Don't Talk to Police (5th Admendment)

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Remember that the authorities have people that are trained to do everything- detectives, investigators, crime scene techs, prosecuting attorneys, etc. These people do this daily. What is YOUR level of experience? Some of these people are even lawyers, so just based on that, it may be a good idea to get one of your own. Remember, even the police use lawyers when they are involved in shootings. Take a look at the constitution- those are your rights. Why would anyone willingly forfeit any of them- especially when the stakes are so high? Also research how many people went to jail because of the big noise making hole in the center of their face.
 
Remember that the authorities have people that are trained to do everything- detectives, investigators, crime scene techs, prosecuting attorneys, etc. These people do this daily. What is YOUR level of experience? Some of these people are even lawyers, so just based on that, it may be a good idea to get one of your own. Remember, even the police use lawyers when they are involved in shootings. Take a look at the constitution- those are your rights. Why would anyone willingly forfeit any of them- especially when the stakes are so high? Also research how many people went to jail because of the big noise making hole in the center of their face.
Yes, you will certainly need an attorney, but other than that, what are you suggesting?
 
Kleanbore- I guess I didn't make myself clear. Don't talk to the authorities when the stakes are high. The lawyer that you need can do that, since its his/her job, and what you pay him/her to do. It makes their job harder (and more expensive) when you have said something that they end up having to fix. Talking your way out of a low-stakes traffic ticket- different story.
 
The Fifth Amendment only protects one against being compelled to testify against himself in a criminal case, not against talking with police, and the Supreme Court has ruled that one's silence may be used against him (Salinas v. Texas, No. 12–246, 2013).
So, let me see if I have this correct...
For some reason the police wrongly believe that I've robbed a bank and interrogate me on the subject. I refuse to answer any questions.

Are you saying that this silence can be used against me?

"Did you rob that bank?"
"I'm claiming the Fifth Amendment on that, officer."

And then later on at trial,
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Mr. Citizen was asked by the police if he robbed that bank and refused to answer. Therefore, we ask you to find him guilty, thank you."
 
Kleanbore- I guess I didn't make myself clear. Don't talk to the authorities when the stakes are high. The lawyer that you need can do that, since its his/her job, and what you pay him/her to do. It makes their job harder (and more expensive) when you have said something that they end up having to fix. Talking your way out of a low-stakes traffic ticket- different story.
Yes, but it's been pointed out in this thread & others that defending a shooting on SD grounds is markedly different form defending a garden-variety crime. The SD shooter really needs to get the investigation off on the right foot. The garden variety criminal hopes that there never is an investigation.

If the SD shooter is charged and claims SD, he or she will have to admit to having shot someone and will almost certainly have to produce some evidence that the shooting was, in fact, a matter of SD. That means being able to point out evidence and witnesses to the police, before those things vanish forever.
 
FL-NC said:
...Don't talk to the authorities when the stakes are high. The lawyer that you need can do that, since its his/her job, and what you pay him/her to do. It makes their job harder (and more expensive) when you have said something that they end up having to fix....
And several knowledgeable people have explained how not saying anything at all could make the lawyer's job more difficult, and the outcome more uncertain, if one is claiming self defense.

No, don't say the wrong things. But do understand and be prepared to say the right things.
 
4thPointOfContact said:
...Are you saying that this silence can be used against me?

"Did you rob that bank?"
"I'm claiming the Fifth Amendment on that, officer."...
Explicitly asserting your Fifth Amendment Rights is not silence. You didn't keep silent. You said the magic words under the Salinas test. You should really try reading the case to understand it.

But in any case not saying the the rights things won't help and can hurt you when claiming self defense.
 
The lawyer that you need can do that, since its his/her job, and what you pay him/her to do. It makes their job harder (and more expensive) when you have said something that they end up having to fix.
Frank and Spats have explained the problem with that idea. Let me try this:

Your attorney cannot present evidence on your behalf if he or she does not have it, and you will need evidence to mount a defense of justification.

