old ironside
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- Feb 1, 2005
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which dragoon is best and why? How much powder do they take? How do they compare in size to the walker or 1858 Remington? Are they better than the walker?
dragoon
- Thread starter old ironside
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tinroad37e
Member
I have the Whitneyville and 3rd model Dragoons. The Whitneyville is the model created after the Walker and before the 1st model Dragoon. Also, the Whitneyville Dragoon has the Walker frame, but has the shorter barrel and cylinder, like that found on the 1st through 3rd model Dragoons.
I like shooting the Dragoons more than my Walker, 1858s, and 1860s. The 1858s and 1860s feel like a bb gun to me compared to the Dragoon. It's up to you what model you want. I shoot 40-45 grains out of my Dragoons. That's all I shoot in my Walker too. That's alot compared to the 25 grains in a 1858 or 1860. I have so many ball and cap revolvers. I am selling my new unfired Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon and Cimarron 1st model Dragoon on Gunbroker. Anyone interested?
I like shooting the Dragoons more than my Walker, 1858s, and 1860s. The 1858s and 1860s feel like a bb gun to me compared to the Dragoon. It's up to you what model you want. I shoot 40-45 grains out of my Dragoons. That's all I shoot in my Walker too. That's alot compared to the 25 grains in a 1858 or 1860. I have so many ball and cap revolvers. I am selling my new unfired Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon and Cimarron 1st model Dragoon on Gunbroker. Anyone interested?
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dwave
Member
25 grs. in a 1858? I load mine with 40, (.44 caliber) and 20 in my .36 navy, but that is besides the point! 
I was eying a 2nd model for myself for awhile, but I ended up getting a new rifle.
I was eying a 2nd model for myself for awhile, but I ended up getting a new rifle.tinroad37e
Member
1858 Load
It's been a year since I have loaded my 1858 with powder. I bought an R&D conversion cylinder for both my 1858s and have fired cowboy loads through them ever since.
It's been a year since I have loaded my 1858 with powder. I bought an R&D conversion cylinder for both my 1858s and have fired cowboy loads through them ever since.
oneshooter
Member
The Dragoons can be very accurate. 2nd Model Dragoon, made by Uberti. The load was 40gr Goex 3FG, lubed wad, 457 rb. Distence was 25yds. Shot standing offhand, two hand hold. The other pistols are to show the size difference.
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
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Dragoon conversions
I was glad to see this post. I thought that I was the only one that has a "thing" for Colt Dragoons. I am in the process of converting two 3rd models to .45 Long Colt. I have got the mainsprings lightened up so they have a great hammer pull and have got the cylinders machined. The .45 cartridge looks like a BB in a boxcar in those huge cylinders. Need to machine the conversions rings yet and get the ejectors done. I hope they shoot as well as the one that is shown with the targets. Love these big pistols.
I was glad to see this post. I thought that I was the only one that has a "thing" for Colt Dragoons. I am in the process of converting two 3rd models to .45 Long Colt. I have got the mainsprings lightened up so they have a great hammer pull and have got the cylinders machined. The .45 cartridge looks like a BB in a boxcar in those huge cylinders. Need to machine the conversions rings yet and get the ejectors done. I hope they shoot as well as the one that is shown with the targets. Love these big pistols.
dwave
Member
I need to go shooting with you sometime Mec, you have all the cool guns!
Yankee John
Member
My local gunshop has a nice used Whitneyville Dragoon for sale- I think that I'm going to take a closer look at it.
Can a Whitneyville Dragoon be loaded with 60 gr. like a Walker?
Can a Whitneyville Dragoon be loaded with 60 gr. like a Walker?
mike101
Member
The Whitneyville has a slightly shorter cylinder. It should take 50 grains, like the other Dragoons.
tinroad37e
Member
No Expert
I'm by no means an expert, but I know the Whitneyville has the Walker frame with blued backstrap. The 1st model will have a brass back strap.
I'm by no means an expert, but I know the Whitneyville has the Walker frame with blued backstrap. The 1st model will have a brass back strap.
