Double action revolvers and exposed trigger guards.

[mcb]

So I am always surprised by the number of holsters I see for double-action revolvers that leave the trigger guard exposed. Maybe I have shot too much USPSA/IDPA but all my holsters, double-action, single-action, and semi-autos all cover the trigger guard.

I am less worried about something snagging it and firing the revolver (very unlikely with the cylinder restrained by the body of the holster) but more so about snagging something that pulls the revolver out of the holster and/or damaging the lock works when the trigger is pulled but the cylinder can't spin.

Can't imagine it's any faster on the draw and just leaves one more spot to snag the gun on something.

Thoughts?

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, the fears are completely manufactured and 100% unjustified but nonetheless popular.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I like the trigger guard to be covered for the last reason MCB stated above (not sure Craig read the entire post), I don't want it catching on things. I want a holster to protect the weapon as much as is reasonable. I'll carry a flap holster at times for that reason.

 

[.38 Special]

I once spent about six months with a Jordan Trooper holster and a Smith Model 19, practicing drawing and hip shooting with wax bullets. Because of the concern with the exposed trigger guard I also had a nearly identical holster made up, but with a covered guard. I never was quite as fast with that one, and I tended to fumble the gun a bit more as well. Being able to index off of the trigger guard was helpful during the draw, at least for me. From what I understand of Cowboy Fast Draw, the same may be true in that game.

Having said that, I'm not sure that any of those activities have any real place in "serious" gun use these days, and when I write "not quite as fast" I mean one or two tenths of a second - in other words, not something remotely important outside of gaming. So I guess my belief at this point is that exposed trigger guards don't serve any real purpose, but may have some slight additional risk of accidents or damage.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I like to have a double action's trigger covered, but I have never heard of anyone having trouble or accidents with an exposed one.

For me it's sort of a "why not?" moment. Doesn't cost me anything to have it covered and gives me a little piece of mind.

 

[JTQ]

I think choosing such a holster is usually a fashion choice. They look pretty cool and often have fancy tooling or stamping. You usually aren't choosing them as the most secure, or concealable, or practical holster. If that's what the holster you want, I don't think they are unsafe, but they have limitations other holsters may not have.

I look at those holsters with the exposed trigger guards like I look at convertibles. You know, sure that car looks cool, but man, my hair is sure going to get messed up if I drive around with the top down. It's an informed choice. You should know the limitations going in.

 

[CraigC]

The Threepersons design has been popular since the 1920's. It wasn't designed as a fashion statement. It was designed by a gun fighter, for gun fighting. They are faster than a holster with more material to clear before they can be put into action, which should be obvious.

Fact is, a holster that is properly fitted simply will not allow the cylinder to turn. So if the gun is properly seated in the holster, you'd have to work real hard to get it to cock while in the holster.

I really think most of this irrational fear stems from Glocks discharging when inserted into a floppy holster that catches the trigger. Totally different scenario. There are no exposed parts that have to move to fire a Glock, which brings me back to my last point. I would challenge anyone to actually pull the trigger on this revolver.

 

[.38 Special]

That's a good post and I agree with most of it. I can pull the trigger on a revolver in a Jordan Trooper, though, and have come pretty close to shooting myself with a wax bullet. I suspect that drawing with your finger on the trigger is one issue that helped lead to covered trigger guards.

 

[mcb]

Not sure how I see the trigger being covered by the holster making that much difference on speed with a double action. It only covers the trigger for the first ~2 inches of the draw. You still have to clear the remaining frame and the entire barrel out of a traditional holster even if you're hip shooting. That seems like plenty of time to get to the trigger. If you're actually using the sights there is plenty of time to get to the trigger and even start pre-loading the double action trigger before the sights even settle on the target. Never felt the trigger guard covered slowed down my USPSA draw times. I still manage the occasion 1-sec draw to an Alphe with an N-frame.

I guess I like holsters that retain the revolver by the trigger guard. Nearly all my revolver holsters I like use this method. No strap or other retention device, simple friction and even a detent that grabs the trigger guard. I always got good retention with a smooth draw from those type of holsters.

 

[CraigC]

You talking about Kydex?

 

[JTQ]

The Threepersons design has been popular since the 1920's. It wasn't designed as a fashion statement. It was designed by a gun fighter, for gun fighting. They are faster than a holster with more material to clear before they can be put into action, which should be obvious.

Sure in the 1920's they were a performance holster. If you're buying one of those holsters today, it's not for performance reasons. Today, while they certainly may be functional, they are primarily chosen as a fashion piece.

 

[skeeterfogger]

That's why the securing strap should cross over the hammer.

 

[Obturation]

I like my trigger guard covered, even on a single action. Not saying that I'm concerned about a discharge while holstered , it's just my preference .

 

[CraigC]

Sure in the 1920's they were a performance holster. If you're buying one of those holsters today, it's not for performance reasons. Today, while they certainly may be functional, they are primarily chosen as a fashion piece.

