Ear damage from shooting indoors.

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Let's say I wake up at 3am and my house alarm is chirping, someone has got in and they're coming up the stairs. We sleep with two dogs in the room, they will be self-mobilised already, possibly vocal. I reach for the pistol and flashlight, tell my wife to contain the dogs as best as she can and issue my warning to the intruder that he needs to back off fast or I will start firing.
I realise I will probably damage my own ears to some degree in this situation, but should my wife use something like a pillow as a temporary cover? Will my dogs suffer hearing loss?
This isn't my primary concern, far from it. But I was laying awake last night considering it when I heard someone elses alarm ringing. It occurred to me that I could end up with two half deaf dogs and a 'selective hearing' wife.
 
Any time you're exposed to a loud enough noise that your ears ring for awhile after, your hearing is permanently damaged. Your ability to hear at the high frequencies is what goes first, so it's usually not noticable for a very long time. A few shots indoors won't be enough to cause severe hearing damage, unless their ears are within a couple feet of the muzzle. But there will be a little.

Some guns are louder than others. Here's some data.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=001141

An AR-15 with a 20" barrel is one of the quietest guns, surprisingly.

But in any case, a little hearing damage and tininitis is better than being dead.
 
Most gun dogs I know of don't suffer with hearing problems even after years of close proximity to gun fire. Youre more likely to make them 'jump' than deaf.

I removed my ear plugs at an indoor range last week just to see what raw exposure was like, .44mag with full house loads, loud, but not worringly so.
 
Most gun dogs I know of don't suffer with hearing problems even after years of close proximity to gun fire.
Click to expand...

Dogs aren't necessarily the best guide. Dogs generally know a few commands, which are typically spoken loudly (usually in a deep voice) and often accompanied by a visual cue.

My hearing is failing, but when my wife looks directly at me and speaks clearly, it's no problem. When I'm trying to pick up on a conversation in a room filled with background noise, it gets pretty tough.

BTW, I took my 10 year old house-pet/hunting-dog out for an afternoon of dove hunting last year. He came back stone-cold deaf... although his hearing gradually returned over a period of several days.

Now, when it comes to self-defense, my opinion is that hearing protection is something that is way down the list in terms of things to be worried about. There may be certain scenarios where it's possible, but for the most part, you take care of the threat, be thankful that you're alive and move on from there.
 
I was at the range a few weeks back and was looking forward to trying out a new gun I had just got. As I pull the trigger for the first time there is a very loud BANG!!! Damn, I forgot to put on my hearing protection. :banghead: We'll my ears range for a bit and yet this was outside so I know it would probably be louding in a house. Then again, I'm thinking at that point your adreniline is pumping and you won't care what happens to your hearing if you have to fire.

I've always wondered how bad soldiers ears must of hurt after a firefight back in WWII. I doubt there was any serious hear protection available short of stuffing cotton balls in their ears back then. It's no wonder all of my old uncles were deaf.
 
I've shot firearms indoors and outdoors without hearing protection. I still pass my FAA hearing tests just fine......
could your dogs and wife suffer hearing damage? Yes. Will they? Probably not. Usually any effects are temporary.
 
As I understand it, short bursts of noise won't do too much damage, but prolonged noise over some time will definately hurt your ears. I would worry about dispatching the intruder long before worrying about ear protection in the scenario you present Real Name.
However, I developed tinnitus from gunfire noise. I shoot cowboy action a few times a month and I also shoot BP. I used fitted ear plugs that I had custom made for my ears. I also RO the other shooters and so if you multiply that by about 250 shots by about 20 shooters each match, then you can see that I exposed myself to a lot of noise over a few hours of time a few times a month. I developed a constant ringing in my ears and went to an audioligist. She tested me with the custom fitted ear plugs and without. I actually have little actual hearing loss, just the tinnitus. Her best estimate was that the plugs I was using dropped the decibel noise about 25db. She tried me out with some cheap foam ear plugs that you roll and insert and found amazingly that they reduced the noise by more than 30db. I use them now and I cut back on RO duties and will help out by timing just a few shooters instaed of the whole bunch.
Of course no two people are alike and so the same can be said for custom ear plugs, but you need to take hearing protection seriously when you are burning up ammo plinking or whatever, but I would think short bursts in a house would not hurt you too much, compared to what could happen if you wern't able to defend your home with some fire power.
 
I was in the military, and although I wasn't in any combat, I did go through combat training at Camp Bullis. During our live fire exercises, with simulated bombs and mortars, when I cut loose with the M-60, my hearing went and didn't come back for almost a day. I've hunted most of my life, and use ear protection only when I'm at the range. What I don't understand is, why when I shoot a deer, my ears don't ring, and I don't feel any recoil. :) Of course now that I'm in my late 40's, I always wonder what this ringing in my ears is. Not to mention that when my wife and I are in a car, if she's looking straight ahead, I can't hear a word she says. But when she turns and speaks to the side of my head, I can hear her. She's jacked around with me several times, by purposely speaking in a low tone, and I hear everything. When she speaks normal, I get about every 3rd word. And she wonders why I don't listen to her. Hell, I don't even know she's talking to me. haha.
 
There seems to be alot of selective deafness when wives are talking????

I thought it was just me:)
 
Grossman has some interesting info in his book "On Combat". He talks extensively about visual exclusion (tunnel vision), and auditory exclusion (blanking noise out even prior to shooting). Apparently for some people having prior knowledge that a loud noise is coming, the body can almost disconnect the auditory nerve, leaving them with intact hearing after the round is fired.

