DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF

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Owen Sparks

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Why do we need the ATF?
Aren't laws they enforce already covered by state and federal laws?

It seems like the more agencies there are, the more out of hand things tend to get. That is just my opinion. I know it's not worth much.:(
 
On the surface, I strongly hope this happens...my only concern is how effective various other aspects of their duties will be accomplished. NFA paperwork processing, FFL paperwork, etc, etc. If other agencies handle it effectively, hopefully better, then this would really be great.
 
Sure, when pigs fly.
When was the last time a federal agency got eliminated?
Even if the ATF were somehow "eliminated", some other worthless bureau will spring up.
 
I'd rather have the FBI do it then the DEA.

Heh.

DEAF.
(Drug Enforcement Agency with Firearms)

What they should do is split it.
Give the AT to the DEA and the F to the FBI
 
Long ago ATF was under Treasury, because their task involved collecting taxes. Not a bad idea to move them back.
As for the likelihood of it happening, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
A sad state of affairs this BATFE has turned into. First started as a tax collecting agency, it morphed into a murdering band. When they aren't murdering religious fanatics, they seem to be enabling Mexican drug cartels to kill Mexicans and US Border agents.

It doesn't need to be divided or simply divested of power, it needs to be destroyed. It's unconstitutional anyway. The Constitution doesn't authorize Congress to create these regulatory agencies. Article I, Section 1, states that all legislative powers shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives. Since those powers have been vested as such, Congress can not divest themselves of that power, and that is not an interpretation, it's simple to read and understand English.

Every rule or regulation(laws, actually) created by any regulatory agency is unconstitutional, and therefore, null and void. Any enforcement action involving any rule or regulation created by a regulatory agency is also unconstitutional. These rules and regulations might as well be forced upon us by a foreign government for all the legitimacy they have here. We go along simply to keep the jack-booted thugs off our backs.

This bureaucratic boondoggle we find ourselves in is a result of Congress taking on(usurping) powers it does not have any legitimate claim to. If the feral(federal) government were stripped of all these illegitimate powers and the agencies created to "administer" those powers, Congress would have something to do besides run for office, diddle interns, and place the blame for everything that goes wrong on one agency or another. They'd have to accept and deal with the responsibility they were elected to.

I could go on and on, but this thread is not the place.

Woody
 
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I remember in the early to mid-90s the U.S. Geological Survey (yes, the venerable USGS) almost got dumped due to budget cuts. Glad that never happened. I think losing yet another firearm-centric federal LE agency makes oodles more sense than one of the best and most important science/research organizations in the world going bye-bye.
 
The question is: What will they replace it WITH? The Department of Disarmament/Department of Firearm Confiscation/Department of Firearms Enforcement/etc.? The only way they'll get rid of ATF is if they ban booze, smokes, and guns.
 
Be careful what you wish for. If the ATF's functions got transferred to the FBI, for example, it would be harder for gun advocacy groups, such as the NRA, to monitor the activities. Right now, the NRA can effectively veto confirmation of the ATF Director. They won't be able to do this for the Director of the FBI.

As long as the underlying law is not changed, "abolishing" or renaming agencies is just a game of musical chairs.
 
Administratively, it would be more efficient to combine them all and start whittling.
The alphabet groups are departmentalized to the point that noncommunication is their worst enemy.
Isn't the Department of Justice the head of the dragon? 'Course, budgets being what they are and the ever growing number of federal workers seem to never end. Both Republicans and Democrats. 'Fraid to shoot in the dark cause you can't ell 'em apart.
 
I cannot believe that the ATF would go away without another agency being created or being altered in a way that makes this even worse for gun owners. But maybe I'm wrong. I would love to be wrong.
 
The proper way to get rid of the ATF is to repeal the laws they enforce, they become totally redundant and would not need any funding...By By...

Same goes for the DEA and the rest of these "agencies" that have no legit purpose except to sustain themselves. I include the BIA in that too. Native Americans are totally capable of conducting their own affairs, with their own funds.
 
I'd like to see it happen -- their tax duties could go to the IRS, and such law enforcement duties as they legitimately have to the FBI.

And the IRS and FBI, seeing what happened to ATFE might take a lesson.
 
Allow the states their rights! Let individual states outline their own firearm regulations.


Sorry, if you live in blue state.
 
Wow! I think I'll have a big slug of some untaxed moonshine, light up an
untaxed Pall Mall and clean this firearm that I bought at a trailer park
from an immigrant that is hastily leaving the state. ;)
 
If it gets eliminated, it will only be passed on to one of the other branches, which will make a division specifically for it.

Still, it would be easier to keep things consistent and constitutional, if it was somewhere that had to keep better paper trails and that had to answer to someone higher up before passing arbitrary laws.
 
First, DOJ can't do this unilaterally. Elimination of BATFE will require congressional action (the budget for ATF would be required to be eliminated).

Second, don't wish for something where you don't understand the outcome. The issue with the ATF is not with the agents and line workers. ATF is based in DC as are all federal agencies. DC is a far left liberal biased city. This is what is wrong with the ATF. The management are all from DC. DC is a bastion of Gun Control. You would be hard pressed to find a DC resident who doesn't support gun control. ATF Management reflects these views, as do the DEA, FBI..... (all federal agencies).

For the last 20 years progressives have been in control in DC. Progressives want to restrict access to firearms. (This is why no presidential candidate has stood up on this issue). Progressive views dominate the management of the federal agencies. Most progressives don't respect the constitution.

IMO, if you move the ATF mission to another agency best case we would see no difference. Worse case, the agency would deal with law abiding firearm owners in a more punitive fashion.

Now, I would support moving ATF back to Treasury. ATF should not be tied to DOJ. DOJ has become the most radical federal agency aside from the EPA, the Dept of Education, and the NLRB.
 
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