EDC knife for $200ish

[readyeddy]

The Spyderco Chinook 4 is available on Amazon for $203.97 with Prime shipping right now.

 

[hso]

There are a handful of good forums out there.

Bladeforums is the most informative, but they play rougher than we do.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

1. Don't buy brand-name knives on Amazon. The amount of money you save is usually not very much, if any. Amazon is an authorized dealer for a lot of companies, but they know nothing about knives and their generous return policy is a known insertion point for fraudulent returns that contaminate their stock inventory. Because of their size, they are targets of frequent fraud, where returns of knockoffs and clones are made and the originals are kept. They don't know enough to recognize this scam for what it is, and they're big enough that they can shrug off the shrinkage.

2. The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 is an excellent choice. This model has a slightly larger Spyderhole than some of Spyderco's other models, which makes opening it with gloved hands easier. The handles are G10 with an extremely secure grip. Another thing that's important in the winter is that the compression lock doesn't require a metal frame. A titanium or steel handle is harder to use in the winter because it's temperature-sensitive. Functionally this doesn't matter, but ergonomically an extremely cold metal handle is much less pleasant to use. G10 doesn't have that problem.

The full flat grind is a great slicer and cutter and will do for everything except prying, so it seems to fit your needs well. It's well under your budget even with the adjustment to MSRP that occurred this year. If you end up liking the design, dealer exclusives and sprint runs in high-end steels and unique handle colors are pretty common and pretty collectible.

3. With regard to cutlery steels, 154CM is an older steel that 20 years or so ago would have been the standard for good cutlery. It's an American-made steel that came about because ATS-34, the Japanese equivalent, was hard to come by after its popularity for knives shot through the roof in the 1990s. 154CM is an evolution of 440C, arguably the default quality cutlery stainless steel for nearly 30 years (Japanese equivalent is AUS-10). Other than carbon and chromium, 154CM is mostly a molybdenum alloy (~4%). Benchmade uses 154CM for most of its baseline knives.

S30V was one of the first steels specifically designed by and for cutlery use and is made via powder metallurgy processes, which creates finer and more evenly distributed carbides. Chris Reeve had a great deal of input into Crucible's development of S30V and was an early adopter. S30V started the trend of steels including lots of vanadium, which before the powder metallurgy process could not, if I recall correctly, be alloyed at high percentages in steel. S30V is about 1.45% carbon, 14% chromium, 4% vanadium and 2% molybdenum. For a while, again, roughly 20 years ago, S30V was king of the hill. It's since become a baseline steel for good manufacturers. It takes a toothy edge and has good edge retention, but some complain that it can be chippy and lacks toughness.

The current top-end stainless is Bohler's M390 and its equivalent from other companies, Carpenter's CTS-204P, and Crucible's CPM-20CV. Bohler-Uddeholm's Elmax also has a lot of proponents because it has a reputation for being very tough (for stainless steels, anyway) while having nearly the edge retention of M390 and its analogues. S35VN and CTS-XHP bring up the rear of the current premiums, in my opinion. S35VN is an iterative improvement over S30V that replaces some of the vanadium with niobium. The result is a little better toughness and on the back end, easier machinability than S30V. CTS-XHP is basically a stainless analogue to D2 tool steel.

Bladeforums is the most informative, but they play rougher than we do.

Bladeforums is a great forum by and large.

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks Madcap. It was a good read. How does 12C27 compare?

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Thanks Madcap. It was a good read. How does 12C27 compare?

Sandvik 12C27 is a simple stainless at 0.6% carbon, 13.5% chromium, and 0.4% each of silicon and manganese. It's been around a while. It's pretty similar to 13C26 and AEB-L. They saw a lot of use as razor blade steels. AEB-L in particular is seeing a resurgence in the custom knife market because new heat treat techniques for it allow it to be remarkably tough (again, for a stainless) at much higher hardness (HRC 60-63) than was achievable in the past. That's a lay summary, I'm not an expert as to why this is. These steels make very popular kitchen knives, especially, but they're seeing a resurgence among makers for larger stainless knives in general, since they're sufficiently tough to make large blades but are more corrosion-resistant than any of the carbon steels that are usually used for larger blades.

