Dropping Slide on Empty Chamber--Bad for Gun

[Hikingman]

Please don't do this...it isn't a good idea.

While it can be done occasionally, doing it on a consistent basis with a 1911 will shorten the life of the extractor...this would be regardless of the quality of the extractor. The 1911 was designed for the round to be controlled from the magazine into the chamber by having the rim feed up under the extractor hook as the round is stripped from the mag.

A former Marine shooting instructor related the story of how they went through a large number of extractors, in CQB training...both issued and aftermarket...during their failure to feed drills. Upon inspection by their team armorer, the cause was traced back to allowing the extractor hook to snap over the rim of a chambered cartridge.

They still practiced their failure drills, but they henceforth changed out their extractors after training and before carrying their pistols into action.

1911?
Some of you say it better than I do, it's not a good idea to let it slam forward, and just because there's no immediate damage- it can cause cumulative damage. That's damage over time! When a door slams, or a slide slams forward, it goes wham.

Technique or method?
With the slide locked in the rearward position on a 1911, hold the grips very firmly with your strong hand, and with your other hand- grip the slide firmly, then depress the slide stop with your thumb as you EASE the slide forward until it stops moving.

A wise man once said, "don't force anything."

 

[aaaaa]

Also I have been cycling the Ed Brown magazine and the spring seems to be easing up some. My searching online says just a loaded magazine will not break in the spring, but cycling the magazine will.

 

[JTQ]

I don't see a 47D. They have a 47C but the only ones with metal followers are the 920 and the 608.
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/7-Round-45-ACP-Magazines/products/370/

The 47D, is an 8 rounder in the same tube as the 7 round 47/47C. The 47C differs from the 47, in that the bumper pad is steel rather than polymer. I have some 47C's. That pad is nice, but the price premium over the standard 47 isn't always something I'm willing to pay. The 47C is on sale now, though.

The 920 and 608 (I don't think the 608's are available anymore) may be fine mags, but are not the mags on which Wilson made their reputation. When somebody sends you to Wilson to buy mags, most are not sending you there to buy 920's, though like I said, they may be fine.

The 608 is a CheckMate product. Top CheckMate retailers are

Top Gun Supply https://www.topgunsupply.com/magazines/1911/check-mate/1911-7rd-full-size.html

and Thunder Mountain Custom https://www.shop.1911parts.com/CheckMate-Industries-Magazines_c101.htm

If you absolutely have to have a CheckMate 8 rounder, make sure you buy an Extended tube version. Their non-extended tube 8 rounders are a very tight squeeze. I like CheckMate mags, and often choose this mag https://www.topgunsupply.com/check-...f-removable-base-full-size-1911-magazine.html , but I won't buy or recommend CheckMate non-extended tube 8 round mags to anybody.

 

[JTQ]

... a loaded magazine will not break in the spring, but cycling the magazine will.

Both will help break-in a mag spring, but cycling rounds in and out will do it faster. Wilson's instructions that come with their mags recommend loading up your mags and let them sit for a few days. This technique works for just about every mag, from Glock, to Beretta, to SIG, to 1911's.

 

[aaaaa]

Tripp Cobra Mags in 7 round https://www.trippresearchinc.com/7r-45-wg/ are probably just as good as their 8 rounder

That 7-rounder looks pretty good. while it has plastic in the follower, there is also a metal part where it sets the slide lock after the last round.

 

[Demi-human]

My searching online says just a loaded magazine will not break in the spring, but cycling the magazine will.

Cycling is what wears a spring, and being kept compressed doesn’t. But, new springs will “take a set” in their infancy, through the first few uses, or being compress fully and allowed to sit. It won’t effect function but is measurable upon disassembly.

There are quite a few stories around of WWII magazines found loaded. The ammunition is good and the magazine works. The springs will last, barring corrosion. They won’t last as long as our awesome alloys will, but the point is the cycling does it.


Ever notice how a 1911 and seven magazines will hold the exact fifty cartridges in a box of ammunition? Coincidence? I think not…

 

[aaaaa]

Ever notice how a 1911 and seven magazines will hold the exact fifty cartridges in a box of ammunition? Coincidence? I think not…

Nice! So at the range I start with one in the chamber and if I count and reload before firing the last round, I can go through a box of ammo and only have to manually rack the first round.

