Don't underestimate an air rifle!

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Way to go, Egg! Good shooting, sir. It comes as some surprise, but good to see someone out there knows that animals are to be shot, not coddled or worried about.

Got to love the Crow Magnum. Excellent weapon.

However, my C1 in .177 does most of the work around here. Chipmunks love my flagstone retaining walls. Must have shot 2 dozen of the filthy rats this year alone. :fire:
 
The official read from the BATF is that a silencer is a silencer and it regulated by virtue of it's inherent ability to reduce the report of a firearm--NOT by reason of what it is currently attached to.

SO, the only way to be truly safe is to be 100% sure that the silencer can't be removed from the airgun and adapted to a firearm. Some airgun manufacturers have designed silencers that are completely integral to the airgun in such a way that it would be impossible to remove them without destroying them. That's the safest way to go.

Pure pneumatic airguns, that is, guns that work on gas pressure alone (Pump, precharged, CO2, etc.) are going to be louder FOR A GIVEN POWER LEVEL than a decent quality spring piston or gas piston gun.

I own a .20 caliber R1 and a .20 caliber Sheridan. Although the R1 is about 200fps faster with a given pellet, the Sheridan is louder.

The reason is that the virtually instantaneous compression of the air inside a spring-piston gun drives the temperature up. That, in turn increases the pressure, and you get this nice dual-effect physical phenomenon that puts pressures through the roof. The pressures and temperatures get so high that you can't use petroleum based lubricants in the compression chamber or they will explode (diesel) during the firing cycle.

Anyway, as soon as the pellet starts to move, the pressure starts to fall. That brings the temperature back down, and the dual-effect phenomenon works the opposite way as the pellet goes down the barrel. The result is that the pellet gets a tremendous initial "boot in the butt" but by the time it exits the barrel, there really isn't a lot of pressure behind it. Low pressure at pellet exit means low muzzle blast.

Of course, there is a lot of mechanical noise. Even a nicely tuned springer makes a good bit of noise during the firing cycle. Tuned or not, there's a lot of metal moving around when you pull the trigger. I've heard experienced airgunsmiths estimate that only about a third of the total noise of firing a springer is due to muzzle blast. In a lower powered gun such as the R7, it's probably lower than that.

Airguns are penetrating weapons. They don't have the energy to shock anything but the tiniest targets, they merely poke holes. But, they are good at poking holes. AND, it turns out that if you are a good shot, and you can poke holes exactly where you need to, you can kill surprisingly large animals.

This is part of why I get such a big kick about the caliber arguments. The fact is that it really IS all about shot placement. Even an airgun will do the trick if you make the shot. There's a guy on another forum who will tell you that the only reason he's alive is that he was carrying a 10mm pistol (instead of a 9mm, 40S&W or .45ACP) when he was attacked by a pack of dogs. Too bad he's not going to read this post--I'd like to know what he thinks of an airgun for use against large dogs... :D For the record, even a high-end magnum gas-spring gun like the Crow Magnum (Theoben Eliminator) is a total wimp compared to even a .22LR.
 
If I had the $500+ for one of those air rifles, I would buy another "real" gun! ;) FWIW, both of my pistols were $100-$150 less than $500 :D
 
If I had the $500+ for one of those air rifles, I would buy another "real" gun!
First of all, $500 isn't even halfway to the purchase price of a Crow Magnum/Theoben Eliminator.

Second, as a person who owns both quality firearms and quality airguns, I have to say that for the price, it's hard to beat the high-end airguns for quality. I own 4 nice airguns. They all have triggers better than ANY of the firearms in my safe. The metal finish on all 4 is better than ANY of the firearms I own. The sights that came on the guns were superior to nearly anything that comes on a nice firearm. Accuracy out of the box without bedding, gunsmithing, free-floating, etc. has been far better than I can make use of.

