Dress Clothes
- Thread starter Lordy123
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Nom de Forum
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Sam1911 how's your draw speed with that set-up compared to pulling a 9mm out of your right pants pocket? I suspect it has to be slower. Of course a full size pistol draw from under the shirt would be more desirable in a lengthy or distant encounter. I do think your concealment technique is excellent.
If you are wearing a sport coat or suit coat you can just about conceal any pistol effectively. Anyone remember seeing photos of John Bianchi before and after removing his coat?
If you are wearing a sport coat or suit coat you can just about conceal any pistol effectively. Anyone remember seeing photos of John Bianchi before and after removing his coat?
Nom de Forum
Member
Don't even see the Glock, do ya?
...
(Was trying to cheer myself up after a friend's funeral...)
Trent,
I remember when you first posted these photos. My continued condolences. That being said the finest tailored suit in the world is spoiled by unpolished shoes. Break out the Kiwi!
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Deaf Smith
Member
If I'm formal wearing I wear my same old beltslide for my Glock and a sports coat.
Just that simple.
Deaf
Just that simple.
Deaf
Trent,
I remember when you first posted these photos. My continued condolences. That being said the finest tailored suit in the world is spoiled by unpolished shoes. Break out the Kiwi!
Such is life when you have two high school age boys with your same shoe size. Those shoes went to dances.. and prom, and finally were left out and got eaten by Jami's puppy dog.
I have since bought another set of shoes. Which was eaten two days later, by the same (now larger) husky.
So now, I have no shoes.
The latest casualty to my wife's dog's chewing issue, was my high power shooting glove.
He dug it out of my rifle bag! That dog loves eating leather. Everything that smells like leather he will find... and destroy.
My next step is to buy a new (cheap) pair of shoes and rub some hot peppers on them. That'll be the last time he eats shoes... broke him of chewing on the table legs that way!
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I do Dockers and a button down shirt without a tie with a tuckable AIWB carry holster. A cell phone clipped just behind the belt clip draws an eye right to the hidden gun but the eye tells the brain cell phone and it never even registers even if someone might casually notice the bulge.
Also, for me, age works for me. I'm carrying Appendix and no one, male of female, is gonna consciously look anywhere near Mr. Winky or my beltline/midsection. It's hidden in plain sight...
VooDoo
Nom de Forum
Member
Such is life when you have two high school age boys with your same shoe size. Those shoes went to dances.. and prom, and finally were left out and got eaten by Jami's puppy dog.
I have since bought another set of shoes. Which was eaten two days later, by the same (now larger) husky.
So now, I have no shoes.
The latest casualty to my wife's dog's chewing issue, was my high power shooting glove.
...
He dug it out of my rifle bag! That dog loves eating leather. Everything that smells like leather he will find... and destroy.
My next step is to buy a new (cheap) pair of shoes and rub some hot peppers on them. That'll be the last time he eats shoes... broke him of chewing on the table legs that way!
I can sympathize and empathize with your experiences. One of my Ted Blocker rigs ended up being a chew toy for one of my puppies when I got careless while cleaning a G22. I lost the holster, belt, and two mag pouches. I guess my little buddy decided he wanted a little variety in his meal.
*Kemosabe*
Member
I was going to post a picture of me concealing a pistol while in formal wear, but I didn’t think I could meet Nom’s standard for polished footwear.
I might add that just because my shoes could stand a bit more buffing, it doesn’t mean that I don’t know the difference between sh*% and Shinola!
I might add that just because my shoes could stand a bit more buffing, it doesn’t mean that I don’t know the difference between sh*% and Shinola!
Deaf Smith
Member
Polished footwear?
What's that?
Deaf
What's that?
