carebear
Member
And yep, he's a convicted felon in possession of what sounds like a .22 rifle.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/04/ctv.ware/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/04/ctv.ware/index.html
"Egg Throwing Incident" shooter charged
- Thread starter carebear
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Sindawe
Member
Applies to both sides in this sad fiasco.
BlackCat
member
Right, but at least we're not living in a police state. 
El Tejon
Member
Police state?
Is this not due process? I do not understand your post, Black.
Is this not due process? I do not understand your post, Black.
Desertdog
Member
First thing that should not have been;
Second thing that should not have been;
If the shooter had stopped at this point, there would have been a bunch of scared kids only, but he had to be real stupid and;
IF the story is as reported I am absolutely for the conviction of this guy.
Jim March
Member
Oh, he should be convicted all right. But the kids were a bunch of punks and bullies.
Forgive me if I don't shed any tears for any of these morons, on both sides.
Forgive me if I don't shed any tears for any of these morons, on both sides.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I think he should be convicted...for shooting a firearm inside the city limits and for being a public nuisance.
Teach your kids not to assault other people...not with eggs, not with toilet paper, not with water balloons. Tell them that there are people out there who will shoot them for their innocent fun.
Teach your kids not to assault other people...not with eggs, not with toilet paper, not with water balloons. Tell them that there are people out there who will shoot them for their innocent fun.
Cesiumsponge
Member
I would wish this case becomes an example others will use to avoid causing trouble or chasing down troublemakers with intent to maim or kill...
...somehow I doubt we'll see the end of stories like this.
...somehow I doubt we'll see the end of stories like this.
KriegHund
Member
Theres always someone whos going to snap at the wrong point.
Tis why i always laugh at bullys and the like, becuase, wether they like it or not, chances are they are going to piss of the wrong guy. or woman.
Tis why i always laugh at bullys and the like, becuase, wether they like it or not, chances are they are going to piss of the wrong guy. or woman.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Tongue in cheek, Frandy, tongue in cheek.
Some might recommend a public service award...
Art
Some might recommend a public service award...
Art
Kjervin
Member
I would feel better if the mother said, "if only I had kept him home that night..." I only hope she doesn't have any other children, because if she thinks only the shooter is to blame for this tradegy, she might be in for more disappointment down the line.
As for the shooter, he needs to go away for a long time, largely because society frowns on chasing children down and then shooting them, even if they are where they shouldn't be doing things they shouldn't be doing. It doesn't seem like he was in fear for his life, nor like he was out of his mind with anger, just criminally bad judgement.
Kj
As for the shooter, he needs to go away for a long time, largely because society frowns on chasing children down and then shooting them, even if they are where they shouldn't be doing things they shouldn't be doing. It doesn't seem like he was in fear for his life, nor like he was out of his mind with anger, just criminally bad judgement.
Kj
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I know the law. I simply think that the law is wrong. Much that we classify as assault, manslaughter and murder is not, in my view. I think the charges should be exactly what I said, if there's to be any charge at all. Granted, he will be charged with manslaugher. Convicted, too.
And the surviving scum will feel vindicated and go on to bigger and better assaults. Personally, I think that society should be sending them the message that it's a darn shame that all of them weren't shot through the heart. It's simple really, if you don't want people to shoot at you, then don't throw stuff at them.
I believe in leaving other people completely and 100% in peace by word and by deed. If another person initiates aggression of any degree; then I have no problem with the assailed person responding with lethal force. I know this is not legal under existing law. I simply think that the law should be radically changed.
Basically, thus: If you start a fight with someone and they proceed to beat your brains out...you got what you were begging for. And I believe that the person who gave you what you were begging for should get the thanks of a grateful community.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Actually, Byron, my bet is that he'll be charged with murder rather than manslaughter.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Hawkmoon,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Depends on state law and the prosecutor. Here in Georgia, I know of several instance where a man was charged with murder and the defense attorney grinned. The men charged were acquitted of murder. I guarantee you that with the evidence the state presented that they would have been convicted of voluntary manslaughter
Depending upon state law and the evidence, going for the more serious charge can be a tactical mistake.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Depends on state law and the prosecutor. Here in Georgia, I know of several instance where a man was charged with murder and the defense attorney grinned. The men charged were acquitted of murder. I guarantee you that with the evidence the state presented that they would have been convicted of voluntary manslaughter
Depending upon state law and the evidence, going for the more serious charge can be a tactical mistake.
There is discretion built into the system at every level. Last March I received a report that a 46 year old man had punched a 16 year old boy in the face. Mom and bloody nosed son showed up at the office and demanded the man be arrested. I took their statements and some polaroids of the kid's bloody nose and then went up to talk to the perpetrator.
