A on the full auto ban he at least had character and dignity; something we lack in our leaders these days. Even though we were at the height of the cold war I don't think he ever would have allowed a freedom grabbing piece of garbage like the Patriot Act go by him. I digress...
Do I think RP will win? Nope. Will I vote for him? You better believe it. He might well be the last hope we have for real freedom in this country. He also is a man of unwavering principal; something we have not had in national politics in our lifetime. You may be critical of his ideas but they won't change with next poll numbers either. If he does not end up on any ticket than I vote for the same candidate that I voted for the last 23 years: None of the above....
Do I think RP will win? Nope. Will I vote for him? You better believe it. He might well be the last hope we have for real freedom in this country. He also is a man of unwavering principal; something we have not had in national politics in our lifetime. You may be critical of his ideas but they won't change with next poll numbers either. If he does not end up on any ticket than I vote for the same candidate that I voted for the last 23 years: None of the above....
Hobie
Member
No, I don't think so.
GoRon
Member
I may very well vote for him, I'll have to see who else there is on the primary ballot.
His diatribes exposing his thoughts on foreign policy kinda scare me.
Does my vote for him back in '88 count?
He should run for governor then make a run at the Presidency.
I guess I only have principles if I vote like you want me too
ConstitutionCowboy
member
Clear Conscience?
If such a gun confiscation is ordered, my conscience Will be crystal clear as to what to do about it.
Woody
"Revolution is the Right of the People to preserve or restore Freedom. Those vested with power shall neither deprive the People the means, nor compel such recourse." B.E.Wood
"I swear to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but I am not trigger-happy. I am merely prepared and determined in its defense. It's a comfortable place to be. I don't suffer doubt." B.E.Wood
"Knowing the past, I'll not surrender any arms and march less prepared into the future." B.E.Wood
Etc, Etc, Etc...
taurusowner said:
If such a gun confiscation is ordered, my conscience Will be crystal clear as to what to do about it.
Woody
"Revolution is the Right of the People to preserve or restore Freedom. Those vested with power shall neither deprive the People the means, nor compel such recourse." B.E.Wood
"I swear to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but I am not trigger-happy. I am merely prepared and determined in its defense. It's a comfortable place to be. I don't suffer doubt." B.E.Wood
"Knowing the past, I'll not surrender any arms and march less prepared into the future." B.E.Wood
Etc, Etc, Etc...
GoRon
Member
I knew that, just thought I would try and get a rise out of ya, lol.
Emotionally, I would hope so (but note the tag line in my sig).
Realistically? NO he doesn't.
At this point I see three options:
- not to vote (take your ball and go home and get shut completely out of the game)
- vote symbolically (same result as above)
- vote for the top tier candidate who will do the least harm (essentially mitigate/limit the damage to later undo it, while we get our act together for the future).
Flame suit on!
Realistically? NO he doesn't.
At this point I see three options:
- not to vote (take your ball and go home and get shut completely out of the game)
- vote symbolically (same result as above)
- vote for the top tier candidate who will do the least harm (essentially mitigate/limit the damage to later undo it, while we get our act together for the future).
Flame suit on!
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Titan6
member
Incoming!
Striker- Sounds like you are planning on hope working out for you. It didn't work with RR won't work with RG, or most of the others maybe McCain... but I doubt it and it is still only hope. Be persistent with your choice though and maybe it will pay off. But you will always know that if it goes badly that you will have assisted in putting that person in place. Just as I will have be guilty by association if RP wins and brings back the gold standard and destroys the world banking system and capitalism as we know it. (dont flame me this ain't an econ 101 forum).
RP is not so much a true libertarian (look at his speeches and deeds and you will see) as a true republican. He just talks the talk and walks the walk... I don't think he will win because too many people have given up on principals in favor of compromise for a certain perceived level comfort, safety and that which is familar. This has been and always will be the danger of a democracy.
Striker- Sounds like you are planning on hope working out for you. It didn't work with RR won't work with RG, or most of the others maybe McCain... but I doubt it and it is still only hope. Be persistent with your choice though and maybe it will pay off. But you will always know that if it goes badly that you will have assisted in putting that person in place. Just as I will have be guilty by association if RP wins and brings back the gold standard and destroys the world banking system and capitalism as we know it. (dont flame me this ain't an econ 101 forum).
RP is not so much a true libertarian (look at his speeches and deeds and you will see) as a true republican. He just talks the talk and walks the walk... I don't think he will win because too many people have given up on principals in favor of compromise for a certain perceived level comfort, safety and that which is familar. This has been and always will be the danger of a democracy.
Igloodude
Member
Striker said:
I fail to see how we're going to get our act together for the future, if the Republican Party continues to see us as a block of voters that they can take for granted.
