Dog Attack

[Gouranga]

Reading this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41055455 made me think of this scenario.

So the dog attack seems to be one of the worst, they can close the distance between you and them REAL fast and once they do you are fighting close in. In my hometown such a scenario played out with a cop and he shot his own foot trying to hit the dog.

In an ideal scenario, you'd see them off far enough and evade them, or have enough time to pull you weapon and get a shot off. But in a suburban setting, just shooting at a dog who runs at you may get you in trouble.

So for S&T let's say the dog is on you or closing fast and will be soon, assuming a large heavy breed pit, rottie, Shepherd or doberman. Assume you have Sabre Away Self Defense Spray (http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-147/SABREHomeAway-PepperSpray-ProtectionKit-Advanced/Detail) , 3inch foldable knife, IWB carried autoloader, home is 200 ft away.

What is the best approach in your way to deal with initial attack and strategy for getting out of it alive, and least amount of harm to your person.

 

[sansone]

around here the deputies expect you to shoot a stray charging at you. You can not allow a large dog to clamp onto your leg or arm. I've tried to help a teenager while a large dog had the boy's leg. Your only option is to kill the animal. Boy spent two months in the hospital with wound infections

 

[bp_cowboy]

I walk my dog every evening and you would be surprised at some of the idiots that just let their dog outside without a leash. I carry Fox pepper spray and have trained myself to get it out pretty quickly. I will spray any unleashed dog that comes near me that does not have a leash on. I am not taking the chance on the dog attacking my dog, me, vice versa, etc.

 

[macadore]

I have been attacked by dogs several times. I find that much more likely than being attacked by a human. When dogs attack there is no time to take a Weaver stance and aim. There is time to draw and fire. From 10 ft. or less most experienced shooters can point shoot and hit within an inch of their intended target. Normally, shooting between the front feet will cause the dog to break off the attack.

 

[Gouranga]

...I find that much more likely than being attacked by a human....

This is exactly why I really try to consider the strategies around how these attacks can play out and how to best deal with them. We have had a couple higher profile dog attacks in this area lately, and it really gets me thinking. If it was my neighbors dogs or someone in the subdivision, the animal would likely be on me so quick I might get a chance to get off 1 shot. I am betting these attacks don't play out anywhere near how I think they do too.

 

[Deanimator]

But in a suburban setting, just shooting at a dog who runs at you may get you in trouble.

Not in Ohio. There's VERY little sentiment here for making people let themselves get bitten by dangerous dogs.

In fact, while it's NOT lawful here to shoot a dog to protect another dog, it's happened several times, and in the instances I've heard of, the shooter wasn't prosecuted.

The general consensus here is that if you don't want your dog to get shot, you should maintain control over it and not let it attack people and other animals.

 

[Gouranga]

Not in Ohio. There's VERY little sentiment here for making people let themselves get bitten by dangerous dogs.

In fact, while it's NOT lawful here to shoot a dog to protect another dog, it's happened several times, and in the instances I've heard of, the shooter wasn't prosecuted.

The general consensus here is that if you don't want your dog to get shot, you should maintain control over it and not let it attack people and other animals.

To be honest, I can't say for sure here you would either. The locals do seem quick to want to slap a "unlawful discharge of firearm within city limits" on folks for just about anything though. Granted that charge is nothing compared to being tore up by a dog.

 

[sansone]

I'll be honest and may get flamed, My 11+13 yr old would hate me if I allowed their beloved Lab (sibbling) to get ripped apart by some vicious stray dog. Yes I would shoot to protect my dog as well

 

[ForumSurfer]

A dog like you mentioned? I'd use the pepper spray. I wouldn't pull my weapon unless I knew I had a clear shot and time to pull it. Pulling and firing after a large breed dog is charging you will likely end with you getting bit before you get a shot off and fighting hand to paw anyway. With the knife, I would stand a really good chance of coming out with bite marks and possibly even knife wounds. Knife fights get messy.

Chances are that it won't be a trained, vicious, blood-thirsty attack dog that comes after me, so a level head and opposable thumbs should suffice.