AEB-L is the base for Nitro-V, a newer steel that's been compared to a stainless 52100 (a non-stainless steel used mostly for bearings but popular for forged fixed blades)- substantial toughness, but stainless as well. It has a lot of trace elements, but noticeably (as per the name), nitrogen and vanadium. The nitrogen adds corrosion resistance, and a smidge of vanadium improves edge holding. There's a fellow making very nice Nitro-V machetes (thus of relatively thin stock) that are pretty darn tough and take a nice edge.

 

[Wisco]

1. Don't buy brand-name knives on Amazon. The amount of money you save is usually not very much, if any. Amazon is an authorized dealer for a lot of companies, but they know nothing about knives and their generous return policy is a known insertion point for fraudulent returns that contaminate their stock inventory. Because of their size, they are targets of frequent fraud, where returns of knockoffs and clones are made and the originals are kept. They don't know enough to recognize this scam for what it is, and they're big enough that they can shrug off the shrinkage.

2. The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 is an excellent choice. This model has a slightly larger Spyderhole than some of Spyderco's other models, which makes opening it with gloved hands easier. The handles are G10 with an extremely secure grip. Another thing that's important in the winter is that the compression lock doesn't require a metal frame. A titanium or steel handle is harder to use in the winter because it's temperature-sensitive. Functionally this doesn't matter, but ergonomically an extremely cold metal handle is much less pleasant to use. G10 doesn't have that problem.

The full flat grind is a great slicer and cutter and will do for everything except prying, so it seems to fit your needs well. It's well under your budget even with the adjustment to MSRP that occurred this year. If you end up liking the design, dealer exclusives and sprint runs in high-end steels and unique handle colors are pretty common and pretty collectible.

3. With regard to cutlery steels, 154CM is an older steel that 20 years or so ago would have been the standard for good cutlery. It's an American-made steel that came about because ATS-34, the Japanese equivalent, was hard to come by after its popularity for knives shot through the roof in the 1990s. 154CM is an evolution of 440C, arguably the default quality cutlery stainless steel for nearly 30 years (Japanese equivalent is AUS-10). Other than carbon and chromium, 154CM is mostly a molybdenum alloy (~4%). Benchmade uses 154CM for most of its baseline knives.

S30V was one of the first steels specifically designed by and for cutlery use and is made via powder metallurgy processes, which creates finer and more evenly distributed carbides. Chris Reeve had a great deal of input into Crucible's development of S30V and was an early adopter. S30V started the trend of steels including lots of vanadium, which before the powder metallurgy process could not, if I recall correctly, be alloyed at high percentages in steel. S30V is about 1.45% carbon, 14% chromium, 4% vanadium and 2% molybdenum. For a while, again, roughly 20 years ago, S30V was king of the hill. It's since become a baseline steel for good manufacturers. It takes a toothy edge and has good edge retention, but some complain that it can be chippy and lacks toughness.

The current top-end stainless is Bohler's M390 and its equivalent from other companies, Carpenter's CTS-204P, and Crucible's CPM-20CV. Bohler-Uddeholm's Elmax also has a lot of proponents because it has a reputation for being very tough (for stainless steels, anyway) while having nearly the edge retention of M390 and its analogues. S35VN and CTS-XHP bring up the rear of the current premiums, in my opinion. S35VN is an iterative improvement over S30V that replaces some of the vanadium with niobium. The result is a little better toughness and on the back end, easier machinability than S30V. CTS-XHP is basically a stainless analogue to D2 tool steel.



Bladeforums is a great forum by and large.

Very informative! Thanks much!

 

[dh1633pm]

Thanks Madcap. I read about it on Google but you answer is better.

 

[dh1633pm]

Wisco, did you find a knife of your liking yet?

 

[Wisco]

Wisco, did you find a knife of your liking yet?

I ordered a Spyderco Paramilitary 2. Should be here by Friday.

I’m looking for a Benchmade Hunter locally to handle before deciding on ordering one.

Still trying to get my hands on some various autos locally that were mentioned here as well to see what I like. I played with a Benchmade CLA - it’s a maybe.

 

[ugaarguy]

Wisco, they haven't been mentioned here yet, but take a look at the Kershaw Launch series of autos if you can get your hands on them. They're quite nice and sell for about 30% less than Benchmade.