J.T. Gerrity
Member
Main differences are that the Whitneyville has the barrel, shortened cylinder and loading lever of a 1st model, as well as oval bolt stops, but the frame and grip are the same as the Walker. Made up for Colt by Eli Whitney Jr. in small quantities as an interim improvement on the Walker, and originals are very scarce. See below for a comparison between a Walker and 3rd Model Dragoon.
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J.T. Gerrity
Member
Colt thought there was enough of a problem with the oval stops that he redesigned them; all Pattersons, Walkers and Whitneyvilles have them. Personally, I've put hundreds of rounds thru' my Walker and have never had a problem with cylinder indexing, but I do prefer the rectangular stops with the lead-in groove just for GPs. I like my third model Dragoon quite a bit. It's still a large horse pistol, but has all of the refinements of the later model Colts, such as rectangular bolt stops, rounded triggerguard, better loading lever, etc.
sjohns
Member
Colt vs. Uberti, is the price difference justified?
opinions differ, but mine is... absolutely not
opinions differ, but mine is... absolutely not
J.T. Gerrity
Member
My Colt BP pistols are some of the finest guns I have ever handled. Fit and Finish is excellent; the bone-case hardening on the frames is beautifully done, and the high-polish blue is just gorgeous and long-lasting. Actions are crisp and accurate. All markings on the guns are painfully correct, from the "COLT'S PATENT" on the frame to variations of "ADDRESS COL SAML COLT NEW YORK US AMERICA" on the tops of the barrels. All major parts are stamped with a matching serial number, as were the originals. In fact, they are as exactly like the originals as is possible, with just a few minor differences so that they cannot be passed as an original gun. Colt considers them to be an extension of the original production, and has serialized them as such. Altogether superb weapons.
However;
They are made up of parts manufactured by Uberti and finished either by Colt (so-called "Second Generation") or by a Colt licensed representative ("Signature Series"). Most of the Ubertis I've handled are fine guns. True, they don't quite stack up to the quality of the "Colts", but they're close enough to be excellent guns in themselves (compare the photo I posted of my Signature Series guns above with the photo posted by Mec. I'm assuming these are Ubertis).
Bottom line is that the "Colts" are very fine if you want one of the best BP guns available; especially if authenticity is a factor. If all you want is a reliable pistol that will give you many years of shooting fun, then I'd say get the Uberti.
BTW- as a personal aside - I would stay from the Piettas just because they mark the damn things up too much. Not to say they're not good guns... It's just that every time I see that "made in Italy" stamp on the side of the barrel it makes me shudder... Just my personal opinion, you understand...
However;
They are made up of parts manufactured by Uberti and finished either by Colt (so-called "Second Generation") or by a Colt licensed representative ("Signature Series"). Most of the Ubertis I've handled are fine guns. True, they don't quite stack up to the quality of the "Colts", but they're close enough to be excellent guns in themselves (compare the photo I posted of my Signature Series guns above with the photo posted by Mec. I'm assuming these are Ubertis).
Bottom line is that the "Colts" are very fine if you want one of the best BP guns available; especially if authenticity is a factor. If all you want is a reliable pistol that will give you many years of shooting fun, then I'd say get the Uberti.
BTW- as a personal aside - I would stay from the Piettas just because they mark the damn things up too much. Not to say they're not good guns... It's just that every time I see that "made in Italy" stamp on the side of the barrel it makes me shudder... Just my personal opinion, you understand...
sjohns
Member
Gerrity
I sort of feel that way too, about the italian stamps. I can understand also people wanting Colt repros. I have one myself. My only bicker, if it is a real bicker at all, is the price differentiation. I think that everyone mostly understands that they are Hi Grade Ubertis with Colt markings.
I'm just sort of the kind of person that thinks that if Chevy puts its emblem on a Saturn, (both GM) but with a better fuel injector... it is still a Saturn. Others will call it a Chevy and even spit and fume about it. (We could compromise and call it Chevy's version)
But if the fuel injector is a 25.00 part, marked up by Chevy 5,000.00, the price isn't what makes it a chevy. And one has to be careful if one wants to say the emblems and decals make it a chevy. Cuz then, we can put chevy emblems on Fords and call them Chevys.