I've only dealt with one large pit that was aggressive, and it was the owner's fault. The dog wasn't treated right and was allowed to roam free from time to time. I called the animal services repeatedly. The dog showed clear signs of aggression towards my son if he was playing outside. The owner was fined, ticketed and warned repeatedly. After 3 weeks of calling and trying to reason with this guy, I was fed up. I hated to do it, but I simply put the dog down when he went back on my property and showed me his teeth.

 

[Mike J]

This thread makes me think about something that happened about 5 years ago. I went out in my back yard & there were 2 dogs I had never seen before back there. A german shepard mix & a dalmatian. They came up by the back porch. I yelled at them to leave. The shepard mix growled at me then proceeded to the dog pen barking & growling at my dog. I thought about shooting them but I could tell they belonged to someone. They were acting the way dogs that are usually fenced do when they manage to get loose. I decided to run them off so I went inside & got a pick handle. I went back out yelling at them & waving the pick handle around. They ran away from my yard to my neighbors. He was in his back yard with his pistol in his hand. He yelled & ran at the dogs-they left ran a big circle & came back. This happened about 5 times he would wave his arms & yell they would run off & come right back. The last time it happened the shepard mix leaped for his throat. He shot at it with the pistol but missed. I believe he shot under it (where it had just been before jumping). That was enough for the dogs to break it off & flee. This situation could have ended a lot worse though. Interestingly enough that neighbor is a corrections officer & has had formal firearms training.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Interestingly enough that neighbor is a corrections officer & has had formal firearms training.

It happens. A dog leaping or charging directly toward you, even a 90lb dog, doesn't present much of a target area. It's like shooting a small pie plate, only a growling plate with teeth that is being thrown at you rapidly. If one is going to shoot a charging dog, one best consider what to do in case of a miss.

One should also consider what happens after you don't magically drop an aggressive 90lb dog with one shot. He may break off his attack, or he may become more committed.

 

[Hangingrock]

I live in a rural area. The county has no leash law. Dogs roam. I walk and encounter dogs of various demeanor and size. A command presence, stout walking stick and a CCW neutralize aggression. Single dogs are usually less aggressive but like ever rule there are exceptions. A pack of dogs has nettlesome potential. What’s disturbing is the pack behavior.

One of our neighbors had a miniature goat that was pulled down by a pack before I could intervene. I notified Animal Control and told the neighbor I’d testify on their behalf should they wish to sue for damages.

I’ve only had to destroy dogs on two occasions.

On one occasion I was cutting fire wood and for what every reason and with no provocation was attack. I cut off the collars and notified Animal Control as to the disposition and location.

The other occasion pack behavior again. The property owner notified the tenant the remainder dogs were to be removed from the property and the tenant’s lease would not be renewed.

Please note that I’m a dog owner myself German Shepherds and Springer Spaniels. Those dogs have never been a nuisance or danger to others and bad behavior is not tolerated.

 

[Sheldon J]

21' rule applies to dogs too... if it is threatening, pull down on it, if it is charging hold your ground be at the ready and have it in the cross hairs and once it crosses the line then SSS,... been bit once, and never again!!!!! In packs the zone extends to 50' and the lead dog dies first....

 

[Rat Blaster]

