CTGunner said:
Don't Talk to the Cops - Videos
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7N...eature=related
I just finished watching this video series and I have a question about self defense outside your home. Should you be involved in a self defense shooting, let's just say as an example in the parking lot of a gas station, how do you effectively execute the "Don't talk to the Cops Strategy".
1. Do you call 911? If so, what do you say? Does calling 911 constitute talking to the police?
2. Police arrive at the scene and there is a small crowd of people gathered but no witnesses. Do you ask the police to arrest you? Wait for them to find you?
3. What does it mean to 'not cooperate with an investigation' and is it a crime?
I have heard folks say that you file the complaint and claim self defense BUT this seems contrary to what the lawyer and cop in the video are advising.
Short answers:
1a) Yes, you should call 911 if you are involved in a defensive shooting.
1b) Try saying something like: "
I was just attacked and involved in a shooting. I need the police and an ambulance. I'm at [insert location] and I'm wearing [insert clothing]. I'll put my gun down before the officers get here."
1c) Seriously, you might not want to take EVERYTHING you see on Youtube to heart. You can certainly play the games advocated on ACLU-type "get me out of a pot charge" videos when you are involved in a defensive shooting, or you can use a bit of cautious discretion in answering questions about the incident. I wouldn't recommend the "zero cooperation" stance that most of these videos advocate.
2a) Why in the world would you ask the police to arrest you? Did you just commit a crime? Do you want them to think that you are saying that you just committed a crime?
2b) You should identify yourself when officers arrive, make sure they know you are not a threat to them, and tell them that you shot the person in self defense. Don't try to hide, as there is no way that will come out looking good for you. And, if you end up handcuffed at this stage, don't automatically assume that you are being arrested or charged with a crime... in a sense it is still an investigative detention at this point.
3) I don't have the stomach to watch that video AGAIN (it has shown up here more than a few times), and can't recall the exact part you referenced in this question. I can tell you this much:
-If you intentionally provide false information you will probably be charged with a crime.
-If you refuse to cooperate entirely (ex: not telling the officers a
basic idea of what happened) you will likely be arrested and placed on a hold for aggravated assault/homicide charges.
-You won't get in legal trouble for failing to incriminate yourself, and you should use some common sense in determining how much you say.
-Remember that you shouldn't get your legal advice from a video on youtube, or a guy/gal replying to your thread on a gun forum.
There is a lot of doom-n-gloom talk on these forums about all of the horrible things that will allegedly happen to you if you speak to the police after a defensive shooting. Truth be told, at each step of the investigation the incident is going to be judged based on the facts that are available to those who are investigating the matter (whether that is an officer at the scene, a detective the next day, a district attorney reviewing the shooting the following week, or a judge/jury in a court room a year or two later).
I would strongly suggest that anyone who finds themselves in this type of situation provide some cooperation to the responding officers. You SHOULD provide some limited explanation for what happened, but only enough to indicate that you were a victim, rather than a murderer. The detailed interview will certainly take place later, after you speak to your lawyer, and quite possibly with your lawyer present.
The police understand your concerns (and your rights) following a defensive shooting, as it is the same set of circumstances that we deal with after an officer involved shooting. I'd at least let them know that you fired your weapon in defense of your life! Officers in my department are trained to provide basic details about their shootings while at the scene, and are pretty much advised to politely "shut up" after that point, and wait until they can speak to their lawyer. I think most citizens are well-served to follow this plan of action if they are ever involved in a shooting!
You should still expect that you'll be taken 'downtown' for an interview following a defensive shooting, but you don't have to expect that you'll be booked on charges for "investigation of 1st degree murder", or the like. Before the detailed interview, politely tell the officers that you'd like to speak to a lawyer before talking about the incident. Also, realize that when you hear your Miranda Rights, you are generally at the point where you'll want to consider asking for a lawyer.
Just because it might be helpful to know this, here is the procedure following an officer-involved shooting in my department (a citizen will often go through a similar chain of events):
1) Involved officer gives a brief explanation of the crime scene while at the scene.
2) Officer is transported back to the office, and is kept segregated from other officers until a detective with IA/homicide can arrive. The officer's gun is collected for evidence, and other involved officers/witnesses are also seperated.
3) Officer will eventually be read his/her Miranda Rights, and will be asked for an interview. Usually the officer has already requested a lawyer by this point. Regardless, the officer typically won't provide the interview until after it is cleared through his/her lawyer.
4) The case is eventually presented to the district attorney's office for legal review, and the DA will decide whether or not the officer is being charged with a crime.
We recently had a case in my department where a citizen shot a home invasion robber. I've spoken to this homeowner extensively since that incident, and this citizen was subject to a very similar procedure to the one that officers go through following a shooting. This victim provided a basic explanation at the scene, spoke to their lawyer later, then provided a detailed interview with the lawyer's consent. The case was later presented to the DA, and the DA determined that the homeowner was in the clear. The citizen was never booked into jail, though they were transported to the station for an interview.
I didn't see this reply until after typing mine, but it is very sound advice:
Which is why I like Massad Ayoob's recommendation.
* Say something like, "That person, or those people, attacked me." You are thus immediately identifying yourself as the victim.
* Say something like, "I will sign a complaint." You are thus immediately identifying the other person(s) as the criminal(s).
* Point out possible evidence, especially evidence that may not be immediate apparent. You don't want any such evidence to be missed.
* Point out possible witnesses.
* Then say something like, "Officer, you know how serious this is. I'm not going to say anything more right now. You'll have my full cooperation in 24 hours, after I've talked with my lawyer."
No.
