Don't Care About Bullet-Type?

[ArchAngelCD]

Remington UMC 9mm ammo that uses their "rose pedal" bullet works extremely well and cost only pennies more per round than their FMJ ammo. No reason not to use the JHP ammo. (FMJ = $15.99/50, JHP = $17.99/50 MidwayUSA) Similar price differences hold true for their .38 Special ammo and others.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
If that's like the old Remington 115 grain JHP, that's the gold standard.. the profile is perfect for feeding, it expands reliably and holds together. It's a killer.

 

[1911 guy]

I carry Federal Hydra-Shock in my carry gun. However, I wouldn't feel under gunned if all I had was FMJ. So I guess I have a preference, but not a requirement.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
Maybe you should lung shoot a deer with those FMJ's, were it legal.. you'd likely change your mind.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Whatever JHP brand I handload works for me.

 

[R.W.Dale]

^
Maybe you should lung shoot a deer with those FMJ's, were it legal.. you'd likely change your mind.

A lung short deer with a jhp that doesn't pass thru and therefore provide a blood trail giving exit will not be an outstanding outcome either.

Both will run but you'll only recover the animal with an exit wound




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[Certaindeaf]

A lung short deer with a jhp that doesn't pass thru and therefore provide a blood trail giving exit will not be an outstanding outcome either.

Both will run but you'll only recover the animal with an exit wound.

What? Like I said, just shoot a deer through the lungs with the precious FMJ. Many rifle hunting rounds are not pass throughs.
If you want a good hole through the animal with a pistol, use a good hollow point or SWC.
No skin off my nose one way or another.

 

[plateshooter]

I use JHP in my 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45acp. I use 158gr cast swc in my 5 shot 637 S&W 38 snub.

 

[kozak6]

It's not that big a deal. Shoot a box or two of the good stuff to make sure your pistol likes it, and keep a little bit for carry.

Even if you "dispose" of rounds after they have been rechambered a few times, a box should last long enough for it not to really matter.

 

[David E]

I just started carrying (a Glock 19) a bit over a week ago. For now, I don't care. I'm fully conceded to the shot placement > ammo/bullet design/caliber thing. My mags are loaded with American Eagle 124gr FMJ. Inexpensive ammo that functions flawlessly

There are multiple reasons law enforcement agencies all across the nation do NOT use fmj for the street. The NYPD did initially for their then-new Glocks, but decided it wasn't worth it. Maybe some lawsuits or failures to stop changed their mind, but I'm sure YOU will place each shot with surgical precision and never have over penetration issues.

And apparently your ONE WEEK of carrying a gun has given you an insightful perspective everyone else has inexplicably overlooked.

 

[burnse]

This needs another option. Bullet type certainly should matter to everyone - especially as different designs/shapes/weights are better suited to different tasks, but the notion of "Only the best" is very subjective in my mind.

For me, personally, I can find no reason not to go with some nice, old-fashioned lead. I, however, do not push anything too fast. I prefer revolvers in .44 and .45, with the rounds going at velocities around 800 ft/s. I know for a fact they serve me well at the range, and I am confident in their ability to do what must be done, should a defensive situation call them to use.

Do I understand the advantages of JHPs, and why it makes plenty of sense for people to carry them, hunt with them, etc? Absolutely. Do I prefer the old tech, as I find it enjoyable, and as it certainly still works for my intended purposes? Absolutely.

That is why I answered "Yes" in the poll, but my idea of best is not premium factory loads. My idea of best is a softer lead bullet with a decent weight and a nice, wide, flat face with which to meet the target.

I do have yet to fire some gold dots out of my .44 special.

 

[mgmorden]

The overpenetration issue is one that I've thought about lately.

I didn't have to pull my gun, but there was a guy at a gas station who appeared to be on drugs who got confrontational with me last week (I didn't even speak to him but apparently in his mind I had offended him because he was yelling all manner of obscenities).

I ignored him and he walked away (never got closer than about 12-15 feet), but as I analyzed the situation I realized that if I had needed to use my gun, he was standing in front of me and behind him was a 4-lane road with traffic going by.

In that situation not only would EVERY shot have to count, but any over-penetration could have some serious repercussions. With that in mind FMJ is just a no-go. Outside of that though I don't worry too much about the specific type of hollowpoints in the gun. Some of them even have a mix of different brands in the carry mags.

 

[Bobson]

And apparently your ONE WEEK of carrying a gun has given you an insightful perspective everyone else has inexplicably overlooked.

Apparently your five minutes of reading my post wasn't enough to help you comprehend that absolutely nothing about this thread suggests that I believe my method is superior. Then again, I guess there are those who only visit this board when on the lookout for an argument. You must have confused me with you.

Oh wait.

 

[David E]

absolutely nothing about this thread suggests that I believe my method is superior.

What struck me about your OP, and you just confirmed it here, is that you KNOW it's a stupid thing to do......yet you do it anyway!

And only to save a few pennies. This is a major case of misplaced priorities, rationalized by your imagined ability to place each round with precision on moving, dodging targets that are actively trying to kill you.

I hope it works out for you.

 

[Bobson]

What struck me about your OP, and you just confirmed it here, is that you KNOW it's a stupid thing to do......yet you do it anyway!

I didn't say I "know it's a stupid thing to do," I said I didn't start this thread to fuel arguments. Frankly, as I said in my first post, I remain unconvinced that JHPs are truly better - based on a combination of the following points:

1. I see comment after comment on this board and elsewhere on the net, where people make claims like, "It's obvious! JHPs will stop when they hit drywall/plywood/etc in homes, so over-penetration isn't an issue!!!11!" Or, "Ammo manufacturers and others have conducted so many tests proving that FMJ over-penetrates, and JHPs don't." The thing is, for every claim like these (always without a single cited source of the "information"), you'll find another claim refuting it.