Whatever it is that makes a Chevy a Chevy, is the same thing that makes a Colt a Colt.
hehehe... this is always an interesting discussion.
But I give up. I don't want any hostility being started on my account.
I sort of feel that way too, about the italian stamps. I can understand also people wanting Colt repros. I have one myself. My only bicker, if it is a real bicker at all, is the price differentiation. I think that everyone mostly understands that they are Hi Grade Ubertis with Colt markings.
I'm just sort of the kind of person that thinks that if Chevy puts its emblem on a Saturn, (both GM) but with a better fuel injector... it is still a Saturn. Others will call it a Chevy and even spit and fume about it. (We could compromise and call it Chevy's version)
But if the fuel injector is a 25.00 part, marked up by Chevy 5,000.00, the price isn't what makes it a chevy. And one has to be careful if one wants to say the emblems and decals make it a chevy. Cuz then, we can put chevy emblems on Fords and call them Chevys.
Whatever it is that makes a Chevy a Chevy, is the same thing that makes a Colt a Colt.
hehehe... this is always an interesting discussion.
But I give up. I don't want any hostility being started on my account.
sjohns
Member
I have 3 3rd Model Dragoons. Two are ASM and one is an Uberti. I prefer the Uberti as it looks nicer and seems smoother with its action, but I have to admit that the old ASM's are pretty good guns too.
I would think that modernly, an Uberti or Cimarron, would be the best bet. I am not even sure if Pietta is currently making any of those models.
I use 45 grains when I am at the range with them. All of mine shoot a little high at 25 yards. No... actually MORE than a little high. I have yet to go out and see if 30 grains will bring the strike down into a normal range.
I would think that modernly, an Uberti or Cimarron, would be the best bet. I am not even sure if Pietta is currently making any of those models.
I use 45 grains when I am at the range with them. All of mine shoot a little high at 25 yards. No... actually MORE than a little high. I have yet to go out and see if 30 grains will bring the strike down into a normal range.
J.T. Gerrity
Member
If it quacks like a duck...
Another way of looking at it is this:
If it looks like a Chevy, is marked as a Chevy, and Chevy calls it a Chevy, then it's a Chevy, even though most of the parts are made in Japan.
If it looks like a Toyota, is marked as a Toyota, and Toyota calls it a Toyota, then it's a Toyota, even though most of the parts are made in West Virginia.
If it looks like a Colt, is marked as a Colt, and Colt calls it a Colt, then it's a Colt, even though most of the parts are made in Italy.
Comparing a Uberti to a Colt is like comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac or a Toyota to a Lexus; all start from the same source, but that's where the similarity ends!
That doesn't mean I agree with the prices being asked for the "Colts" these days, but I guess that you do have to pay for quality. Have you priced a Caddy or a Lexus lately?
That's why I drive a Plymouth (made in Japan).
Another way of looking at it is this:
If it looks like a Chevy, is marked as a Chevy, and Chevy calls it a Chevy, then it's a Chevy, even though most of the parts are made in Japan.
If it looks like a Toyota, is marked as a Toyota, and Toyota calls it a Toyota, then it's a Toyota, even though most of the parts are made in West Virginia.
If it looks like a Colt, is marked as a Colt, and Colt calls it a Colt, then it's a Colt, even though most of the parts are made in Italy.
Comparing a Uberti to a Colt is like comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac or a Toyota to a Lexus; all start from the same source, but that's where the similarity ends!
That doesn't mean I agree with the prices being asked for the "Colts" these days, but I guess that you do have to pay for quality. Have you priced a Caddy or a Lexus lately?
That's why I drive a Plymouth (made in Japan).
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mike101
Member
A few points
Colt 1st Dragoons have oval cylinder notches too.
