ny32182
Member
Do you consider your FAL to be reliable? If so, with a full mag, can you ease the charging handle forward until the bolt is touching the rim of the first round in the mag, then release the charging handle, and have the round chamber?
Does your FAL do this?
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P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Mine is perfectly reliable - unless I allow too much carbon to build in gas port and don't compensate by closing the turn dial a bit.
Fore sure - for FAL it's ''1911'' slingshot - bolt has to get full momentum.
Fore sure - for FAL it's ''1911'' slingshot - bolt has to get full momentum.
Bwana John
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TTBB- You just need to shoot that thing!!! As the new parkerizing and rough edges smooth out it will start running much nicer. I figger at least 500 rounds just to break it in.
Dont mamby-pamby the bolt, close it using the bolt release or by slingshoting.
By the way- do NOT slam the bolt on a cartridge with out feeding the cartridge thru the mag. The feeding of the cartridge out of the mag slows the bolt down, with too much bolt speed you can get a slamfire.
Dont mamby-pamby the bolt, close it using the bolt release or by slingshoting.
By the way- do NOT slam the bolt on a cartridge with out feeding the cartridge thru the mag. The feeding of the cartridge out of the mag slows the bolt down, with too much bolt speed you can get a slamfire.
ny32182
Member
Ok, thanks guys... a guy on FALfiles suggested it as a test of feeding reliability, and said that all his rifles would do that before he would consider them reliable.
I took some 600 grit sandpaper and smoothed out the underside of the rails on the inside of the receiver, and I think it feeds a little smoother now, but it still won't do what I described above. It does appear to be reliably chambering from the locked open position though.
As soon as my new rear sight gets here I will take it out to the range again and see if I can turn the gas down a bit, and see if it is closer to on target as far as the elevation goes.
Thanks for all the advice.
I took some 600 grit sandpaper and smoothed out the underside of the rails on the inside of the receiver, and I think it feeds a little smoother now, but it still won't do what I described above. It does appear to be reliably chambering from the locked open position though.
As soon as my new rear sight gets here I will take it out to the range again and see if I can turn the gas down a bit, and see if it is closer to on target as far as the elevation goes.
Thanks for all the advice.
ftierson
Member.
By the way, ttbadboy, while the falfiles is a great source of info on the FAL (and other weapons), don't believe everything that you hear.
The person giving the advice to you may well feel that way about what it takes for him to consider his FALs as reliable. He's welcome to that view.
However, I doubt that most FAL owners would agree. As the others above suggest, the FAL is designed to feed cartridges into the chamber from the magazine, and this should be accomplished by releasing the bolt hold open or pulling the charging handle to the rear and releasing it without riding the handle forward. I would trust any FAL that I checked out that always chambered the round off the top of a full mag from BHO release or releasing the charging handle from the rear... All of my FALs are completely reliable, and rarely would they chamber a round if I eased the bolt up to the rear of the cartridge in the mag and then let the carrier try to close...
The more the FAL is shot, the more likely it will be loosened up enough to strip the cartridge as your "expert" suggested should happen.
The person giving the advice to you may well feel that way about what it takes for him to consider his FALs as reliable. He's welcome to that view.
However, I doubt that most FAL owners would agree. As the others above suggest, the FAL is designed to feed cartridges into the chamber from the magazine, and this should be accomplished by releasing the bolt hold open or pulling the charging handle to the rear and releasing it without riding the handle forward. I would trust any FAL that I checked out that always chambered the round off the top of a full mag from BHO release or releasing the charging handle from the rear... All of my FALs are completely reliable, and rarely would they chamber a round if I eased the bolt up to the rear of the cartridge in the mag and then let the carrier try to close...
The more the FAL is shot, the more likely it will be loosened up enough to strip the cartridge as your "expert" suggested should happen.
Hoploholic
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The FAL is designed to chamber after the bolt has moved to is rear most travel and is under full recoil spring pressure. If your battle rifle functions in this manner then you are good to go. If it will chamber with the bolt face resting on the case then either your mag's feed lips have seen lots of use, your rifle has seen lots of use or both. Its not necessarily a bad thing but its not good either.