2. The fact is I'm yet to ever actually see any of these tests, and trying to find anything other than gelatin or water tests online has proved impossible so far. Gelatin isn't flesh, plywood, or sheetrock; it is, for all intents and purposes, firm jello. In addition, for every comment I've seen by people stating that JHPs will collapse when FMJ won't (which would prevent over-penetration), I've seen another comment saying JHPs will "clog up" and function exactly like FMJs - even on basic cotton clothing.

If, by some chance, you do have a link to a video where someone tests penetration in plywood or sheetrock, comparing FMJs and JHPs, I'd love to see it. IMO this type of test, conducted properly, would give far more useful information than shooting ballistic gelatin - at least as far as over-penetration is concerned.

3. Then there's also the testimony of numerous medical professionals who insist that FMJs are the most consistent man-stoppers, based on cases seen in hospitals. A few quick links to a couple of those opinions can be found here, here, and here - all three are posts on THR.

 

[smalls]

It's not the cost that determines what I carry, it's the performance. 9mm has a tendency to over penetrate, so JHP's is what I carry. Not because the thinking "it's expensive, so it must be the best".

 

[coolluke01]

I don't think it's necessary to spend $1 a round to get good SD HP's.

After a great deal of reading I have settled on Winchester Ranger T's. 9mm 147 grn.

I shot them into a pail of water, they are wicked looking!

I bought them for .50c a round. I don't think that's too expensive. I do think twice before shooting a squirrel in my yard with them however. I've still shot everyone that I've seen so far, oh, and a grouse today.

FMJ is just looking for trouble.

 

[MrCleanOK]

Am I opposed to carrying high quality JHP? Of course not. But I wont pay $1 per round for it, that's for sure. I'm just not convinced that it makes that much more of a difference.

Take empty milk cartons filled with water to the range with you. Shoot one with FMJ, then shoot the other with JHP. See for yourself why JHP bullets are the preferred choice for self defense. I understand that self defense ammunition is more expensive, but when you buy one box to shoot through your weapon to ensure it feeds, then load up a second box into your carry magazines, it really doesn't cost that much.

Box of 50 American Eagle FMJ ammo - $12.29
50 rounds of Hornady critical defense - $44.00

Averaged over a year, that JHP ammunition will cost you $.08 a day over the FMJ stuff, and it is considerably more effective and safer should you ever have to use it to defend yourself.

Your concerns about penetration through typical consttruction materials are spot on. Hollowpoint pistol ammunition tends to just fill the cavity and punch on through just like ball ammo. The difference is that it won't do that through a person. If you have to shoot an intruder in your home, a FMJ will go right on through, and have enough energy on the exit side to keep going through walls. A JHP will have expanded, and if it has enough energy to exit, it will do so with lower velocity and lower sectional density than the FMJ bullet. The fact that a JHP and a FMJ are functionally the same if they hit a wall first is not a good reason to carry the less effective of the two.

 

[Noah]

I think carrying a gun loaded with FMJs is not the end of the world, but, like others said, since some quality JHP for maybe 65-75 cents a round would be a one time purchase of maybe 50-100 rounds, I think it is just silly to not buy it. Superior stopping power/energy transfer, and even more important to me, less likely to over penetrate buildings or bad guys alike.

Buy a few boxes of JHPs, function test, and then carry and stuff. Use cheapo FMJ for plinking and practice as much as you want- more is better!

 

[Rexster]

The one defensive cartridge I have fired was the best JHP for its day, and not too shabby for today. I am glad to have had it, as it chopped an impressive wound channel, that did not close like most bullet wounds I have seen. (I wear a big-city PD badge.) In my closely-spaced neighborhood, with 1950s houses that have cedar shake exteriors and thin walls, the only safe backstop is the body of a felon, and I want the bullet to stay inside his body; there is no way I would launch 9mm FMJ ammo, or any other FMJ above .380 ACP, and feel good about it. I like my neighbors!

My wife is the most exerienced forensic investigator for of of the largest M.E. offices in the USA. (Field investigator, not morgue doc) She, too, believes in using premium JHP ammo. Blood spatter evidence is a science; it tells the tale of how far and fast a bleeding person moved after being hit.

 

[FMF Doc]

I do both. These days, when the world is only on the verge of going totally crazy, I carry 124gr Remington golden sabres or Hornady TAP. These are, in my opion, at the top of the quality ladder. They may not be THE BEST, but I don't think anyone would fault me for carrying them. But, should things ever get out of control, I have a stock of about 2000 much cheaper 115gr Remington UMC JHP. They are no where near top of the line but they beat FMJ, and I can buy them by the case.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Then there's also the testimony of numerous medical professionals who insist that FMJs are the most consistent man-stoppers, based on cases seen in hospitals. A few quick links to a couple of those opinions can be found here, here, and here - all three are posts on THR.

The internet is great. Maybe shoot a varmint or some big game with a jhp or swc and then a fmj rn and take notes your own self. it's fairly laughable

 

[mljdeckard]

I think that the difference isn't as great as some people believe it is. But it is a difference, and you need all the advantages you can get.

 

[mljdeckard]

And I really need to roll my eyes a little bit when you guys are so sure that ANY bullet will stop in the bad guy. And what about the ones that don't hit?

 

[R.W.Dale]

And I really need to roll my eyes a little bit when you guys are so sure that ANY bullet will stop in the bad guy. And what about the ones that don't hit?

As my previous comments lack of attention attest to we really don't want to think about that.

Am I the only one who finds all these examples of folks of the mentality that they RELY on jhp's not overpenatrating a bit scary




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