Deaf
Nom de Forum
Member
*Kemosabe* and Deaf Smith,
This is the Strategies, Tactics, and Training sub-forum so pay attention as I am going to give you some free valuable training to improve your strategies and tactics. It is important to be fully observant of your surroundings so that you notice incongruities. They often are your first indication that some thing is not right, that danger may be present, and you should increase your threat preparedness level. Incongruities can also betray you to your opponents if they are observant. So you must guard against your opponents noticing any incongruities about you by misdirecting their attention. I learned all of this from watching Tim Robbins in the movie The Shawshank Redemption. If the guards had only looked at his shoes he never would have escaped. Gentleman polish your shoes if you are going to wear a suit so you don't look like you just stole it from Mens Wearhouse.
This is the Strategies, Tactics, and Training sub-forum so pay attention as I am going to give you some free valuable training to improve your strategies and tactics. It is important to be fully observant of your surroundings so that you notice incongruities. They often are your first indication that some thing is not right, that danger may be present, and you should increase your threat preparedness level. Incongruities can also betray you to your opponents if they are observant. So you must guard against your opponents noticing any incongruities about you by misdirecting their attention. I learned all of this from watching Tim Robbins in the movie The Shawshank Redemption. If the guards had only looked at his shoes he never would have escaped. Gentleman polish your shoes if you are going to wear a suit so you don't look like you just stole it from Mens Wearhouse.
Gentleman polish your shoes if you are going to wear a suit so you don't look like you just stole it from Mens Wearhouse.
LOL!
My "normal" attire in the summer time. Sometimes, I even wear a shirt and put some sandals on my bare feet.
Given my normal level of dress, I would say I pull off a suit "somewhat decent." But I'll take the point home, about polished shoes, to complete the costume, next time. Being able to blend in is something I pride myself on, and I do take exception to someone noticing an incongruity that "burns" me.
For what it's worth, my "crazy homeless / cabin fever" persona is MUCH more convincing than Trent-in-a-suit.
So is my "natural state"... (if I have one?)
My "I'm a redneck, Yeehaw" get-up is pretty solid. (You'd never know I was the guy on the right, right?)
And, it's a good thing I can't carry a gun when I've been drinking (it's unsafe and illegal), but especially, and most importantly, because I can't match the color of holster properly to the shirt.
(Don't ask...)
Thanks for all the replies and advice. I've never really been a fan of pocket carry as I use all four of my pockets. I can try to re-train myself as that would be a convenient carry spot. I can't carry at work, so the question was asked mainly because when I leave work it could be a few hours before I get home, etc. Also I've had some trouble completely concealing at weddings/formal events, the suit coat helps but eventually comes off for dancing etc.
When I travel for work I carry because I'm out of town and they can't tell me not to. A jacket works great for that but sometimes I'm in warmer climates.
Thanks again for the tips.
When I travel for work I carry because I'm out of town and they can't tell me not to. A jacket works great for that but sometimes I'm in warmer climates.
Thanks again for the tips.
anothernewb
Member
This is great information. I've recently moved into the mindset of deciding that if I'm going to carry, I'm going to make it part of my every day life.
but have had a tough time integrating it into my normal work environment. monday to friday, it's business casual. Some of my co-workers dress down quite a bit, but I've always thought I'm a professional, I should look the part. so while it's not suit and tie, I still am in button up shirts, and dress pants, tucked in and neat. Front pocket carry is an option with a ultra compact, but a large part of the day is computer time. I experimented at home and found myself adjusting and getting uncomfortable after a few hours. So the search has been on for other options.
but have had a tough time integrating it into my normal work environment. monday to friday, it's business casual. Some of my co-workers dress down quite a bit, but I've always thought I'm a professional, I should look the part. so while it's not suit and tie, I still am in button up shirts, and dress pants, tucked in and neat. Front pocket carry is an option with a ultra compact, but a large part of the day is computer time. I experimented at home and found myself adjusting and getting uncomfortable after a few hours. So the search has been on for other options.
Nom de Forum
Member
OMG Trent! My retinas are permanently damaged with image burn from that "(Don't ask...) photo!