Second generation Colts use a cylinder, barrel, and backstrap sourced from Uberti. Other parts were made by Colt. The "C" series, 2nd Gen. guns were made in Hartford, at the Colt factory.
"F" series 2nd Gen. Colts were made from the same parts, but production was moved to the old Iver Johnson factory in NJ. The guns were then sent to Colt for final inspection, and marketing.
The Third Gen., or "Signature Series" guns, were made at the Iver Johnson factory, entirely of Uberti parts, under license from Colt. The manufacturer was Colt Blackpowder Arms Co., which was not owned by Colt. It was owned by Lou Imperatto, who was Colt's largest distributor in the US. (all info from an article in Guns and Ammo)
IMO, the Colts are worth the price difference, depending on the model. You can usually get a 2nd or 3rd Gen. Colt for $500 or so. Many of the Italian guns are well over $300 these days. The Colt Walkers (2nd or 3rd Gen.) tend to go for $800 or more, which is a little steep, but they (Colts) are much better made, and they use much better steel for lock parts than the Italian guns. They don't break like the parts in the Italian guns, either.
Just ask Pohill.
Colt 1st Dragoons have oval cylinder notches too.
Second generation Colts use a cylinder, barrel, and backstrap sourced from Uberti. Other parts were made by Colt. The "C" series, 2nd Gen. guns were made in Hartford, at the Colt factory.
"F" series 2nd Gen. Colts were made from the same parts, but production was moved to the old Iver Johnson factory in NJ. The guns were then sent to Colt for final inspection, and marketing.
The Third Gen., or "Signature Series" guns, were made at the Iver Johnson factory, entirely of Uberti parts, under license from Colt. The manufacturer was Colt Blackpowder Arms Co., which was not owned by Colt. It was owned by Lou Imperatto, who was Colt's largest distributor in the US. (all info from an article in Guns and Ammo)
IMO, the Colts are worth the price difference, depending on the model. You can usually get a 2nd or 3rd Gen. Colt for $500 or so. Many of the Italian guns are well over $300 these days. The Colt Walkers (2nd or 3rd Gen.) tend to go for $800 or more, which is a little steep, but they (Colts) are much better made, and they use much better steel for lock parts than the Italian guns. They don't break like the parts in the Italian guns, either.
Just ask Pohill.
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Just ask Pohill.
Something tells me, Mr Burk, that you're a' funnin' with me - no one seriously asks my opinion of anything, and you did zoom that Spiro Agnew quote right over my head...(by the way, those "nabobs of negativism" that Agnew spoke of were right...right?)
But...I do think that the Colts are better made. And, you can get a deal if you look around.
Something tells me, Mr Burk, that you're a' funnin' with me - no one seriously asks my opinion of anything, and you did zoom that Spiro Agnew quote right over my head...(by the way, those "nabobs of negativism" that Agnew spoke of were right...right?)
But...I do think that the Colts are better made. And, you can get a deal if you look around.
mike101
Member
Hi Pohill & Sjohns
The Nabobs were right. I never did know what the hell a Nabob was, exactly. Spiro was a colorful speaker.
No, I wasn't funnin' with you this time. I remember your commenting, recently, that your Signature Series Colt was "trouble free".
SJohns, I wish someone would make a six shot .45 cylinder, especially a gated one, for these also. I used to think that the rear of the cylinder was too narrow. But I'm pretty sure these Cimarron conversions are all six shot, so I guess I was wrong. It would be great if Uberti & Pietta would make conversion cylinders. It would make life easier.
The Nabobs were right. I never did know what the hell a Nabob was, exactly. Spiro was a colorful speaker.
No, I wasn't funnin' with you this time. I remember your commenting, recently, that your Signature Series Colt was "trouble free".
SJohns, I wish someone would make a six shot .45 cylinder, especially a gated one, for these also. I used to think that the rear of the cylinder was too narrow. But I'm pretty sure these Cimarron conversions are all six shot, so I guess I was wrong. It would be great if Uberti & Pietta would make conversion cylinders. It would make life easier.
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