Dropping Slide on Empty Chamber--Bad for Gun

[JTQ]

I woudnt go spending a lot of money on mags. If yours works, youll be fine.

Good advice, and another thing...

I never buy a bunch of any mag unless I've made sure my gun likes them. Buy one, check it out, if it works buy more. It's not a good feeling buying a bunch of some highly recommended mag only to find out they don't work in your gun.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This discussion would appear to be about ALL semi-autos, NOT just 1911's.

I think your interpretation is too broad. A simple "Yes" or "No" to it applying to other semi-autos would have been sufficient. You could have provided more details if they were requested.

The main focus of this thread is the OP learning about the function of their new 1911. Muddying this thread with your experiences with other platforms is beyond useless and may create distractions to the OP's understanding.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If true, then I need a better magazine. I want a flat cap that does not stick out below the grip like the one that came with it.

I've had good service with McCormick PowerMags...they are the original 8-rd mags from Devel...but they don't meet your criteria of having a flush baseplate.

Using your criteria, I can recommend 1911 magazines made by Checkmate. They can be had with a flat or domed follower, depending on your preference.

As already pointed out, don't buy a bunch of any magazines until you know they will work with your particular gun. Also be aware that 1911 magazines should be considered consumable items...like brake pads...and should be replace when they start to malfunction

 

[JTQ]

Using your criteria, I can recommend 1911 magazines made by Checkmate. They can be had with a flat or domed follower, depending on your preference.

CheckMate is a good option, but depending on how you define "domed" I don't think they offer a domed follower.

You can get a GI style follower, or the CheckMate Patented Follower that is similar to the Devel/Shooting Star follower Chip McCormick uses, but it has a front leg, often called bullnose, that keeps the follower in the tube.

 

[aaaaa]

Not sure if this is true of all Charles Daly's but just read this on Guns.com. What it means for function, I don't know, and their test was a different CD model.

The Charles Daly ships with one Mec-Gar 8-round blued steel magazine. As with all Mec-Gar magazines, it reads “Made in Italy” in small letters on the side.

Oh ha, maybe it means I do need a new mag:

It's your mags. CD sells those crap mecgar mags with their 45s and they suck. Bought my dad a cd for Christmas last year. Bought him three Chip McCormick Shooting Stars and one Chip McC Power Mag and the gun shoots as good as any 1911 I have come across.

 

[9mmepiphany]

CheckMate is a good option, but depending on how you define "domed" I don't think they offer a domed follower.

I was thinking of the one in the middle of the picture below


But actually I had a brain fart. I was thinking about the Metalform 1911 magazines...on the far right in the picture below

 

[aaaaa]

I don't know, domed seems weird, but also that stepped one on the right in upper image seems weird also. What is purpose of dome and of step?

 

[trackskippy]

Shoot yours and see how it works. Im betting its fine.

MecGar makes mags for a lot of the big makers and Ive had a bunch of them over the years, and have a bunch now, and really have no complaints.

The only way to really know though, is to shoot your stuff in your guns.

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is purpose of dome and of step?

It raises and reduces contact between the follower and the case

 

[JTQ]

I don't know, domed seems weird, but also that stepped one on the right in upper image seems weird also. What is purpose of dome and of step?

The one with the "step" is the original GI follower as designed by John Browning. The bent leg "step" is what catches the slide stop and locks the slide back.

The round top follower, Wilson also uses it in their 7 round full size 47, is to simulate having another round under the top round keeping the feeding angle at an optimum.

 

[JTQ]

MecGar makes mags for a lot of the big makers and Ive had a bunch of them over the years, and have a bunch now, and really have no complaints.

They do, but almost none of them are 1911's. MecGar makes outstanding mags for SIG, CZ, Beretta, and others.

Shoot yours and see how it works. Im betting its fine.

That's what I would do and I agree, I think they will be fine.

If they work, the "easy button" is to just buy more of what you have.

 

[trackskippy]

I have a bunch of MecGar 9mm 1911 mags. A couple in 45 too. I got the 45's in trades and they work, so I kept them.