Third, I can shoot in my house or back yard, if I want. Ammo costs are trivial. Unless you're really a dedicated shooter, my guess is that you would get that "real" gun to the range fewer than 10 times a year--maybe less if we're talking a rifle. And everytime you went to the range, it would cost you a decent chunk of change in ammo and range fees. So your $500 dollar gun sits in the safe 355 days a year and when you DO take it out, it costs you money. If you had spent that $500 on an airgun, it could be shot anytime you want--every day, if you feel like it--for practically nothing. That means that yield on investment is TREMENDOUSLY higher from an airgun than from a "real" gun.

Fourth, I have been the top money winner in the company gun club for the last two or three years running. In competitions using "real" guns. You don't suppose all that airgun shooting in the garage made the difference?
 
JohnKSa,

I wasn't trying to flame quality air guns, or people who own them. Also, I said $500+. Meaning, 500 and up. If I shot in competitions that used quality air rifles, I could see spending the money on one of the Magnum Air Rifles. But for just plinking around the yard, I'll use my trusty Crosman 760 pneumatic rifle. I primarily own firearms for SD, and that was the point I was trying to convey about "real" guns. I also go to the range and punch paper to keep sharp, so if heaven forbid, I ever face a LF encounter, I will better be prepared to hit what I am shooting at. Again, no flames intended, JMHO. Thanks. :)
 
Random airgun notes:
--->Shooting a magnum barrel-cocking airgun on full power is good "regular" shooting practice--cocking the gun takes 40-50 lbs of effort, and the gun itself weighs 10+ lbs, and all this strengthens your arms and shoulders. When you first pick up such an airgun and fire 20-30 shots, your arms are trembling from the strain. I shot mine enough to where I could take two or three hundred shots in a session and not notice the strain. People who try it initially do twenty or so shots, and they start to tremble but they can't see it and so they think that the gun isn't accurate--which isn't true. If you shoot one regularly offhand, you do get a lot steadier with all your shooting offhand.
--->$450 was a lot for an airgun but back then I was young, I had a mostly-pre-unspent paycheck and a place that I could shoot an airgun because it was quieter and would go unnoticed, so getting a nice one made sense. It was quite a bit more trouble for me to go somewhere that I could use a firearm. I had planned a $300 regular-spring gun, but went for the gas-ram gun on the advice of online airgunners.
--->Also back then there were only three "kinds" of airguns in the US: the plastic stuff at Wal-Mart, The Benjamin/Sheridan "pump-up" guns (for $120-$150), and the Beeman catalog. Everything in the Beeman catalog was expensive (I think the cheapest rifle was $300!), but it was built way better than the plastic guns, and was way more accurate than the pump-up guns. This was long before the cheap Chinese and Russian stuff you can get now; there was no other alternatives except try to find someone who could order you a Euopean airgun directly--and it wouldn't be much cheaper (if any) than what Beeman was selling comparable guns for.
--->Beeman is not the company it once was--R. Beeman sold it to Marksman in 1992 or 1993 and they got rid of a lot of the higher-end stuff and brought in fewer down-market replacement items. One great thing that got canned was the awesome Beeman/Hakko line of scopes--most notably the lighted reticle scopes, which still hold their values ten years later (the Beeman lighted SS short scope is a particular EBR favorite). Luckily I got just about all the stuff I wanted before that occurred. They still have some of the good guns, but many of their better accessories are no more. Some of those things have turned up from other channels (Beeman bought and rebranded items from many Euro companies), and some just plain disappeared.
~
 
As the proud owner of an RWS/Diana model 48 .22 calibre side-cocker I can also attest to the surprising stopping power and deadly accuracy of good quality air rifles. There are times and places where a rimfire is not appropriate, and as many of us already know an air rifle is a real gun! No, they are not cheap, it's cliche' but you get what you pay for. I got mine out of Cabela's for $350, and I'm so happy that I'm upgrading to a model 52, which is virtually identical to a 48 but is recoiless.
 
My little Beeman P3 pistol (< $130) is more accurate at 10M than I am. And as stated above, comes with a better trigger than a typical 1911. Really good pellets are still dirt cheap (and made little difference in my bench rest tests). The point about shooting it in the back yard is its huge plus for me, living in a highly developed area (LA). My neighbors might still complain about a high speed .177 rifle but they 'almost' can't hear this pistol.
 