Interesting reading,

-Jenrick
 
Let me get this straight.....

a perp has entered your house and is kicking down the door to get to your wife and kids and you hesitate to shoot because you are afraid of damaging your hearing?.............chris3
 
ball3006, no, you didn't get it right.
My primary concern isn't my hearing, my wife's hearing or any future hearing capability of my dogs. As I said in the last two lines of my original post, which I am sure you did read before making that assumption, 'this isn't my primary concern, far from it'. It is just a matter that I required discourse on and have gained information by opening the matter to discussion. As did others hopefully.
I'm not in the habit of staying awake at night thinking about ridiculous scenarios but I admit I did waste about an hour of my life last night wondering about this matter. That doesn't mean I am going to hesitate to shoot at all. Ever.

BTW, they're dogs not kids, again I am sure you did read my original post but they are slightly different. Dogs cost a lot less money and offer (arguably) more in return (with less attitude).

Carry on.
 
Indoors in your house will be a lot more muffled because of softer surfaces (carpet, drapes, furniture, drywall) than in an indoor range where the sound bounces off concrete. It should not hurt and you won't even hear it as you will so focused on firing you might not even hear it.

I keep a pair of electronic muffs in my GunVault so if I ever have the scenario you mentioned, I am protected hearing-wise and can hear the intruder better.

Not a lot of break-ins around here lately so I rotate these with the ones I take to the range so the batteries do not die on me.

Saul Levy
 
should my wife use something like a pillow as a temporary cover
Click to expand...

I generally warn people to plug their ears with their fingers before firing. It's a simple coutesy that most take advantage of.

I doubt a pillow is going to be very effective. It sure doesn't work against the neighbor's chainsaw when I am trying to sleep during the day working nights.
 
There was a local case a few months ago where a couple of cops had to shoot a guy in an apartment. The bad guy went to the morgue and both cops went to the hospital for injuries to their ears. The newspaper reporter was kind enough to list the caliber for the curious: .40 S&W.
 
Indoors in your house will be a lot more muffled
Click to expand...
Obviously you have never fired a large bore handgun in your house. :what:

Believe me you will think your ears are going to bleed.
 
gezzer, you're right. I never fired a large bore handgun in my house. But I did in the range and I did outdoors (both without protection) for an experiment. The range struck me as amplifying the sound a lot more due to the concrete and empty space and I am guessing a house will be less severe. I guess the room size and fittings would have some effect (the larger the room with more furniture and carpet being easier on the ears than a small, bare room).

BTW, at the range it was painful, but endurable. If I ever did have the need to fire a gun in the house, I would do it without hesitation.

Saul Levy
 
I've wondered about this myself. Will the noise of the first shot be disableing enough to hinder any follow up shots? Should we consider a pair of electronic muffs to add to our HD package? The muffs would have to allow you to hear any low db noises.
 
I can tell you from personal experience that even a single shot from a magnum revolver inside your house can leave you with permanent hearing damage.

My wife was in the next room and fared much better. Her ears rang for a short time and she didn't notice any hearing impairment.

I went instantly deaf at the shot and did not regain my hearing for 20 minutes or so and was badly impaired for the rest of the day. I still have detectable (by me--without any sort of special testing) hearing loss in my left ear.

This was from an unexpected discharge. I don't know if things would have been different had I been expecting it. I have read anecdotal evidence to support the fact that high adrenaline levels combined with the expectation of loud noise offers some level of protection. However, that is not always the case as I am aware of one law enforcement officer who has noticeable hearing loss from a shooting. She was definitely experiencing an adrenaline high and was expecting the shots (3). She noted (again without any sort of special testing) permanent hearing loss as a result of this single incident.

Auditory exclusion is a neural phenomenon that takes place in the brain, it doesn't offer any protection to the structures in the ear that are damaged by loud noises. If being prepared and possibly high on adrenalin offers some protection it is via a different (and, I think, as yet undefined) mechanism.
 
"I went instantly deaf at the shot and did not regain my hearing for 20 minutes or so and was badly impaired for the rest of the day"

I've had that kind of hearing loss as well. Then again, it wasn't from a gun shot. It was from sitting in a section at a concert hall that was right next to the speakers during a WASP / Kiss concert in the early 80s. :p I couldn't hear anything for days. :D Hummmmm, big surprise I have Tenitius now. Then again, working on jets didn't help me either.
 
"I can tell you from personal experience that even a single shot from a magnum revolver inside your house can leave you with permanent hearing damage."

I stand corrected.

Maybe a pair of electronic muffs would be a good addition to a HD package.

Saul Levy
 
I fired a 9mm without hearing protection on at an indoor range.(accidentally) I was right next to a cinder-block wall. It was very loud, not to mention surprising, but my ears only rang for a few minutes.
 
I've fired a number of guns indoors without hearing protection and the loudest and most painful was a .38 snubbie. It's very disorienting. It feels like you've been punched in the head. I could barely hear for days.
Biker
 
Distractions, distractions, distractions......

will get you or your family killed. I doubt very seriously you would ever hear the shot if a perp kicked down your door and attacked you or your family. I have shot many deer and I never heard the shot and it was from a 30 cal rifle. For me, it is not too hard to choose between some possible hearing loss and the lives of me, my wife, or my cats (who are my kids as we don't have any of the real kind)..........If you do not have the mindset to pull the trigger when the time comes, you better just call 911 instead.........chris3
 
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