Gentleman I really don't think their is much new under the sun for concealing a handgun upon your person, just new variations. John Bianchi as mentioned earlier by me pretty much demonstrated in the 1970's with one photo all the variations. Sure we have some new materials and designs but the human body has not changed much since the advent of firearms so there are only so many places to pack your piece. While concealment under a tucked-in shirt certainly works that has to be one of the slower to draw locations. While we can all talk about maintaining situational awareness to provide adequate time to draw that will not always be possible. I think a pistol, no larger than a J-frame or heavier than 20 ounces loaded, in appropriately sized pants pocket is far better for most civilians wanting maximum concealment and draw speed. When I am out and about I frequently make guys carrying larger pistols conceal under shirts tucked and untucked. What gives them away is movement. What I see is not just unnatural body movement but the way the shirt moves and lies on the torso. Granted I am probably more observant than the average person you encounter but I am not by any means the only person who can do this.
Gentleman I really don't think their is much new under the sun for concealing a handgun upon your person, just new variations. John Bianchi as mentioned earlier by me pretty much demonstrated in the 1970's with one photo all the variations. Sure we have some new materials and designs but the human body has not changed much since the advent of firearms so there are only so many places to pack your piece. While concealment under a tucked-in shirt certainly works that has to be one of the slower to draw locations. While we can all talk about maintaining situational awareness to provide adequate time to draw that will not always be possible. I think a pistol, no larger than a J-frame or heavier than 20 ounces loaded, in appropriately sized pants pocket is far better for most civilians wanting maximum concealment and draw speed. When I am out and about I frequently make guys carrying larger pistols conceal under shirts tucked and untucked. What gives them away is movement. What I see is not just unnatural body movement but the way the shirt moves and lies on the torso. Granted I am probably more observant than the average person you encounter but I am not by any means the only person who can do this.
I aim to please.
I'm *not* a fan of pocket carry in the pants, and I only use three of four pockets to carry items as a rule. Even with a pocket free, there's just no way, I can't do it.
I *WILL* carry a revolver in the inside coat pocket of my jacket in the winter, mainly when I'm hiking or working in the yard. A Ruger SP101 fits nice and tight in there, and doesn't tend to cause my hip to cramp up on longer hikes, like an IWB strong side holster does...
Nom de Forum
Member
I am a fan of pocket carry for two main reasons.
I wear pants and shorts that have loose fitting pant legs and large pocket openings. No tight jeans for me. If I sense danger may be near but it is inappropriate to draw I can put my hand in my pocket around the pistol grip and no one would think anything odd about it.
I do not have to use the weak hand to lift a shirt tail to access my pistol. Assailants love to find victims who have their hands or a hand full with packages, keys, etc. and are distracted. From my pocket I can draw with one hand from many positions that are much more difficult if not impossible if a shirt tail must be moved.
I will IWB/OWB with a shirt providing concealment but only when the shirt is constructed of light no clinging material (no polos or tees), has not tail because it in not intended to be tucked in, and is a loose fit around the waist that permits using a one handed draw technique that employs the thumb to hook and twist the shirt up and away from the pistol.
When I am wearing an unbuttoned/unzipped jacket or coat I often IWB/OWB a full-size pistol. I place a very high priority on preventing detection of my CCW so I always chose my pistol to match my dress and vice versa. In a metropolitan area, even in gun friendly Arizona, discrete carry is wise to avoid unpleasant reactions to detection.
For my lifestyle I expect any attack that requires me to draw a pistol when outside my home will come suddenly or with little warning and be from bad breath smelling range. Being able to draw one handed frees up the non-drawing hand to block and push away an assailant. I would rather be able to fire a fast shot with a .380/9mm pocket pistol than attempt to fire a shot from a larger pistol that may never clear the holster before I am shot/stabbed/battered by an assailant. Even if attacked by the biggest and best MMA fighter in the World it will not take long to gain the advantage if I put a few holes in his heart and lungs before the striking and grappling begin.
I wear pants and shorts that have loose fitting pant legs and large pocket openings. No tight jeans for me. If I sense danger may be near but it is inappropriate to draw I can put my hand in my pocket around the pistol grip and no one would think anything odd about it.