I have a 9mm Colt Commander and recently picked up a Tisas GM in 9mm. I use the same mags in both guns. The Colt, for the most part, doesn't have any problem with them. The Tisas on the other hand, doesn't seem to like them as much, and has some trouble with them on loading, especially from the slide stop. They usually work better if you slingshot the slide. Once the gun is loaded and running, they usually work fine.

First instinct is to blame the mags, but I dont think that's the case here. The Colt has a standard 1911 barrel, the Tisas has one of the "ramped barrels, and I think that's where the problem lies.

I watched the rounds go into the chamber on the Colt, and they hit that short ramp and pop right in. They really dont have any choice either.

I watched them on the Tisas, and what happens on occasion is, the nose of the bullet hits the ramp, and then deflects downward, on the ramp, and stops, and ties things up.

With the Colt, there is no "down" for the round to go.

So, I have to figure out whats up with the Tisas, and try and/or find 9mm mags that wont allow them to nose dive into the ramp.

Ahhh, the endless and ongoing joys of fooling with 1911's!

 

[aaaaa]

I am going to make note of all the slide recommendations that have been provided but first try out the OEM slide. The Charles Daly is reputed to be a very good quality 1911 so it would not make sense for them to provide such a crappy magazine as to be causing malfunctions since that would lead many to think the gun is no good and they don't need that kind of publicity. So I would think this magazine is of decent quality and when running real ammo should function well. I saw a recommendation that the magazine should be fully loaded and sit a couple days to help make the spring work a little better, so it is full of snap caps for now.

I also noticed that the reason the top round tips up is it's rim drops into the recess above the rim below it and presumably because these rounds are pretty short, it tips up. If these were as long as .45 Colts they probably would not tip up.

 

[aaaaa]

Maybe my snap caps were the problem. My manual says,

1911 style handguns were designed to function best with bullets with smooth contoured nose, seated to an overall length of at least 1 .260 inches.

I just measured the Pachmayr snap caps and their overall length is 1.2 inches!

Even the HP ammo I got today is longer than these snap caps!

To make matters worse, even with the few times I tried racking them through, they are getting torn up. I guess aluminum snap caps are only good for revolvers. Should have known better. I see on Amazon people saying "won't work in a 1911," "jams," and "rims get torn up." Oh well, live and learn as they say.

 

[Demi-human]

I’ll second Skippy’s conformation of Mec-Gar’s quality. I have some in several platforms and all are well made and functional.

 

[aaaaa]

I’ll second Skippy’s conformation of Mec-Gar’s quality. I have some in several platforms and all are well made and functional.

I stuffed 8 of the HP rounds in the mag and they sit better than the too-short snap caps did. The top round does not angle as high.

Also, picked what looks like one small aluminum shard out of the works in the gun using an oiled q-tip swab. Not that aluminum is very hard but who wants shards of anything in their gun's works. I better field strip it and give it a better inspection. No more aluminum snap caps for semi-autos.

 

[Demi-human]

I don’t feel that capless dry fire is harmful to the 1911. I don’t use them. The firing pin stop, firing pin and hammer are all hardened parts. The firing pin spring may or may not be damaged, depending on the quality and how one feels about springs and compression rates and limits, and cycles. The pistol won’t be harmed by dry fire.

Caveat time.
Never fire the pistol without the slide on. The hammer will be stopped on the frame and, if done enough, peen it to the point the slide won’t go back on or drag and cause malfunction.

 

[trackskippy]

I think most modern guns will handle dry fire without a cap without issue. I use them mainly as an added safety thing, as you cant have a live round in the gun if you have a snap cap in there. And it cant hurt, especially if you heavily dry fire.

I have run into pieces from old and worn out snap caps causing a problem with my one SIG. A small piece of the rim broke off and got in between the slide and the rail, binding things up.

They take a pretty good beating, but they dont last forever and do get beat up, usually at what would be the case mouth, and the rim, so you do need to pay attention to them and replace them as needed.

I dont constantly cycle them through the guns either, and usually, just leave them in the guns I dry fire a lot. I dont use them for malfunction drills either.

 

[aaaaa]

You are right, they even say to dry fire it at least when unloading the gun.