Interesting. Not accurate but interesting. It was designed for law enforcement, which means open carry on a heavy gun belt. What features that comprise a "modern" holster are more for concealment than speed. Makes little difference, they are used by a lot of people for a lot of purposes and if they were so inherently dangerous, they wouldn't be on the market.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sure in the 1920's they were a performance holster. If you're buying one of those holsters today, it's not for performance reasons. Today, while they certainly may be functional, they are primarily chosen as a fashion piece.

I gotta disagree.
My threepersons from El Paso Saddlery is anything but a fashion piece. It rides at 3:00 on my right hip anytime I'm in the woods.

I will say though, it looks great with denim and camo both.

 

[JTQ]

Makes little difference, they are used by a lot of people for a lot of purposes and if they were so inherently dangerous, they wouldn't be on the market.

I never said they were dangerous, I said they are not currently primarily chosen as a functional item, but rather as a looks item.

Interesting. Not accurate but interesting. It was designed for law enforcement, which means open carry on a heavy gun belt.

Are many still in use by law enforcement?

What features that comprise a "modern" holster are more for concealment than speed.

I'm not sure why this was asked, but ...

The Nelson #1 Professional added a trailing loop to the basic scabbard that rotated the grip in towards the body increasing concealment.

The Baker pancake used two outboard loops to pull the gun to the body and also increased retention.

 

[WrongHanded]

I have a few holsters that leave the trigger guard exposed, both for a GP100 and Blackhawk. I don't use the strap unless I'm going through rough country, climbing on stuff, pushing through brush, etc. I reattach the snap so the strap sits just below the trigger guard.

These holsters are just faster. Less friction on the gun, nothing to restrict or obstruct the hand cupping the grip on the draw.

Bill Jordan wrote quite a bit about holster design, fast draws, and hip shooting, in No Second Place Winner. I've tried that stuff a little. What he wrote of seems pretty practical from the perspective of revolvers and tactical pistol work. Things have changed a lot since then of course.

 

[mcb]

Does anyone still teach hip shooting? From my Safariland 567 I can manage a 1-second draw to a alpha/down-0 at reasonable distances (7-10 yards). At least with the way I shoot, ie no hip shooting, I can't see how the lack of a trigger cover would speed me up any.

None-the-less it just seems like an unnecessary snag opportunity with no equal benefit to offset that liability. It also looks silly to me, but that is probably from years of carrying a double action revolver in holsters that cover the trigger guard.

My current favorite double action revolver holster for general carry:

 

[CraigC]

Other points, the average DA revolver is going to have a DA trigger pull of at least 10lbs. Revolvers weigh a fraction of that. How is anything going to get into the triggerguard, cock and fire the revolver without first flinging it out of the holster? No mere tension screw is going to prevent that. If there is something there to prevent the revolver from coming out of the holster, like say a retention strap or thong, that typically goes over the hammer and prevents it from being cocked anyway.

I never said they were dangerous, I said they are not currently primarily chosen as a functional item, but rather as a looks item.

That's funny, I buy/make all mine for carrying a handgun. They seem to do that.

Are many still in use by law enforcement?

Don't know or care.

I'm not sure why this was asked, but ...

It wasn't a question but thanks for proving my point.

I can't see how the lack of a trigger cover would speed me up any.

Has more to do with the lower throat, not the triggerguard itself.

None-the-less it just seems like an unnecessary snag opportunity with no equal benefit to offset that liability.

How is it going to snag???

It also looks silly to me, but that is probably from years of carrying a double action revolver in holsters that cover the trigger guard.

Now we go from choosing a Threepersons for looks to choosing one that covers the triggerguard for looks. Interesting.

 

[Sistema1927]

Everyone has an opinion. You choose the holster that makes you comfortable, and I will choose the holster that makes me comfortable.

 

[mcb]

Everyone has an opinion. You choose the holster that makes you comfortable, and I will choose the holster that makes me comfortable.

But of course. I was just surprised by the number I see on this forum. I can't remember the last time I saw one in use though.

 

[Sistema1927]

But of course. I was just surprised by the number I see on this forum. I can't remember the last time I saw one in use though.

I hate to be "Captain Obvious" here, but how many handguns, in any type of holster, do you actually see?

Unless I am in the boonies, my exposed trigger holster is concealed under a cover garment.

 

[mcb]

I hate to be "Captain Obvious" here, but how many handguns, in any type of holster, do you actually see?

Unless I am in the boonies, my exposed trigger holster is concealed under a cover garment.

A fair number at various ranges, training classes, shooting events (sort of obvious with IDPA and USPSA since both require covered trigger guards), and on the neighbors' hip out at the hunting property. Alabama is an open carry state so I have seen a few in public too but that number is far smaller than the other mentioned venues.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My preference is for revolver holsters that fully cover the trigger guard. I actually prefer full flap designs, but these are hard to come by in the current market of everything having a tactical focus.

 

[mcb]

My preference is for revolver holsters that fully cover the trigger guard. I actually prefer full flap designs, but these are hard to come by in the current market of everything having a tactical focus.

I like them too for nostalgic reasons but I agree they are pretty hard to find. This one does not get carried much as you can tell by the condition.

ETA: You don't speed draw from this holster...