Outlaw Man
Member
If he can win the Republican nomination he has a legitimate shot at winning the election. Unlike Hilary, Paul has the distinction of having voted against the war from the beginning, and may be able to use that to his advantage against her. Unfortunately, she's making her recent opposition to the war a big deal, so it may be hard to get his message through the junk she's putting out.
Right now, the final election shouldn't be a concern. It's almost certainly going to be a Democrat or a Republican that wins the election. We should be focusing our efforts on making sure we have the best candidate in that position.
The big names in the running, on both tickets, all scare me.
Right now, the final election shouldn't be a concern. It's almost certainly going to be a Democrat or a Republican that wins the election. We should be focusing our efforts on making sure we have the best candidate in that position.
The big names in the running, on both tickets, all scare me.
nico
Member
so, does that mean you'll take responsibility if Guiliani or McCain signs it?
I live in a state that's about as blue as they get, so my vote has no effect on who wins the election. It does, however, have an effect on the margin of victory. Last election, I held my nose and voted for Bush, only to have him claim a mandate and go on with the crap that made me have to hold my nose in the first place. I won't do that next year.
Titan,
My sig line referenced in the first sentence is:
I should have clarified that my choice at this point is the third articulated, since I am in total agreement with you here:
Sometimes you have to conduct a retrograde operation (trade space for time) to preserve the resources to prevail. The current 2008 candidate slate may indicate it is time to do so.
On the other hand, if we could effectively harness the current Zumbo dynamic and apply it to the election......
My opinion (I'm just a dumb, old, retired infrantryman), YMMV.
My sig line referenced in the first sentence is:
I should have clarified that my choice at this point is the third articulated, since I am in total agreement with you here:
Sometimes you have to conduct a retrograde operation (trade space for time) to preserve the resources to prevail. The current 2008 candidate slate may indicate it is time to do so.
On the other hand, if we could effectively harness the current Zumbo dynamic and apply it to the election......
My opinion (I'm just a dumb, old, retired infrantryman), YMMV.
I think if people would quit voting for someone they think can win and instead vote their conscience, then Ron Paul would be the choice of the majority of freedom loving people.
I suppose most of you have heard of the monkey trap where a hollowed coconut is tied to a tree and filled with goodies. A monkey comes along and can barely get his hand in the cutout hole, but when he grasp the goodies inside, his fist cannot be pulled out and he just sits there holding onto what he has. He screams and pulls as the hunter comes up to club him over the head, but he never lets go of the pittance he has in his hand.
The problem with getting Ron Paul elected is that too many people do not believe in freedom; too many people who do are unwilling to take their hand out of the monkey trap; and the media is on the side of those who want state power over the population and Ron Paul is not one of those people.
I suppose most of you have heard of the monkey trap where a hollowed coconut is tied to a tree and filled with goodies. A monkey comes along and can barely get his hand in the cutout hole, but when he grasp the goodies inside, his fist cannot be pulled out and he just sits there holding onto what he has. He screams and pulls as the hunter comes up to club him over the head, but he never lets go of the pittance he has in his hand.
The problem with getting Ron Paul elected is that too many people do not believe in freedom; too many people who do are unwilling to take their hand out of the monkey trap; and the media is on the side of those who want state power over the population and Ron Paul is not one of those people.
Titan6
member
Great point
'I think if people would quit voting for someone they think can win and instead vote their conscience, then Ron Paul would be the choice of the majority of freedom loving people.'
I posted a poll lets see...
'I think if people would quit voting for someone they think can win and instead vote their conscience, then Ron Paul would be the choice of the majority of freedom loving people.'
I posted a poll lets see...
Patriot-Brewer
Member
I completely agree w/Taurus and Striker
Voting our conscience will not stop the broken freight train, won't even slow it down. I can just see the Dem's laughing at the theory that a 3rd party vote will scare them, or the Rhinos for that matter. The final conclusion to this train ride isn't going to be stopped by voting your conscience...that power has been set aside like old socks a while ago.
Vote to slow the train as much as possible, not speed it up. The longer it takes for the train to derail, the more time there is for preparation.
If you vote for someone you know will not win, knowing full well it will help the "enemy" acquire their goal, what have you accomplished. All you'd be doing is destroying our 2A for our children instead of our grandchildren or great grandchildren.
Vote your conscience in the primaries-vote delaying tactics in the election
Voting our conscience will not stop the broken freight train, won't even slow it down. I can just see the Dem's laughing at the theory that a 3rd party vote will scare them, or the Rhinos for that matter. The final conclusion to this train ride isn't going to be stopped by voting your conscience...that power has been set aside like old socks a while ago.