Here's what you will hear if you are lucky: clickity clickity, a deep breath and then BOOMGROWLCHOMP all in about 2 seconds. Least that is what happend to me down the street in front of "THAT" house, you know, the rundown one with the folks that have all the "friends" that visit at all hours. Anyway, my wife and i where pushing my NEWBORN in his stroller around the block of our mostly nice neighborhood when we came to "THAT" house at the end of our walk. It seems they were having a large cook out with cars parked in the street (since the yard is used to store junk) and many people where in the yard drinking and playing loud music. So far so good I thought as we walked on passed them without incident. That is untill about 25 yards or so later I hear what I stated above and find myself being knocked to the ground by an angry pit bull looking dog that is being chased by a fat drunk woman who is screaming something like "baby come back, bad dog, come back" and, believe it or not "dont hurt them baby". I would like to say I reacted by reflex and had made it to the but of my gun in time to stop this animal but the thing is I did not have time, it happened too quickly. By the time I made sense of it the dog had basically just knocked me down, kept going and circled back to the drunken fat lady, thank God. She kept yelling how sorry she was and how baby would never hurt a fly and most of all "please dont call the cops!!!!" Yeah, right. Instead of yelling it out with her and risking a fight with a bunch of drunk folks we went home AND CALLED THE COPS. They showed up and took the report in my driveway (so much for being anonymous) then went down and talked to them. Lucky for everyone they were raided a month later, the ones that did not go to jail moved off.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Reading this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41055455 made me think of this scenario.

But in a suburban setting, just shooting at a dog who runs at you may get you in trouble.

Sorry, but I'll take "trouble" over getting mauled by a dog every day of the week and twice on Sunday. One of the primary reasons I got my carry permit. If I see a dog running at me, my hand is on my weapon. If he looks like he is anything but happy to see me, at 20 feet he gets shot. (and that is probably waiting too long)

PS ... I've had dogs all my life, and can tell a "oh man I'm happy to see a person!" running dog from a "I'll show you who's in charge of this street" running dog.

 

[WardenWolf]

The important thing is to "Get off the X", as it were. Don't stand in one place and shoot. Move laterally to get out of the line of his charge. If you're fast enough you may even be able to shoot him as he runs by you.

 

[Rat Blaster]

I never saw the dog until I was getting up, he came from behind us after I had "mentally cleared" that area I guess you could say. The dog was not visible when we walked by. I have a German Shepherd and i too know what play vs mean sounds like, this dog was not playing. Even after it went back to the lady she could barely hold him at one point. He would look at her all luvy then look in our direction and flip out. I'm afraid I may have been toast if the dog did not respond to her.

 

[Zanad]

If it were me, I think I'd be more likely to pull the knife before pull the gun.
here's why:

lets say the dog is close in( less than 21 feet), if it desires want to hurt me , I'd be in a bit of trouble grabbing my concealed carry. the knife on the other hand would be more handy until you can get your gun out.

 

[Hunt480]

Dogs that bite are coming without any hesitation, if you hear footsteps you are in trouble its usually the bigger dogs like bulldogs and the like. Its you are them so shoot to kill. If you run that will thrill them even more. Packs of stray dogs will kill anything they can catch or overpower they should be shot at every opportunity. If your packin you should never get bit by no dog.

 

[GURU1911]

Dog attacks

Have a suggestion: Contact "cold steel special projects" & order a 42" sjambok. Learn how to properly use it & take with you on each amulatory outing. Is non-lethal, but that dog will wish it was dead when a stroke from that sjambok cuts across his back !!!! One of my buddys gave a rott and instant attitude adjustment with his. Dog ran off howling & peeing at the same time. Good non-lethal alternative to you .45 auto or .38 / .357 insurance policy.

Btw: The sjambok works really well also on two-legged gremlins, zombies, & vermin.

 

[conw]

The important thing is to "Get off the X", as it were. Don't stand in one place and shoot. Move laterally to get out of the line of his charge. If you're fast enough you may even be able to shoot him as he runs by you.

Sorry but I don't see this happening unless you time the side-step well after you should have opened fire. Four legs and much faster, less linear reflex and visual tracking means that GOTX is nice in concept with dogs, but they just move so much faster and can change direction easily. You are either moving well within time for the dog to adjust (in which case you gained nothing), or you are moving after you should have committed to firing (could work; it's a judgment call).

Honestly the most effective way to take a dog down, "attack dog" or no, short of a well placed shot, is to step forward a step or two once the dog is within 10 feet. The dog will have timed a leap or a lunge within this range and you throw the timing off, preventing the dog from reaching the full height/range of the leap. As you step forward reach out your dominant hand to grab across the dog's body, the ulna/radius opposite your hand. You THEN sidestep and pull down and sideways, HARD. This flips the dog over laterally and all that force directed at you turns into lateral force on its spine, which stuns the dog. Then you can opt to stomp the dog if it isn't out for the count.

