Don't think a 1911 is for me.

[stretcharmstrong]

If you were willing to spend as much for the Loaded but liked the feel/appearance of the mil-spec, why not just get the mil-spec and put the $100 towards a trigger job if it doesn't start to smooth out? I'm sure the trigger will smooth out quite a bit w/use. You may want to try and handle a couple different mil-spec's and see if one might have a slightly better trigger out of the box. If you find one w/a better trigger, put the money saved towards some nice grips.

As far as making the grip feel a little bigger, on my Kimber I was going to do one of 2 things. I started w/the cheaper and that was added Pierce rubber finger grooves (that work w/my existing grips) to the frontstrap. Worked great so I didn't do the second. I notice much better control of the pistol and felt recoil is less. The second, which I think is better looking, would be to add an arched mainspring housing. I got the idea from handling a Springfield mil-spec 1911-A1, where it comes standard.

 

[Climb14er]

A 1911, at least to me, is not only

a work of art, it can be, in many instances, a really finicky, needy, piece of steel with parts.

If you as most others who have looked at production guns, you can tell which ones will 'usually' give you problems. I've had my fair share of them and have opted to sell the ones that I couldn't stand to be around any longer.

After a lot of searching, I 'think' that I found a 1911 that I could actually hold on to for a long time. Only time will tell.

It's a new Dan Wesson Patriot Marksman, blued, fixed sights, incredibly tight, very accurate, well made, smooth, match barrel, and very 'attractive'. It has no firing pin safety block, is a Series 70 design, has a reliable external extractor and comes with a lifetime warranty. Yes, I know that Dan Wesson has gone through changes. However, this time, I believe they're on to something with excellent quality and attention to customer service and detail.

I have been looking at a Valtro but being that I've never seen one and the price is twice what I paid for the DW, I decided to pass on the Valtro, for now.

Personally speaking, I carry an HK as I know HK's to be reliable, accurate and basically indestructible. AND, I am having fun with the new DW Patriot 1911 .45 ACP.

Good luck on your search.

 

[TheEgg]

Matter of Taste

I love 1911s but it does not bother me one bit if someone else does not! Everyone has preferences, their hands are different, different features on a gun have more or less importance to different people, etc. Buy what you like!

However, one thing that bothers me a little when the discussion turns to 1911s is this: A 1911 is a design, not a specific product. There are dozens of different guns made to this basic design, by dozens of different companies. They are not like a SIG for example -- if someone references a SIG 220, it is a reference to a specific model from a specific manufacturer - Colt, SA, Kimber, etc. do not make their own interpretation of a SIG 220.

So when people say that "I bought a Norinco 1911 and it was junk -- I will never buy another 1911 again", I think they are making a mistake. They had an interpretation of the 1911 design made by Norinco that they had little luck with, but that does NOT mean that there is anything inherently wrong with the 1911 design.

In additon, one the the main reasons I like the design is that it is fairly easy to purchase/build a gun that is exactly like YOU want. A lot a people like to purhase a gun and just shoot it -- that is fine with me. But a 1911 lends itself to tinkering, customizing, tuning, etc. which other people like. That is fine too.

Like I said, it boils down to taste in most cases. A quality 1911 can be a spectacular weapon, but it is not the ONLY spectacular weapon -- and a badly made 1911 can be a nightmare, as can any other handgun that is badly made.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I tend to question the reliability of anything that's "match grade" or is overly tightly fitted; sure, it might reliably cycle ammunition. How does it hold up it if gets dirty? Coated in fine, powdery dust? Rained on? What happens if it gets muddy?

These things are important to me. I like my guns to be field-grade, meaning, they'll work when you're out in the bush, the dirt, and the snow, as well as when you're on the street and they're nice and clean.

 

[TheEgg]

Based on my personal experience

All but one of my 1911s work under very dirty conditions. I have fired them in dust storms, muddy conditions, rain, etc. I have also, for a test, fired them until they stopped working due to crud -- this usually takes about 600 rounds or more. I have NOT, however, ever tried to intentionally jam them by immersing them in the mud, or sand, or gravel, or what-have-you. If you want to or need to do that, GET A GLOCK.



Oh, by the way, the ones that I do have occasional trouble with are the 3" bbl version guns. I know a lot of people do NOT have trouble with them, but I have. I think they are fun to play with, but I would not trust them for serious work.

 

[BigG]

"Man's gotta know his limitations." Clint Eastwood
(Sorry, Nightcrawler, couldn't resist!)

Good luck on finding a suitable piece!

 

[Sgt]

Geez, twice in one thread people have gotten mad at me. It's not my fault the Springfield Mil-spec I handled had a crappy trigger. It's not my fault the Valtro offers features I don't really want at a price I can't really afford. Don't be mad at me, be mad at the situation!

Nightcrawler, I realize that it's not your fault that Springfield had a bad trigger....it is your fault however, that just because the one you held wasn't to your liking, you have assumed that they are all bad and all the CZ's are good. Frankly, you need more experience with a wider variety of weapons and then maybe you'll be able to see the big picture. I personally don't care what you shoot, since you won't be helping me defend my family. While I have many years experience shooting lots and lots of firearms, I haven't fired them all and therefore my opinions are just that...opinions.... I know that there are many types of weapons out there and really it's all a matter of what fits you....and the 1911 fits me to a "T" I only own 4 of them, a Colt Combat Commander, a Para P-10, a Kimber Ultra Carry and a Springfield Loaded Mil-Spec Ultra Compact, which by the way...has the best out of the box trigger I've ever seen on a service grade semi-auto. One of these is always with me...I don't sleep unless at least one of these is within arms reach!! And someday I just might get me a Valtro, or a Wilson, etc. etc....and do you know why? Because this is AMERICA and I can, that's why...