Pull the trigger allowing the hammer to free fall forward on the empty chamber. Do not “ease” the hammer down by holding or blocking it. Doing so can damage the sear tip, which will result in a substandard trigger pull.

However, they also sell snap caps on the Charles Daly web site (and they appear to be aluminum but at least the correct length). I inquired of the company whether to use snap caps for dry fire. Here is what they responded:

We always recommend following the manual; however, dry fire is only as necessary. If you are wanting to practice without live rounds, we suggest utilizing some sort of snap cap system.

I think my best bet is just not dry fire this gun for practice (not a carry gun for me anyway) and only dry fire when unloading. But a different question now comes up. What is this they say about not easing the hammer down by holding or blocking it? So that can damage the gun? I can't imagine but that is what they are saying.

 

[trackskippy]

I dry fire pretty much everything, as it keeps everything fresh in your head, whether you carry it or not. I do it with all sorts of stuff every day, handguns and rifles.

Dry fire will benefit you more than not doing it. Its not going to hurt the gun.

 

[deadeye dick]

Please don't do this...it isn't a good idea.

While it can be done occasionally, doing it on a consistent basis with a 1911 will shorten the life of the extractor...this would be regardless of the quality of the extractor. The 1911 was designed for the round to be controlled from the magazine into the chamber by having the rim feed up under the extractor hook as the round is stripped from the mag.

A former Marine shooting instructor related the story of how they went through a large number of extractors, in CQB training...both issued and aftermarket...during their failure to feed drills. Upon inspection by their team armorer, the cause was traced back to allowing the extractor hook to snap over the rim of a chambered cartridge.

They still practiced their failure drills, but they henceforth changed out their extractors after training and before carrying their pistols into action.

From my experience, on a 1911, the extractor is fixed an cannot snap over a chambered round no matter how hard you try. It must be mag. fed.

 

[aaaaa]

Wikipedia says .45 ACP OAL is 1.275. Anyway, the snap caps are about 1.2" long, even shorter than my .45 ACP HPs, and that ruler laid on the hp seems to be leaning lower on the snap cap side, but still a big difference. Also see the digging on the rim for one snap cap that must have fought with the gun. Maybe 1911s are harder on ammo than other semi-autos.

 

[deadeye dick]

As mentioned before, how can holding the hammer back by hand while pulling the trigger be harmful?

 

[CNobbe]

My only complaint with dropping slides on empty chambers is when gun store clerks do it to a brand new gun.

 

[trackskippy]

Wikipedia says .45 ACP OAL is 1.275. Anyway, the snap caps are about 1.2" long, even shorter than my .45 ACP HPs, and that ruler laid on the hp seems to be leaning lower on the snap cap side, but still a big difference. Also see the digging on the rim for one snap cap that must have fought with the gun. Maybe 1911s are harder on ammo than other semi-autos.
View attachment 1111738

That OAL is the "max" OAL. I just checked a couple of my manuals, and with some bullets, they can be as short as 1.13.

The extractor of all guns tears up the rims, brass, or aluminum. I shoot my reloads to failure, and the rims take a beating from the constant extractions, which can cause all sorts of malfunctions as they get close to the end of their life. Its why I dont use the snap caps for, failure drills. I get them randomly, and unexpectedly as I shoot and its much more realistic as I never know when they will happen.

Ive had A Zoom 45 Colt snap caps in the past that worked fine in my handguns, but wouldnt cycle in my Winchester Trappers. The rims were too thin, and the rifles extractor wouldn't get a good grip on them and usually dropped them in the action as they cleared the chamber.

These are a couple of the 9mm A Zoom snap caps Ive used in the past. The one on the left is basically done and ready to be trashed, the other, still has life in it. You can see the rims are torn up as well as the "case mouths".

As I said, I dont normally constantly cycle these, and if the gun doesn't have a hammer, or DA trigger, like a Glock, I just move the slide enough to reset the trigger. Im not constantly ejecting and rechambering the cap.



Dont get me wrong here about the A Zooms either, I think they are the best snap caps out there compared to what else is available. They hold up well to regular use and you do have to understand they are a disposable item.