Dream 1911... looking for suggestions.

[Don Galt]

After shooting a friends Colts years ago, I've wanted to get one, but haven't yet. It seems that anything in the 1911 range that I get interested in, and go research, I find a lot of people talking about having to send theirs in to get fixed, or them requiring upgrades to be accurate, etc. Generally it was really expensive to begin with, or it is expensive before its all said and done.

So, I thought I'd throw out some criteria and ask if anyone knows of a gun that fits my desired criteria... possibly the criteria are unrealistic, but hopefully not.

Ok, I'm willing to buy a used, not too fancy, not great looking gun. Something from the 1940s is fine by me. Unfortunately, these things get more valuable as they get older. So, a knock-off works for me as well... though I guess I'd prefer a copy rather than someones improved design (but not excluding things like para-ordinance. But if Zimbabwe made a 1911 copy at some point that seems good, I'd be interested in hearing about it...)

So, without further ado, my dream 1911 criteria:
1) Prefer $300 or less, but willing to go up to $600. Price is an issue.
2) Able to shoot four inch groups at, say, 50 yards. (Not saying *I* can do that)... just want decent accuracy without having to send it off to a gunsmith. Prefer decent accuracy in it by design / construction quality.
3) Prefer smaller than full sized, but not a requirement.
4) Would like to have a choice of calibers-- prefer something mainstream, so that by buying magazines and barrels I can switch calibers. Maybe 1911 standard is a requirement to allow this.
5) Don't mind if its DAO, LDA, or SA.
6) Prefer that 10 round mags be out there.

Hmmm... maybe those are loose restrictions! I guess I'm really asking if anyone knows of a smaller than full sized, $300, 1911 copy that take standard parts?

I suspect the price is the hard criteria to hit. IF you think this is unrealistic, but have an alternative to suggest, let me know. At this point, given what I know now, if I had to buy soon, I'd buy a Makarov, Tokarev or CZ52. I'm not opposed to 9mm, prefer .45 or 9mm, or 45/9mm/22lr.

Thanks--

Don

PS-- Forgot to mention uses: Target shooting, learning to shoot a real caliber handgun accurately, potential future cary, though I'm a bit of a recoil wuss and would prefer less recoil and more weight to ultimatre concealability at this point. Don't even plan to get a concealed permit anytime soon.

 

[Mil Novecientos Once]

GI .45 MIL-SPEC Service Model 5" Parkerized PW9108L. You can buy one of these for less than $400 if you look around.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-ms.shtml

 

[Tamara]

To be blunt, any 1911 for much less than nine or ten bills in today's market has some manufacturing shortcuts taken to keep the price down. The gun was designed in an era when steel barstock and guys with files were cheap, and the machinery to do intricate stampings or castings was expensive.

The Springfield Milspec was a good suggestion; it's about the cheapest off the shelf 1911 that I'd buy, maybe have to give the extractor a tweak, load with ball, and be happy.

 

[Preacherman]

I'd strongly recommend the Griffon, currently available through CDNN for about $350. It's made in South Africa, from forged steel, and comes with night sights as standard equipment. It's Commander-size, so it fits your "smaller than full size" wish. I've never had or heard of a problem with these guns: for the money, they're outstanding value.

 

[Mute]

The SA Milspec or Colt 1991 are great deals. But a sub $600 1911 that will do 4" at 50 yards? Let's try to be realistic. You'll probably get that at 25 yards for an out of the box 1911 at the stated price range. At 50 yards, only with blind stinking luck.

And the two choices above might be able to feed HP's reliably even without a gunsmith tune up. You'll just have to try it and see.

 

[Sean Smith]

The best bet for meeting all of your criteria is a new Colt 04691 (blue steel Commander model). It would just slide under your maximum of $600, they have few material short cuts, are reliable and accurate. Gunsmith Ted Yost test-fired several of the new 01991 models and got ~1.5" @ 25 yard groups out of them, which is quite exceptional for a sub-$600 gun, so your accuracy target is probably do-able with a new Colt. The one I owned was capable of similar results, by the way.