Hi Harpethriver,

I have the RWS 52, and although it's a wonderful rifle, I believe it's just a dandified version of the 48, with a fancier stock. If you want the recoiless model, get the 54 (I just didn't want to see you order the wrong one and be royally pi$$ed!). :)

BTW, my kudos also to TheEgg for a great shot!

-- JFrame
 
$47 remington 582+ $4 box of cci .22 cb shorts= less noise than an air gun with the same or more power.

i have a chinese qb88 and its far more noisy than the above.
 
Armegatek,

My reply wasn't intended to be as heated as it must have sounded.

What I'm trying to get across is that I probably shoot a hundred pellets through my airguns for every shot from a firearm. Call me crazy, but to me that says that the money spent on my airguns is a much smarter investment than putting the same amount of money into something that just sits in the safe.

For the record, I have somewhere around 30-40 firearms and only about a tenth that many airguns, so I'm not knocking owning firearms or saying that a person should own lots of airguns. I'm just saying that if you think it's wise to spend money to purchase nice firearms which only rarely get used, then it's even smarter to spend the money to get nice airguns that you can shoot anytime.

kernel_panic,

The primers in those CBs contain lead. That means shooting them inside (regardless of the low noise) is a bad idea. Especially if you have children or plan to have children. The lead particles in the smoke can be inhaled and will settle on any exposed surfaces.
 
They are impressive. I used a Benjamin .22 Model 392 with scope to send many bunnies to that bunny hutch in the sky ... very, very effective. And, with that being a pump gun, nothing to buy but pellets, and pretty quiet. Total cost around $150, including scope.

Until the crown was unfortunately damaged in a fall, it was also incredibly accurate.

Visit a few of the airgun sites ... might have been Beeman's. There is a history page out there, and airguns were even used once by the Austrian army, as I recall.

If someone was armed with an air rifle, I would definitely view that as a lethal weapon.

Regards from TX
 
Hey, if you guys want a quality adult airgun for a decent price, find a BSA Supersport. You can usually find them for $199 or less. There's a company on the Internet that imports them regularly. I can't recall the name, but it's Precision <something>. These are good, british airguns, not chinese crap (scary that the brits can be known for good airguns and not real guns these days).

Chris
 
J-frame-I knew that-but with the king-size headache from too much Christmas chocolate(4 Motrin didn't work)I was temprarily bereft of my senses. The 48/52 is plenty accurate, even with the stock iron sights, however I figure that the recoiless 54 should be more accurate and maybe worthy of scoping. My big decision will be whether to keep the 48 when I receive the 54. Oleg has expressed interest in my 48 so I guess he gets first dibs. Happy Holidays to you and lots of fun shooting times in 04!
 
I SOOO want a Beemans..

What do you guys think on the calibers though? .17,.20,.22?

Logistically, I'd like to get a rifle and pistol of the same caliber..

Are the .20's really that much more "umph" than the .17's??
 
Twoblink ...... over the many years I have enjoyed air weapons .... I have goiven much thought to cal .... I have had and used mainly .22 and .177.

On balance now I favor .177 ...... it is possible to get some slightly heavier good quality pellets and .. bottom line is .... usually the actual energy available is about same. Thus - I prefer the flatter trajectory of the .177 and as long as exploited within its range capabilities .. I think that works better.

With good shot placement on small critters ... then 20 to 25 yards sees potentially excellent results.
 
I believe that the ATF can regulate silencers for airguns because they (incorrectly of course) classify some silencers as "firearms", correct?
 
I think the real principle on regulation is if it works on an airgun, and is "removeable", it could work on a firearm. How well it works doesn't seem to matter to the BATF.
 
Excellent shot! Just reinforces that it's shot placement that carries the day.

I've had to deal with feral and pets-running-wild animals on our small holding as well. It is an unpleasent task, but must be done.
 
Straight Shooters has a very informative site. I bought Beeman R7 because I wanted an accurate gun on the quiet side, more for plinking and target shooting than hunting and pest control. But it's deadly on barn pigeons! I've toyed with the idea of one of the magnum powered guns, but haven't made the commitment yet.
 
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