This is how military personnel are sometimes trained to deal with trained canines. And for what it's worth, a dog that is not overly big or is not trained to attack humans can often be scared off by a forward step on the would-be victim's part. If the dog gets ahold of you (like a police dog or Schutzhund-type trained dog would) you probably need a knife or a hard surface (pavement or wall) and a lot of strength to get the dog to let go. An untrained dog that doesn't wound an artery/genital/face area is unlikely to do a whole lot of damage, because they "corn cob" - rather than biting down and holding, they gnash their teeth and sort of gnaw on the target. Sounds unpleasant but it's less likely to cause a problem, because any fight from you and the dog is more like "What do I do now??"

Generally speaking I think trying E&E with a dog, or running, is a mistake. You want to call their bluff with forward movement, or at least standing your ground. Whether you implement a firearm vs the strategy I outlined above is highly situational.

 

[Packman]

Getting off the X is a good idea, but I have to say, any decently agile dog out there can probably figure out where you're going and correct so fast that you may as well have planted yourself. I'm guessing here, but I'd bet you're better off to hold your ground until the last lunge and then attempt to dodge at the last second. Of course, that doesn't guarantee you're not going to get bitten.

I don't like the idea of fight a dog. It's kinda like getting into a knife fight: I'll probably win out in the end, but there's a disturbingly high possibility I'm going to get badly hurt in the process.

As we say in the cockpit....Keep your head on a swivel.

I also second the idea of a stout stick. Even though I'm guilty of not carrying one.

 

[macadore]

Have a suggestion: Contact "cold steel special projects" & order a 42" sjambok. Learn how to properly use it & take with you on each amulatory outing. Is non-lethal, but that dog will wish it was dead when a stroke from that sjambok cuts across his back !!!! One of my buddys gave a rott and instant attitude adjustment with his. Dog ran off howling & peeing at the same time. Good non-lethal alternative to you .45 auto or .38 / .357 insurance policy.

Btw: The sjambok works really well also on two-legged gremlins, zombies, & vermin.

Are those legal in Texas? If so, I'll get one ASAP. I ride a bicycle several times per week and there is something about wheels that make dogs want to attack. I'm not going to draw and fire while moving and if I stop, I will like get my leg chewed. A sjambok is exactly what I need, but I thought they were illegal.

 

[788Ham]

When we first moved into our house 17 years ago, the neighbor across the street had a huge German Shepard that liked to walk the street and try to bite anyone who came into view. One afternoon, I was moving boxes of goods into the house from the garage. The black dog showed up, growling and snarling at me while I had a box in my hands, I sat it down and grabbed a shovel, as I thought this sucker had me. After I chased him off, I called the PD, 20 minutes and they were there. The dog laid over in the neighbors yard, just watching us. The PD said if he wasn't bothering, couldn't do anything, however, if he came back into the garage after me, I could shoot him, "Just don't let him get out of your yard." I started packing a .357 on my hip, and a short barreled 12 ga. was in the garage too. The long and short of this: The neighbor had the PD out after them 6 or 7 times for dog bites, coming into peoples garages, they went to court and the judge had the dog put down. I didn't want to shoot the dog, but determined if he came into the garage again, it was lights out ! Someone mentioned pepper spray. At a Jax Sporting Goods Store, locally, they carry a pepper spray for bears! This spray bottle looks like a fire ext., and the type of pepper used in it is 50% stronger than what police carry! I guess, if its good enough for a bear, a dog won't take more than that!

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I get my cane ready and charge toward them about 3 steps 90% of the time they have broken off the attack the other times they got a violent wack across the head or back with the cane. My Solid Brass headed cane has ruined a few dogs days.

I have been bitten 2 times all before I was 12 but not since cause I will kill them before I let them bite me anymore. I love dogs and have owned one or more most of my life but I will not tolerate any unleashed out of control dogs.