The current top-end stainless is Bohler's M390 and its equivalent from other companies, Carpenter's CTS-204P, and Crucible's CPM-20CV.

S90V and S110V are even better, and both are readily available on knives from Benchmade and Spyderco. One can get a plastic handled Spyderco Manix 2 LW or Native 5 LW with S110V blade for right at or a hair under $125. Those are neat options if one wants to explore the top end of the stainless super steels.

 

[Wisco]

Wisco, they haven't been mentioned here yet, but take a look at the Kershaw Launch series of autos if you can get your hands on them. They're quite nice and sell for about 30% less than Benchmade.

The local Scheels has several auto Kershaws. I’ll have to go back and check them out. I wasn’t sure where they were made and was running out of time when I was handling the CLA.

 

[hso]

I wasn’t sure where they were made

Autos can't legally be imported into the US...yet.

 

[CZ9shooter]

The local Scheels has several auto Kershaws. I’ll have to go back and check them out. I wasn’t sure where they were made and was running out of time when I was handling the CLA.

They are all US made. I was eyeballing one or two of them for a little while, but autos arent legal to carry here, just own, so I passed.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Wisco, they haven't been mentioned here yet, but take a look at the Kershaw Launch series of autos if you can get your hands on them. They're quite nice and sell for about 30% less than Benchmade.


S90V and S110V are even better, and both are readily available on knives from Benchmade and Spyderco. One can get a plastic handled Spyderco Manix 2 LW or Native 5 LW with S110V blade for right at or a hair under $125. Those are neat options if one wants to explore the top end of the stainless super steels.

I like S60V and S90V a lot, and for folders I think S110V is great, but I know a lot of people think S110V is a bit imbalanced- extreme edge retention, but difficult to work and lacking in toughness. For folding knives it shouldn't matter though. With Spydercos I love S110V because all of Spyderco's S110V knives have their blurple handles, and saying 'blurple' makes me laugh.

 

[dayhiker]

I ordered a Spyderco Paramilitary 2.

Good choice. The Para 2 has a large fanbase for a reason, great knife. I have a black/satin S30v one.

Haven't carried it in a few years though. Only because I am a member of the Military fanbase.

 

[ugaarguy]

I ordered a Spyderco Paramilitary 2. Should be here by Friday.

Let us know what you think after you get it, and after you've used it for a bit. I've owned a Para 2 and a couple of other G10 handle w/ compression lock Spydercos. They're generally good knives (minus the Para 2 I bought when Spyderco had a rare blip in quality control), and I know the compression lock is at least as strong as a frame lock, if not stronger.

I've also owned a Benchmade Griptilian for over a decade, and had the chance to use some higher end Axis lock Benchmades. I know that the Axis lock is likewise stronger than most frame locks.

But, the knife that finally scratched the itch for me was a Zero Tolerance 0562CF. There's just something about the carbon fiber front scale, beefy titanium frame lock with hardened steel insert, and the 3.5" long slicer grind blade made from CTS 204P (Carpenter's US equivalent of M390) flipping open on caged ball bearings that just does it for me. If you can get to a shop or show that has ZT and other higher frame locks they're worth a look.

Ohh, and just to make your head spin a little more, Kershaw (same parent company as ZT) has announced that they're going to sell the US made Link and Dividend models with M390 blades. Preorder pricing from Knife Center is right at $80 for the Link and just under that for the Dividend. Those are both spring assisted flipper opening liner locks with aluminum handles. Compared to the Spyderco Native 5 LW and Manix LW their liner locks aren't as strong as a lock back or a compression lock, but the aluminum handles will be nicer than the plastic handles on the two mentioned Spydercos. Their M390 blades are just a little behind the competing S110V blades, as Madcap and I discussed above. At a little less than 2/3 the price of the S110V LW Spydies those two Kershaws are going to provide an interesting dilemma for anyone looking for a relatively low cost but high quality entry to the current top end blade steels.

 

[Wisco]

Just came in the mail today. First impression was the size. It’s perfect for what I need. The Benchmade it’s replacing felt a bit small and the Military model would’ve been really too big.
Amazing to me how 1/2” if blade size makes a knife so much bigger overal.