Billy Sparks
Member
That is what I was thinking. Remember the FAL was designed as a military weapon therefore it was designed for the bolt to NOT be eased shut but slammed.
ny32182
Member
Absolutely, ideally, it should be pulled all the way to the rear and released.
The test was described to me as a way to make sure the rounds were being released easily enough to ensure reliable feeding every time. If my SA58 is not the only FAL out there that won't do this as described though, I won't feel so bad about it. Now that I've smoothed out the rails, I can hopefully get reliable operation with less gas than I am running now, which is enough to bend the cartridge rims on extraction. That can't be good in the long run.
The test was described to me as a way to make sure the rounds were being released easily enough to ensure reliable feeding every time. If my SA58 is not the only FAL out there that won't do this as described though, I won't feel so bad about it. Now that I've smoothed out the rails, I can hopefully get reliable operation with less gas than I am running now, which is enough to bend the cartridge rims on extraction. That can't be good in the long run.
Bwana John
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TTBB- while I love my FAL I think it is far from perfect. I think you are decovering some things that are not great about the rifle, again nothing is perfect.
A. There is non-recipracating bolt handle on a FAL, therefore no way to "forward assist" the bolt (Izzy excluded) That is why the bolt needs inertia to work correctly. It was desigined that way! By trying to achieve somthing the rifle was not desigined for you are changing the bolt speed, which will wear parts out faster thru exissive battery, and possibly be dangerous (slamfire).
B. The gas system is adjustable so you can give it more gas if it needs it, that means when it is new and rough, or old and worn out, or dirty, or bad ammo, ect. This can be VERY hard on brass, espically commerical brass. I have had many different rifles that reguire no adjustments, and little cleaning (M-1,M-1car,M-1a,AK,AR...ect)so I dont like the adjustable gas system, but that is what the FAL has.
C. You have allready experanced some of the problems mounting the rear sight on the lower reciever causes, expect accuracy to suffer also.
Everything has pluses and minuses, and you can midegate many of them, but if you get to gung-ho with a dremmil tool with out really understanding the entire system problems can result.
On top of all this it is a semi-obselete REMANUFACTURED Main Battle Rifle (DSA, abet one of the best ones) but not a FN, or even FN licenced, or assembled from all new hammer forged parts by FN licenced armorers.
Dont worry about reloading your brass, dont expect it to be a tack driver, dont think its going to run like a swiss watch. Expect it to run like a tractor.
So expect some problems with your new (old) rifle, have fun learning about fixing them, but most importantly get out and shoot it.
A. There is non-recipracating bolt handle on a FAL, therefore no way to "forward assist" the bolt (Izzy excluded) That is why the bolt needs inertia to work correctly. It was desigined that way! By trying to achieve somthing the rifle was not desigined for you are changing the bolt speed, which will wear parts out faster thru exissive battery, and possibly be dangerous (slamfire).
B. The gas system is adjustable so you can give it more gas if it needs it, that means when it is new and rough, or old and worn out, or dirty, or bad ammo, ect. This can be VERY hard on brass, espically commerical brass. I have had many different rifles that reguire no adjustments, and little cleaning (M-1,M-1car,M-1a,AK,AR...ect)so I dont like the adjustable gas system, but that is what the FAL has.
C. You have allready experanced some of the problems mounting the rear sight on the lower reciever causes, expect accuracy to suffer also.
Everything has pluses and minuses, and you can midegate many of them, but if you get to gung-ho with a dremmil tool with out really understanding the entire system problems can result.
On top of all this it is a semi-obselete REMANUFACTURED Main Battle Rifle (DSA, abet one of the best ones) but not a FN, or even FN licenced, or assembled from all new hammer forged parts by FN licenced armorers.
Dont worry about reloading your brass, dont expect it to be a tack driver, dont think its going to run like a swiss watch. Expect it to run like a tractor.
So expect some problems with your new (old) rifle, have fun learning about fixing them, but most importantly get out and shoot it.
ny32182
Member
Bwana, good points...