I do not have to use the weak hand to lift a shirt tail to access my pistol. Assailants love to find victims who have their hands or a hand full with packages, keys, etc. and are distracted. From my pocket I can draw with one hand from many positions that are much more difficult if not impossible if a shirt tail must be moved.
I will IWB/OWB with a shirt providing concealment but only when the shirt is constructed of light no clinging material (no polos or tees), has not tail because it in not intended to be tucked in, and is a loose fit around the waist that permits using a one handed draw technique that employs the thumb to hook and twist the shirt up and away from the pistol.
When I am wearing an unbuttoned/unzipped jacket or coat I often IWB/OWB a full-size pistol. I place a very high priority on preventing detection of my CCW so I always chose my pistol to match my dress and vice versa. In a metropolitan area, even in gun friendly Arizona, discrete carry is wise to avoid unpleasant reactions to detection.
For my lifestyle I expect any attack that requires me to draw a pistol when outside my home will come suddenly or with little warning and be from bad breath smelling range. Being able to draw one handed frees up the non-drawing hand to block and push away an assailant. I would rather be able to fire a fast shot with a .380/9mm pocket pistol than attempt to fire a shot from a larger pistol that may never clear the holster before I am shot/stabbed/battered by an assailant. Even if attacked by the biggest and best MMA fighter in the World it will not take long to gain the advantage if I put a few holes in his heart and lungs before the striking and grappling begin.
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*Kemosabe*
Member
Throw This Into The Mix
Crotch Holster - The one in the photo is by Smart Carry. It's a little pricey for what it is. I have one that I got from Cheaper Than Dirt for $19.97 that is fine for a G27 or J-frame. Their product # is TRW-330 and the name was trouser holster (from my invoice), but when I went to their site to get a picture there wasn't any result with that number or name.
It is especially good if you are wearing sweat pants and you only need one hand. Be sure when you snatch it out that you have the right weapon in your hand!
"This is my pistol; this is my gun. One is for shooting and the other is for fun!"
Crotch Holster - The one in the photo is by Smart Carry. It's a little pricey for what it is. I have one that I got from Cheaper Than Dirt for $19.97 that is fine for a G27 or J-frame. Their product # is TRW-330 and the name was trouser holster (from my invoice), but when I went to their site to get a picture there wasn't any result with that number or name.
It is especially good if you are wearing sweat pants and you only need one hand. Be sure when you snatch it out that you have the right weapon in your hand!
"This is my pistol; this is my gun. One is for shooting and the other is for fun!"
Attachments
I remember seeing something like that at the gun show at Knob Creek, Kentucky, back in 2006 or thereabouts. Was being marketed under the name "Thunderwear!"
Personally I'd rather keep the muzzle of my weapon pointed away from my Kojones. But to each their own.
Personally I'd rather keep the muzzle of my weapon pointed away from my Kojones. But to each their own.
Dr.Zubrato
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lol trent got the crazy/homeless look on lock in that picture
lookin good in the suit, bro!
lookin good in the suit, bro!
Willie Sutton
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^^ Trent, we've exchanged ideas on this before. The ability to blend in and be invisible takes more than clothes, it takes a holistic entry into a role. And sometimes the way be unseen is to stick out like a sore thumb so eveyone averts their eyes. Billy-Bob teeth anyone?
http://billybobproducts.com/billy-bob-teeth.html?sl=EN
Add a baseball hat with sewn-in scraggly hair and you can be invisible in 15 seconds...
"What I see is not just unnatural body movement but the way the shirt moves and lies on the torso. "
Dead on. I can pick many CCW carriers out of the lineup at any of the local stores (Wally World is a favorite) by the robot-walk, the knees-bent pickup of the dropped item, and all of the other "tells". Taken as a whole, these tells stand out like a sore thumb.