I definitely see the spring softening some with cycling vs just leaving it sit loaded.

 

[aaaaa]

Watched this video and then did it with my Mec-Gar magazine. Reassembly was trickier and at first got something wrong as the follower was binding but by pushing the spring back down I was able to jockey the follower into position, and now it works fine. Not taring the Ed Brown down for now. No need. I do see that these springs coils get shorter near the top and the shorter part is roughly 2/3 the length of the lower coils and is located at the case part of the magazine, leaving the bullet part less supported.

 

[JTQ]

Note the follower in the video is the CheckMate Patented Follower (CMF) which is used in the Ed Brown mag you have, but not in the Mec-Gar mag. Due to the front and back leg of the CMF, it uses a specific spring designed to fit that follower.

Another point. Many followers have a hook on the underside of the follower that is designed to catch the mag spring. That assembly/disassembly method may need to be modified for such mags.

 

[tark]

You might also consider that the 1911 is an antiquated design and there are more reliable pistols for self defense available.

An antiquated design? More reliable pistols available?

Really?

I can think of another "antiquated design " that is still in front line service because nothing better has been found:

It's called " Ma Deuce "

 

[trackskippy]

An antiquated design? More reliable pistols available?

Really?

I can think of another "antiquated design " that is still in front line service because nothing better has been found:

It's called " Ma Deuce "

There are more reliable guns available, and thats right from the box. Not saying a 1911 cant be reliable, but they area lot more fiddly and picky than a lot of the others and some require work just to be reliable, especially with all types of ammo.

I would have no problem taking a Glock, or SIG out of the box, loading the mag, and putting it in a holster, without ever have fired it before. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing that with a 1911, especially a lot of the clones.

Im not saying I would do that with any of them, but in the past, all the Glocks, SIG's, HK's, to name a couple, have worked exactly like that, and a lot of the 1911's Ive had, which was a good bit more than a couple, would not.



I dont know what the M2 has to do with this, but its a whole different critter.

 

[JTQ]

There are more reliable guns available, and thats right from the box. Not saying a 1911 cant be reliable, but they area lot more fiddly and picky than a lot of the others and some require work just to be reliable, especially with all types of ammo.

I would have no problem taking a Glock, or SIG out of the box, loading the mag, and putting it in a holster, without ever have fired it before. I wouldnt feel comfortable doing that with a 1911, especially a lot of the clones.

Im not saying I would do that with any of them, but in the past, all the Glocks, SIG's, HK's, to name a couple, have worked exactly like that, and a lot of the 1911's Ive had, which was a good bit more than a couple, would not.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but...

I ran into it this morning in a 9mm 1911 using a MecGar mag.

do you have any experience shooting 9mm out of a G21, or can you name five companies that make mags for the HK, or how many companies make a SIG P220?

The 1911 may not be the best out there, but folks ask a lot more from a 1911 than they do from just about any other gun. The 1911 is available in a whole bunch of calibers (different length rounds in the same gun), mags for the gun are made by any number of companies, and the "1911" itself, is made by dozen's of companies.

 

[aaaaa]

Note the follower in the video is the CheckMate Patented Follower (CMF) which is used in the Ed Brown mag you have, but not in the Mec-Gar mag. Due to the front and back leg of the CMF, it uses a specific spring designed to fit that follower.

Another point. Many followers have a hook on the underside of the follower that is designed to catch the mag spring. That assembly/disassembly method may need to be modified for such mags.

Right, the Mec-Gar is a different follower, but comes out the same way, at least it did for me. Seems to be a hook under the Ed Brown follower, but not the Mec-Gar.

 

[trackskippy]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but...

do you have any experience shooting 9mm out of a G21, or can you name five companies that make mags for the HK, or how many companies make a SIG P220?

The 1911 may not be the best out there, but folks ask a lot more from a 1911 than they do from just about any other gun. The 1911 is available in a whole bunch of calibers (different length rounds in the same gun), mags for the gun are made by any number of companies, and the "1911" itself, is made by dozen's of companies.

Thats the 1911's main problem and downfall, they are like a bad, 1000 times copied xerox copy.

If you have a good one, youre golden, its the others that tend to be quite aggravating. This new Tisas is just proving that out

My Colts on the other hand....