Feels like an awesome knife. The only thing I need to do is reorient the clip to match how I’ve always carried - tip toward the top of the pocket when folded.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

But, the knife that finally scratched the itch for me was a Zero Tolerance 0562CF. There's just something about the carbon fiber front scale, beefy titanium frame lock with hardened steel insert, and the 3.5" long slicer grind blade made from CTS 204P (Carpenter's US equivalent of M390) flipping open on caged ball bearings that just does it for me. If you can get to a shop or show that has ZT and other higher frame locks they're worth a look.

Ohh, and just to make your head spin a little more, Kershaw (same parent company as ZT) has announced that they're going to sell the US made Link and Dividend models with M390 blades. Preorder pricing from Knife Center is right at $80 for the Link and just under that for the Dividend. Those are both spring assisted flipper opening liner locks with aluminum handles. Compared to the Spyderco Native 5 LW and Manix LW their liner locks aren't as strong as a lock back or a compression lock, but the aluminum handles will be nicer than the plastic handles on the two mentioned Spydercos. Their M390 blades are just a little behind the competing S110V blades, as Madcap and I discussed above. At a little less than 2/3 the price of the S110V LW Spydies those two Kershaws are going to provide an interesting dilemma for anyone looking for a relatively low cost but high quality entry to the current top end blade steels.

ZT I think makes the best flippers in the production market now. Personally the tradeoff on the Link and the Dividend will be that the blade steel is the only premium material on the knife, but at that cost, aluminum handles are still a good deal.

 

[ugaarguy]

Personally the tradeoff on the Link and the Dividend will be that the blade steel is the only premium material on the knife, but at that cost, aluminum handles are still a good deal.

I'm going to start a new thread so I don't take Wisco's thread too far off on this tangent.

 

[Bigmike79]

My wife used to find knives all the time in the bar she used to own years ago. It always blew me away how many people would lose a $200 knife and then never come back to claim it. I used to sell them on ebay after a few months.

Anyways, I got to be honest in that I could never really tell the difference between $100 and $200 blade. I'm sure there is a difference, but I couldn't see it or feel it. I've always been a Swiss army knife guy, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

 

[Yo Mama]

Wisco, they haven't been mentioned here yet, but take a look at the Kershaw Launch series of autos if you can get your hands on them. They're quite nice and sell for about 30% less than Benchmade.


S90V and S110V are even better, and both are readily available on knives from Benchmade and Spyderco. One can get a plastic handled Spyderco Manix 2 LW or Native 5 LW with S110V blade for right at or a hair under $125. Those are neat options if one wants to explore the top end of the stainless super steels.

The Launches have a well known issue with the blade bouncing of the stop pin because the springs they use dont have constant pressure. I'd stay away and even go with a Boker Kalashnikov.

 

[Litlman]

Spyderco Para 2.

 

[greyling22]

Yes, avoid the launch knives. I like protech for autos. The tr3 is really quite nice.

The para 2 is a good choice. Very popular, though I've always felt the handle to blade ratio is off. Be soooo careful buying spydercos. They are frequently cloned. You can find a pm2 clone for like $15 that, other than steel quality, will be very difficult to tell from the real thing. I home the op bought from a reputable vendor and not amazon. (Zt, microtech, Hinderer, sebenza and benchmade are also often copied, but only zt and microtech are cloned as much as spyderco.) There is a titanium handled pm2 clone in d2 steel and ceramic bearings for $45 I have had a hard time resisting. The new spyderco shaman is supposedly better than the pm2 or the manix, but I have not handled it.

My top 3 carry knives are (in order of size) the zt0450cf, the benchmade 940, and a shirogorov f95 clone. I have a bunch of other stuff, but I find one of those 3 are in my pocket 80% of the time.

 

[Old Dog]

Nice thread, some good and varied info came out.
I'm a ZT and Spyderco guy myself ...

 

[ugaarguy]

The Launches have a well known issue with the blade bouncing of the stop pin because the springs they use dont have constant pressure. I'd stay away and even go with a Boker Kalashnikov.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure how I'd missed this, but a search shows it's something I should have been aware of.