Bear in mind, though, that 4" at 50 yards is a pretty stringent accuracy requirement for a sub-$1,000 off-the-shelf gun, where 3" at 25 yards is considered pretty good. $1,000 or even $1,500 guns typically guarantee no better than 1.5" at 25 (or 3" at 50).

A decent 1911 at the $300 price point just ain't going to happen, and would probably deliver about 1/2 the accuracy you are looking for (4"+ at 25, not 50 yards). $450 for a SA Milspec is probalby as low as anyone looking for actual quality should go. They are good guns but aren't famously accurate out of the box.

 

[10-Ring]

My dream 1911 is definitely diff't than yours. I might like stainless, adjustable sights, a ramped barrel, 3# trigger yadda yadda & you may not. I think that is part of the mystique...that you can build exactly what YOU want

 

[George Hill]

Springfield gets another nod. Solid gun. Good gun.

 

[Sean Smith]

Oh yeah, forgot to add some other points:

- Caliber conversions with 1911s tend to be limited to calibers with the same breechface dimensions. A .45 ACP 1911 isn't really caliber-swap friendly. But you do get a FEW choices to play with:

Just a heavier recoil spring lets you shoot .45 Super or .450 SMC, though you might want the gun modified if you plan on shooting LOTS of supers out of it.

A barrel swap lets you shoot .400 Cor-Bon, .40 Super or .460 Rowland. The latter two are heavy hitters that probably require more than just a heavier recoil spring to get decent longevity out of your gun, however.

A .40 S&W 1911 could be converted to 10mm Auto, .357 Sig, 9x25 Dillon, and maybe a couple other wildcats.

A 9x19 1911 could be converted to .38 Super or 9x23 Winchester.

- There are lots of 10 round .45 ACP magazines, and Tripp Research and (soon) Metalform have 10 round 10mm/.40 magazines. 10 round .38 Super (also good for 9x23) magazines are available. Oddly enough, there aren't any 10 round 9x19 magazines that I know of.

 

[Don Galt]

Thanks for the springfield and colt suggestions. I set the $600 price point because I've seen Para-ordinance LDAs for just under that at local gun shops. I figured that would give enough room, as I didn't think Para Ordinance was cheap.

I'll go do some research on the Griffon. Colt's website is either really stupidly made, or makes silly assumptions about what browsers are going to hit it, so I haven't seen any info on their current production guns. But I'll look into that model.

I certainly didn't know Springfield made a mil spec for less than $800, so I'll see if I can find one of those locally for about $400.

Didn't realize my accuracy requirements were out of line. Maybe I should revise that to 4 inches at 25 yards.

And maybe what I want really isn't a 1911. I like 1911 because it has good aftermarket parts support. I like shooting glocks, but I don't like glock the company. I mentioned I was looking at the commie pistols.

I think what I was trying to say, is I'm not looking for a platform to deck out, but for a gun that meets my basic needs off the shelf so I can learn with it.

Thanks...

 

[Don Galt]

The colt website links to this url for commercial (I've added spaces to break it up)

http :// www.colt.com /CMCI\home.asp

Notice the backslash where a forward slash should be? Its been like this for MONTHS.

I change it to a forward slash, and get an empty page. Played around and cannot find their commerical page...

If their website works for your browser, could someone give me the linke directly to the model Sean is talking about?

Don

 

[Sean Smith]

I think what I was trying to say, is I'm not looking for a platform to deck out, but for a gun that meets my basic needs off the shelf so I can learn with it.

Actually, the Colt meets that description very well. At least the 01991 I owned did. The only difference between it and the 04691 I suggested is that it is slightly smaller (4.25" instead of 5" barrel), and has a different hammer/grip safety setup that doesn't cause hammer bite. Otherwise price and features are the same either way.

And the Colt site worked fine for me this morning, but doesn't work now. I'd guess it is just a transient bug or something.

 

[Don Galt]

Thanks Sean. Seen a picture now, will try and rent one, or something in the 1991 series.

 

[go8dalejr]

I love my colt gold cup ser80 national match a factory match grade gun.
I have seen some used blued ones for around 600 target sights,adj
trigger standard. The are made in 45 38super 9mm and i think 10mm.