The idea behind this thread was to get second opinions about what one individual on FALfiles told me. As we can see (and I'm glad about it) there appear to be many more people who don't think that the rifle should be able to do as advised.
All I have done to the receiver so far is use very fine sandpaper, by hand, to break the edge on the underside of the rails where the rounds rub during feeding. I would not feel comfortable dremeling the receiver.
They do feel smoother now.
DSA has already run my credit card for the elevated rear sight, so hopefully that is in the mail as we speak.
As far as the accuracy, fit, and finish, I've been impressed. The rifle feels very solid. I shoot (for me) very good groups through it; just as well as I do with my ARs. That might have something to do with the longer sight radius.
I think I'm on the verge of being quite happy with it, given that the rear sight helps out with the elevation (at least somewhat), and if I can turn the gas down a bit now, I'll be quite satisfied. Looking forward to hitting the range with it soon. Unfortunately I'm also running out of ammo... got to order some more surplus from somewhere, soon.
The idea behind this thread was to get second opinions about what one individual on FALfiles told me. As we can see (and I'm glad about it) there appear to be many more people who don't think that the rifle should be able to do as advised.
All I have done to the receiver so far is use very fine sandpaper, by hand, to break the edge on the underside of the rails where the rounds rub during feeding. I would not feel comfortable dremeling the receiver.
They do feel smoother now.DSA has already run my credit card for the elevated rear sight, so hopefully that is in the mail as we speak.
As far as the accuracy, fit, and finish, I've been impressed. The rifle feels very solid. I shoot (for me) very good groups through it; just as well as I do with my ARs. That might have something to do with the longer sight radius.
I think I'm on the verge of being quite happy with it, given that the rear sight helps out with the elevation (at least somewhat), and if I can turn the gas down a bit now, I'll be quite satisfied. Looking forward to hitting the range with it soon. Unfortunately I'm also running out of ammo... got to order some more surplus from somewhere, soon.
ny32182
Member
I think I'm going to order a case of South African from AIM... thanks again.
Chuck R.
Member
ttbadboy
I think you’re looking for problems that may not exist. Were you having feeding problems before you smoothed your rails?
My SA58 has been utterly reliable, and I’ve been surprised at the accuracy when feed decent handloads. Mine is a lot smoother now that it’s been shot a couple K, but even when new it never had a hick-up. I keep the gas on "4" when shooting surplus, and run it at 5.5 when shooting handloads.
I tried “the test” for the hell of it, and mine hung up too, just as I expected it to.
Chuck
I think you’re looking for problems that may not exist. Were you having feeding problems before you smoothed your rails?
My SA58 has been utterly reliable, and I’ve been surprised at the accuracy when feed decent handloads. Mine is a lot smoother now that it’s been shot a couple K, but even when new it never had a hick-up. I keep the gas on "4" when shooting surplus, and run it at 5.5 when shooting handloads.
I tried “the test” for the hell of it, and mine hung up too, just as I expected it to.
Chuck
ny32182
Member
Yes, I've had feeding problems with a full or near full mag, with the gas set on "5". I set the gas to "3", and didn't have a problem after that, but the brass is severely abused with the gas on "3". Not that I plan to reload it... just seems like that much gas can't be good for the action in the long run. It looks like it feeds smoother now, and I plan to turn the gas down a little...
Except for possibly this reason: I got 6 new mags in the mail today. Two of them are *much* more tight than any of my other mags... I've got to use two thumbs to get the last couple rounds in. My rifle chambers the top round off both of these mags, but just barely. I would bet that it wouldn't have done so before the rail smoothing, and these two mags might induce the exact kind of malfs I was having before, with the gas on "5".
Any idea if these two mags can be... fixed? Or should I just toss them? I'm not making this stuff up, I promise.
Except for possibly this reason: I got 6 new mags in the mail today. Two of them are *much* more tight than any of my other mags... I've got to use two thumbs to get the last couple rounds in. My rifle chambers the top round off both of these mags, but just barely. I would bet that it wouldn't have done so before the rail smoothing, and these two mags might induce the exact kind of malfs I was having before, with the gas on "5".