Vote to slow the train as much as possible, not speed it up. The longer it takes for the train to derail, the more time there is for preparation.
If you vote for someone you know will not win, knowing full well it will help the "enemy" acquire their goal, what have you accomplished. All you'd be doing is destroying our 2A for our children instead of our grandchildren or great grandchildren.
Vote your conscience in the primaries-vote delaying tactics in the election
Patriot-Brewer
Member
Gego, Titan...that's all well and good, and I wish it could happen but how are we going to do that? To get that kind of grass roots "I've had enough" thinking going on will take a HUGE screw you from our illustrious .gov, probably more than just our gun world can do on it's own.
It takes a lot of power and $ to get elected nowadays. We need someone with honor and integrity with lots of $ to put up a fight with some chance of winning. PLUTOCRACY is what happens when Capitalism runs astray and honor and patriotism are outcast.
I wish we could do what you want, I really do. We'll never get 60-80 million gun owners to focus together, look at the "Zumbony incident". That idiot showed the true problems within our beloved industry.
It takes a lot of power and $ to get elected nowadays. We need someone with honor and integrity with lots of $ to put up a fight with some chance of winning. PLUTOCRACY is what happens when Capitalism runs astray and honor and patriotism are outcast.
I wish we could do what you want, I really do. We'll never get 60-80 million gun owners to focus together, look at the "Zumbony incident". That idiot showed the true problems within our beloved industry.
Titan6
member
Patriot Brewer
You are so very right in everything you are saying. I unfortunately for me, live with a very antiquated moral code. In time I will go the way of the dinosaur and the dodo.... failure to adapt.
You are so very right in everything you are saying. I unfortunately for me, live with a very antiquated moral code. In time I will go the way of the dinosaur and the dodo.... failure to adapt.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
It's simple
Vote with you conscience in the primaries.
Vote against the worst candidate in the election.
How do we get our act together until a real candidate is in the actual election? Keep hyping the good candidates in the primaries. Talk to your friends about them, donate money, put links to their sites or quotes from them in your sig lines on forums, put up signs and bumper stickers, donate money. Do all you can to get them as many primary votes as you can. Do that every primary, and it will build up steam. Send your message that way.
BUT, until an actual good candidate builds up that steam and makes it to the real election, you need to vote against the worst candidate in November. Keep your hope and use it in the primaries. But when crunch time comes in November, live in the real world. Either a Democrat or Republican is going to win. Which one do you want to win more? Or more importantly, which one do you want to lose more? Which is going to be better for gun rights. Which is going to be worse for gun rights?
I'll vote for Paul in the primaries. That's what my conscience tells me. But if he doesn't make it, and I have a choice between, say, Obama and Rudy, I'm voting against Obama.
Vote with you conscience in the primaries.
Vote against the worst candidate in the election.
How do we get our act together until a real candidate is in the actual election? Keep hyping the good candidates in the primaries. Talk to your friends about them, donate money, put links to their sites or quotes from them in your sig lines on forums, put up signs and bumper stickers, donate money. Do all you can to get them as many primary votes as you can. Do that every primary, and it will build up steam. Send your message that way.
BUT, until an actual good candidate builds up that steam and makes it to the real election, you need to vote against the worst candidate in November. Keep your hope and use it in the primaries. But when crunch time comes in November, live in the real world. Either a Democrat or Republican is going to win. Which one do you want to win more? Or more importantly, which one do you want to lose more? Which is going to be better for gun rights. Which is going to be worse for gun rights?
I'll vote for Paul in the primaries. That's what my conscience tells me. But if he doesn't make it, and I have a choice between, say, Obama and Rudy, I'm voting against Obama.
Patriot-Brewer
Member
Titan, I respect you for that. Nothing wrong with it at all as long as you understand the outcome.
jerkyman45
Member
I'm a conservative in a horribly liberal state, my vote doesn't really mean a damn thing anyways.
Sylvan-Forge
Member
Practical, tactical, strategem, ... when is enough, enough?
The same strategy of compromise has been played out time and time again in all of those that actually think and vote that I know of. What has that line of thinking gotten them? Gotten you? Gotten us? Gradual erosion of rights with little in the way of federal repeal.
We have one last chance to stand on principle before the sky indeed comes crashing down. I plan to go out with a vote that I deem honorable. No more games.
No more compromises.
The same strategy of compromise has been played out time and time again in all of those that actually think and vote that I know of. What has that line of thinking gotten them? Gotten you? Gotten us? Gradual erosion of rights with little in the way of federal repeal.
We have one last chance to stand on principle before the sky indeed comes crashing down. I plan to go out with a vote that I deem honorable. No more games.
No more compromises.
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