Good Luck with your Eastern Block weapon....I'll just stick to a classic John Moses Browning design and and be glad we have the right to disagree.... Semper Fi, Sgt

 

[Nightcrawler]

I didn't say that all 1911s have bad triggers; I know this to be untrue. In fact, the Charles Daly I owned had a great trigger; a much better trigger, in fact, than that one Springfield had. As I said, the Springfield Loaded had a very nice trigger.

I never said anything of the sort, about all 1911s being bad and all CZs being good. Nothing even implying that. I simply said that my CZ-97 had a better trigger out of the box than that Springfield Mil-Spec I handled.

As for my eastern block weapon...was that meant to be derrogatory? The CZ is a private company, now, and the 97 wasn't designed until 1997, well after the fall of communisim and the end of Czeckoslovokia.

I will point out that your Springfield is acutally made by Imbel of Brazil. Valtros are made in Italy. Paras are made in Canada. *shrug* Canada's more socialist than the Czech Republic is.

As for John Browning...well, he bascially designed the CZ-97, too. The CZ-75 is based on the Hi-Power, and the 97 is an enlarged 75, so...yeah, it's got Browning in it. Most handguns do, as a matter of fact, since the Browning design for a breech locked handgun just works so well.

 

[Sgt]

Paras are made in Canada. *shrug* Canada's more socialist than the Czech Republic is.

No argument there....ok, ok, I read you wrong...you're not an idiot...just an opinionated pain in the....like me...

And yes the eastern bloc thing was meant to be derogatory I have listened to soooo many people talk up the AK-47, etc....and I know they're decent weapons.....but damn it, I'm an American and I ain't going for it... LOL

I know where my springys parts came from and I know where my para was made......I deliberated long and hard over both...but I figured the Colt & Kimber...not to mention all those Ruger wheelguns more than make up for those two.....

Anyway, have a great day Nightcrawler.....Sgt

 

[DAL]

If you shoot well with the CZ97, don't worry about a 1911. Personally, I REALLY enjoy shooting my Rock Island Armory cheapie full-size 1911, but that's just me. Give yourself some more time and take a look at a 1911 again next year. In the meantime, stock up on ammo and enjoy your CZ97 (which is much too big for my hand).
DAL

 

[Pendragon]

The Valtro may be "made in Italy" but it is made to Jardines exacting specs and he does the crucial final fitting on them.

A 1911 that is made properly (I will leave it at that ) wil be tightly fitted, and both accurate and reliable. Those two qualities are not exclusive.

I do agree with most of what has been said. However, I would like to address your comments on cars.

This from a guy who has had a lot of different cars and now drives a 1987 Honda Accord 4 door. (dont laugh, its paid for).

My Ferrari to Mustang analogy was intended to convery that the Valtro is more than just a good 1911. It is a gun that is made by a master craftsman who has a life long passion for 1911s.

If you only want a car that will attain a certain speed, you can do so for a relatively small ammount of money. If that is your goal, the Ferrari is not for you. If you want a car that is fast, beautiful, rare, and built with people who are madly in love with the automobile and spend all their time thinking about how to make it better in some way, then you buy a Ferrari.

If all you want is a 1911 pattern gun that has a good trigger and is reliable, you can get that for well under the price of a Valtro.

I am a pragmatic person my nature, but I have had a lot of handguns with problems (ok, two with problems). I wanted a gun that was so good that it would never be the weakest link. I wanted a gun that would be unique and I would not see everywhere I go (my serial # is in the 400s and I hear the new ones are only in the 600s still).

Some people look at a car - any car as simple transportation and some people look at a gun as simply a weapon. If this is your view, it is perfectly valid and you should seek a weapon that fits your personal idiom.

Yes, we Valtro owners are a crazy lot - we relentlessly evangelize for the gun - mostly because we want Valtro to be around a long time and we want others to know the great value and craftsmanship that is found in this gun.

 

[New_comer]

Get a HK USP STD, Tactical, or Expert 45ACP

It'll solve all your 45ACP problems: 1911-style safety, 45Super compatible, built like a tank, black as can be, reeks of German quality engineering, shoots like a dream, and most of all...

The snobbish appeal as it's expensive as heck, just like a quality 1911 could be...

 

[Nightcrawler]

I almost bought a USP45. What it came down to was the fact that the CZ-97 was prettier and cost less. It, too, has a 1911 style safety. No decocker or anythign. Some CZ-97 owners have had theirs converted to single action.

The appealing thing about the HK would've been all the accessories for it. Finding holsters for the CZ-97 has been tough, but there are a few quality houses (like High Noon Holsters) that make stuff for it.

Make no mistake about it, I still want a 1911. I just don't want a fancy one. I'll have to shoot a full sized one before I can decide once and for all on the fit. That will be the determiner.

 

[cratz2]

One thing on the springfield trigger, I've replaced the ILS mainspring housing on four SA 1911A1s with a non-ILS housing and Wilson 'better than new' internals from Brownells. Cost should be around $15 plus whatever you pay for the MSH itself. Anywhere from a $55 Wilson to a $10 polymer McCormick has worked for me. Just these changes make a dramatic difference. Matter of fact, my primary carry piece has not had a trigger job and it is just as good as any of my 1911s with trigger jobs.

Overall, I can certainly see your point on the 1911 vs everything else. I definately like the 1911, but the CZ platform is excellent as well. The 97 is a bit too big for me, but I love the CZ75 and the EAA Witness. For concealed carry, I guess I don't have a problem with the Glocks or SIGs, but they just seem so blaah... Maybe they seem blaah because they work perfectly out of the box.

Oh well... the quest is fun.