Any idea if these two mags can be... fixed? Or should I just toss them? I'm not making this stuff up, I promise.
Bwana John
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I did that also to my "new" Entreprise reciever, and it helped my "bolt over base, faliure to feed" problem.
Run 5 full loads thru each, and see if they smooth out, If any problem put them aside until rifle is broken in and try again. When I first got the Entreprise FAL it only worked with mags that looked like they had been run over by a half-track, it didnt like new ones. After ironing out all my problems the rifle now works with all mags.
ny32182
Member
Will do...
I'll post a range report as soon as the rear sight comes in and I can get it installed.
I'll post a range report as soon as the rear sight comes in and I can get it installed.
Nightcrawler
Member
With failures to feed in the FAL rifle, sometimes the magazine is the culprit and not the rifle. Often, FAL magazines have very tight lips with sharp edges (when new, or near-new surplus). The magazines themselves may need to be broken in.
FWIW, I've experienced this problem with Austrian mags, but never from the ones that CDNN sells.
The only "bad" FAL magazine I've encountered was an alloy one I got from...Tapco, I think? Multiple failures to feed.
I fixed the magazine by tossing it downrange and putting two rounds through it. With its spring blown out through the large-ish exit holes, the magazine troubled me no more.
FWIW, I've experienced this problem with Austrian mags, but never from the ones that CDNN sells.
The only "bad" FAL magazine I've encountered was an alloy one I got from...Tapco, I think? Multiple failures to feed.
I fixed the magazine by tossing it downrange and putting two rounds through it. With its spring blown out through the large-ish exit holes, the magazine troubled me no more.
ny32182
Member
lol... well, I got some used mags from DSA a while back. They were (are) in pretty rough shape, and I've never even loaded them up.
I've ordered a total of 11 from CDNN so far. Four run well, 5 look good so far (but never been used) and the two I mentioned are extremely tight.
I plan to run these two mags at the range and see what happens. I figure that if it can feed from these two mags, it can feed from anything.
I've ordered a total of 11 from CDNN so far. Four run well, 5 look good so far (but never been used) and the two I mentioned are extremely tight.
I plan to run these two mags at the range and see what happens. I figure that if it can feed from these two mags, it can feed from anything.
ny32182
Member
Also, I broke them down, and the two that are tight seem to have the follower rubbing on the inside of the mag body a little bit. Is this bad? One of the non-tight ones seems to be doing the same thing, but it feels normal when loading rounds.
Nightcrawler
Member
The first thing to do with the mags from CDNN is disassemble them and clean the crap out of them. The ones I've gotten have been full of grease. I use CLP or another solvent (carb cleaner will work, as will a more specialized product like Gunscrubber), and a toothbrush.
Once that's done, they should slick up a bit. After that? I'd guess it's a matter of breaking them in. FAL mags are finished in that thick pebbly coating, inside and out. Run them through the weapon a few times.
Without looking at it, I can't really say more. I'm hardly an expert in any case. Though, I did have a similar FTF problem in my STG-58A when I first got it. I actually filed the feed lips of my 30 round mag a bit, and that actually helped.
Once that's done, they should slick up a bit. After that? I'd guess it's a matter of breaking them in. FAL mags are finished in that thick pebbly coating, inside and out. Run them through the weapon a few times.
Without looking at it, I can't really say more. I'm hardly an expert in any case. Though, I did have a similar FTF problem in my STG-58A when I first got it. I actually filed the feed lips of my 30 round mag a bit, and that actually helped.
ny32182
Member
Yeah, first thing I do to all of them is clean all the crud off the outside, and get as much off the inside as I can with Qtips and Hoppes.
I'll run these mags a few times. If they give me problems, I guess I will use them for reactive target practice. I'll still have 9 good ones left, and they are pretty cheap anyway.
I guess the mag bodies on these two could be slightly out of spec, but that is just my novice observation.
I'll run these mags a few times. If they give me problems, I guess I will use them for reactive target practice. I'll still have 9 good ones left, and they are pretty cheap anyway.
I guess the mag bodies on these two could be slightly out of spec, but that is just my novice observation.
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