"Way back when" I worked as a contractor in a hot place outside the USA where CCW`was absolutely illegal and would result in MANY problems if the local policia found a gun, yet, but... well: *people wanted to kill people like me* in a very real way. So: Development of ways to hide a pistol VERY discretely while keeping it accessable one handed both on the street and when in a vehicle was VERY important. Carry of a 1911 (in .38 Super) under a jacket (safari type) with a roll of coins tossed into the lower pocket to weigh the pocket down was the norm. With one hand you could flick the weighted pocket back to clear for the draw. And the weight kept the cloth down over the pistol to keep it hidden. Toss your wallet and knife in the other pocket to drape the jacket over the mag pouch on the other side and go about your business. Keep your windows rolled down in the car (steel shell plus glass plus interior panels make a car door a really effective thing to hide behind....) But I digress.
All the "inside your fly" and "thunderwear" and other "special" places to carry... what a joke. You might as take a North American .22 Derringer, affix a retrieval string to it, grease it, and shove it where Pappillon hid his valuables for all of what those are worth. Your CCW`is only useful if it's less than a second away from your hand. Otherwise just carry a rock.
Pocket carry of a J Frame is darned good in many ways, even when wearing a blazer. Nom is dead on in his assessments, which mirror my own so well that I can't add anything to it. I always have found business wear to be the easiest time to carry a 1911 (which is what I was carrying when I was carrying in business attire). A 30 year old Milt Sparks Summer Special still does it's trick. It's "business casual" where it gets harder. My old Corduroy jacket with the leather elbow patches still has a place over Dockers and a polo, it's thick material drapes well and hides almost anything. Add one to your wardrobe.
Along with the correct shoes... Trent.
Willie
.
http://billybobproducts.com/billy-bob-teeth.html?sl=EN
Add a baseball hat with sewn-in scraggly hair and you can be invisible in 15 seconds...
"What I see is not just unnatural body movement but the way the shirt moves and lies on the torso. "
Dead on. I can pick many CCW carriers out of the lineup at any of the local stores (Wally World is a favorite) by the robot-walk, the knees-bent pickup of the dropped item, and all of the other "tells". Taken as a whole, these tells stand out like a sore thumb.
"Way back when" I worked as a contractor in a hot place outside the USA where CCW`was absolutely illegal and would result in MANY problems if the local policia found a gun, yet, but... well: *people wanted to kill people like me* in a very real way. So: Development of ways to hide a pistol VERY discretely while keeping it accessable one handed both on the street and when in a vehicle was VERY important. Carry of a 1911 (in .38 Super) under a jacket (safari type) with a roll of coins tossed into the lower pocket to weigh the pocket down was the norm. With one hand you could flick the weighted pocket back to clear for the draw. And the weight kept the cloth down over the pistol to keep it hidden. Toss your wallet and knife in the other pocket to drape the jacket over the mag pouch on the other side and go about your business. Keep your windows rolled down in the car (steel shell plus glass plus interior panels make a car door a really effective thing to hide behind....) But I digress.
All the "inside your fly" and "thunderwear" and other "special" places to carry... what a joke. You might as take a North American .22 Derringer, affix a retrieval string to it, grease it, and shove it where Pappillon hid his valuables for all of what those are worth. Your CCW`is only useful if it's less than a second away from your hand. Otherwise just carry a rock.
Pocket carry of a J Frame is darned good in many ways, even when wearing a blazer. Nom is dead on in his assessments, which mirror my own so well that I can't add anything to it. I always have found business wear to be the easiest time to carry a 1911 (which is what I was carrying when I was carrying in business attire). A 30 year old Milt Sparks Summer Special still does it's trick. It's "business casual" where it gets harder. My old Corduroy jacket with the leather elbow patches still has a place over Dockers and a polo, it's thick material drapes well and hides almost anything. Add one to your wardrobe.
Along with the correct shoes... Trent.
Willie
.
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Derry 1946
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Excellent info here. I wear a suit most days, often three-piece. I had my tailor add a pocket in the pants at the waistline that accommodates a J-frame or equivalent in a pocket holster (such as Uncle Mike's). It's sort of like Mexican carry but won't fall out of or down the trouser leg. The vest makes the grip disappear. Cost of the tailoring I think was ten bucks. Vest also provides another 4 pockets for ammo, knife, light, etc.
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