The officers who first arrive at the scene will have no reason to look for evidence indicating justified self defense, and one cannot rely on their making note of it.. That evidence may well disappear from the scene. Empty cartilage cases from you attacker's gun may be picked up in the tread of someone's boot, for may roll into a storm drain, A knife may be picked up by the attacker's accomplice.

The arriving officers, who had not been there, will not have known that a particular person or persons witnessed the incident, and they will not know to isolate them and question them before they disappear.

Your failure to point these things out at the scene and at the time might well seal your fate.

These things were explained in Post #3 and in the link therein.

The importance of the subject is such that one really should try to absorb and understand these things.
 
"..Are you saying that this silence can be used against me?"
"Did you rob that bank?"
"I'm claiming the Fifth Amendment on that, officer."...

Explicitly asserting your Fifth Amendment Rights is not silence. You didn't keep silent. You said the magic words under the Salinas test. You should really try reading the case to understand it.

This may be off on a slight tangent from the main topic, but when taking the 5th, must one specifically mention the 5th Amendment? Seems to me that I saw something a few years ago in another source that indicated that if one only says "I refuse to answer that" without ever mentioning the 5th, that your 5th Amendment rights might not fully apply.
 
cjwils said:
"..Are you saying that this silence can be used against me?"
"Did you rob that bank?"
"I'm claiming the Fifth Amendment on that, officer."...

Explicitly asserting your Fifth Amendment Rights is not silence. You didn't keep silent. You said the magic words under the Salinas test. You should really try reading the case to understand it.

This may be off on a slight tangent from the main topic, but when taking the 5th, must one specifically mention the 5th Amendment? Seems to me that I saw something a few years ago in another source that indicated that if one only says "I refuse to answer that" without ever mentioning the 5th, that your 5th Amendment rights might not fully apply.
Here's what the Supreme Court said Salinas v. Texas, 133 S.Ct. 2174, 186 L. Ed. 2d 376, 81 USLW 4467 (2013) (133 S.Ct. 2174, at 2177 --2178):
Without being placed in custody or receiving Miranda warnings, petitioner voluntarily answered the questions of a police officer who was investigating a murder. But petitioner balked when the officer asked whether a ballistics test would show that the shell casings found at the crime scene would match petitioner's shotgun. Petitioner was subsequently charged with murder, and at trial prosecutors argued that his reaction to the officer's question suggested that he was guilty. Petitioner claims that this argument violated the Fifth Amendment, which guarantees that “[n]o person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.”

Petitioner's Fifth Amendment claim fails because he did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination in response to the officer's question. It has long been settled that the privilege “generally is not self-executing” and that a witness who desires its protection “ ‘must claim it.’ ” Minnesota v. Murphy, 465 U.S. 420, 425, 427, 104 S.Ct. 1136, 79 L.Ed.2d 409 (1984) (quoting United States v. Monia, 317 U.S. 424, 427, 63 S.Ct. 409, 87 L.Ed. 376 (1943)). Although “no ritualistic formula is necessary in order to invoke the privilege,” Quinn v. United States, 349 U.S. 155, 164, 75 S.Ct. 668, 99 L.Ed. 964 (1955), a witness does not do so by simply standing mute. Because petitioner was required to assert the privilege in order to benefit from it, the judgment of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals rejecting petitioner's Fifth Amendment claim is affirmed....

It's clear that under Salinas, explicitly saying, "I invoke my rights under the Fifth Amendment and decline to answer." would be sufficient to prevent a prosecutor from commenting on the refusal to answer; and it's clear that some sorts of alternate statements could also be effective. However, it's not clear exactly what alternate statements would necessarily be effective.
 
After a SD/HD shooting, what about just telling the officers (esp. if you are NOT "under arrest/detention") that you are "exhausted from the stress of the situation and will be willing to talk with them after you have had some rest and contacted your attorney".

Simple, succinct, and probably completely honest.
 
After a SD/HD shooting, what about just telling the officers (esp. if you are NOT "under arrest/detention") that you are "exhausted from the stress of the situation and will be willing to talk with them after you have had some rest and contacted your attorney".

Simple, succinct, and probably completely honest.
It think that the moderators already explained in posts 3, 4, 10, 21, 30, 31 and 33 why this may be a problematic strategy.
 
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