And the best mags Ive found so far for the 45's, have been a bunch of 7 round USGI surplus mags I bought for $5 a piece back in the 90's. They are the only mags I have, that have worked in every .45 1911 Ive owned. Well, at least the guns that worked.

 

[aaaaa]

FMJ or JHP in a 1911? We all know ball ammo is what the gun was designed around, so should we even consider HP in these guns? The bullet is low velocity so how much expansion is it going to achieve anyway? Seems most 1911 choking is on HPs.

 

[JTQ]

..., so should we even consider HP in these guns?

In the generic, sure, I'd expect most 1911 to work fine with hollow point ammo. Your gun specifically, maybe, maybe not.

 

[trackskippy]

It all depends on the gun and what was done to it. Most of the newer guns have addressed (or at least tried to) the problems with feeding things other than FMJ, but if its a close copy to something like the GI guns, it may not. And even if they did try to deal with it, theres no guarantee what you use will work, until you vet it.

When I was carrying a 1911, I always had what the smith I used called a "reliability package" done to them, and they would feed anything I put in them. Most of my 45acp practice ammo was, and still is, LSWC's, and the guns all fed them fine. If I were to go back to carrying a 1911, and picked up a new gun, I would still likely have that sort of thing done.

I bought a NIB Springfield "Loaded" model when they first came out, and it wouldn't reliably feed FMJ out of the box, and had some other issues as well. You just never know until you shoot them. I bought a Springfield Defender a couple when they came out a couple of years ago, and that guns started out OK, but soon started having feeding issues.

The previous owner of the Colt 9mm I picked up a little while back had done some "improvements" to it, and added a FLGR, a scalloped flat MSH, and what looks to be a Wilson beavertail grip safety to it. The gun ran sporadically until I replaced the FLGR with a proper spring and plug, and once that was done, has been running fine ever since. I also replaced the MSH with one of the arched versions so it points better, and I keep thinking about putting a factory grip safety in it if I come across one at a reasonable price, but this one works OK, and I am liking the added "pad" at the bottom on it, as it does help eliminate the grip safety issues when you try and get a high grip on the gun.

In this respect, the 1911's suffer as much or more as the Glocks when people "try" to improve them. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

 

[aaaaa]

It all depends on the gun and what was done to it. Most of the newer guns have addressed (or at least tried to) the problems with feeding things other than FMJ, but if its a close copy to something like the GI guns, it may not. And even if they did try to deal with it, theres no guarantee what you use will work, until you vet it.

Mine is a 1911A1 series 70, so meant to be like the old style military gun I think. So probably FMJ is better for it, and since it is not a carry piece, no problem, though I have a few boxes of hollow point to use up somehow, so will see if I can get it to feed. I guess breaking in the gun doesn't mater JHP or FMJ so long as if feeds.

 

[aaaaa]

And the best mags Ive found so far for the 45's, have been a bunch of 7 round USGI surplus mags I bought for $5 a piece back in the 90's. They are the only mags I have, that have worked in every .45 1911 Ive owned. Well, at least the guns that worked.

As noted above, mine is a 1911A1 Series 70 so maybe I should get the USGI surplus mags and try them out.

 

[JTQ]

I guess breaking in the gun doesn't mater JHP or FMJ so long as if feeds.

For break-in, if you haven't shot this thing yet, the typical recommendation is to use FMJ since it is the round the gun was designed around.

The goal is to eliminate variables. If your gun chokes while you are using some odd shaped hollow point, you don't know if it was the round, the magazine, the feed ramp, the barrel throat, etc. Eliminate the ammunition variable and start with FMJ. If it feeds with FMJ, then you can probably assume the other things are working right.

 

[aaaaa]

I have shot 110 FMJs and 90 HPs out of it so far. Going back tomorrow. First 50 rounds were FMJ and only had one failure to feed, which I think was because the beaver tail was bruising my hand so I was holding it a little lower on the grip and probably got a limp wrist jam. I just cut the fingers off a leather glove and stuffed part back under where the beaver tail hits for extra cushion, so I should be able to hold it properly now. I think the other thing is to make sure it is well oiled can't hurt.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The thread seems to have drifted a long way away from the question posed in the OP...let's put this one to bed.

If you'd like to discuss other factors that have come up in this thread, please start a thread focused on them