Well, what the mom and the boy left out of their statements was that the boy and several of his friends were at the mans home pestering his stepdaughter because she had broken up with the victims brother. When the suspect's wife asked them to leave the property, the boys moved off the yard and onto the sidewalk and continued to taunt the girl. When the suspect came home from work and confronted the boys, they refused to move from the sdewalk stating it was public property. The suspect lost his temper and words were excanged and he punched the boy.
The crime met all the definitions of Aggravated Battery because the victim was under 17. Aggravated battery is a felony in Illinois, which would have ment that the suspect would have not been able to bond out that night, would miss work the next day and possibly have a felony conviction with all that it entails. So I arrested him for simple battery, he paid his $110 bond at the jail and went home that night.
The next night the victim's mother was in the office and she was furious, she said she had talked to another officer and he had told her it should have been a felony charge. I then asked her if she thought I should charge her son and his friends with criminal trespass, because the suspect would insist those charges be filed. I told her to call the states attorney and ask him to charge the felony. For some reason after reading all the statements and the report he decided that simple battery was the appropriate charge....
I think manslaughter would be appropriate here unless the man states he intended to kill the egg thrower. He shouldn't have shot the kid, but they shouldn't have provoked him either...Stupid should hurt and it often does...
Jeff
Well, what the mom and the boy left out of their statements was that the boy and several of his friends were at the mans home pestering his stepdaughter because she had broken up with the victims brother. When the suspect's wife asked them to leave the property, the boys moved off the yard and onto the sidewalk and continued to taunt the girl. When the suspect came home from work and confronted the boys, they refused to move from the sdewalk stating it was public property. The suspect lost his temper and words were excanged and he punched the boy.
The crime met all the definitions of Aggravated Battery because the victim was under 17. Aggravated battery is a felony in Illinois, which would have ment that the suspect would have not been able to bond out that night, would miss work the next day and possibly have a felony conviction with all that it entails. So I arrested him for simple battery, he paid his $110 bond at the jail and went home that night.
The next night the victim's mother was in the office and she was furious, she said she had talked to another officer and he had told her it should have been a felony charge. I then asked her if she thought I should charge her son and his friends with criminal trespass, because the suspect would insist those charges be filed. I told her to call the states attorney and ask him to charge the felony. For some reason after reading all the statements and the report he decided that simple battery was the appropriate charge....
I think manslaughter would be appropriate here unless the man states he intended to kill the egg thrower. He shouldn't have shot the kid, but they shouldn't have provoked him either...Stupid should hurt and it often does...
Jeff
beerslurpy
member
Looks like the only winner in this situation was Darwin.
Darwin would dictate that all involved should be eliminated from the gene pool.
Byron, why would a thrashing by the kids' parents not be sufficient? I'm all for that, I'm even all for the guy chasing them down and hauling as many as he can catch before their respective parents. If the parents don't punish their children, then maybe the parents should be shot. Shooting the kids after the threat has (temporarily) abated is beyond the pale.
My vote would be for cutting off his trigger finger and branding "Poor Impulse Control" on his forehead.
Byron, why would a thrashing by the kids' parents not be sufficient? I'm all for that, I'm even all for the guy chasing them down and hauling as many as he can catch before their respective parents. If the parents don't punish their children, then maybe the parents should be shot. Shooting the kids after the threat has (temporarily) abated is beyond the pale.
My vote would be for cutting off his trigger finger and branding "Poor Impulse Control" on his forehead.
CARRY'IN
member
I once heard a talk radio guy expressing joy at a story about a liquor store owner who blasted a teenager in the back with a shotgun for running out of his store with a sixpack of beer. He thought it was great. If anybody thinks someone deserves to die for throwing an egg at their vehicle I dont want to know them and I dont want them anywhere near me.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I don't believe the kids deserve to be killed over small crimes. I do believe that small successful assaults usually lead to bigger and more serious assaults. I do believe in prevention.
What the kids deserved is parents and a society that teaches them that there is no acceptable return on an investment in thuggery.
Instead, what these kids got from society is a reaction as if they were fine, upstanding young men who have been unjustly wronged. They are not. They are apprentice thugs today. They'll be journeymen soon. Then they'll be considering their masterpiece.
So, yes, I maintain that, as a society, our institutions, in this instance, have made us all less safe.
Think about this way: if the law on self-defense stated that there was no linkage between the level of force of the defense and the level of force of the initial assault...don't you think that the number of low-level, I'm just learning my trade, assaults would plummet?
I have no sympathy whatsoever for initiators of aggression. All of my sympathy is reserved for the victims.
I don't have a problem with that but let's expand it to include the egg throwers. Let's cut off their dominant hands and brand 'idiot' on their foreheads.
Sorry, but I don't see the kids' action as innocent juvenile hijinks.
What the kids deserved is parents and a society that teaches them that there is no acceptable return on an investment in thuggery.
Instead, what these kids got from society is a reaction as if they were fine, upstanding young men who have been unjustly wronged. They are not. They are apprentice thugs today. They'll be journeymen soon. Then they'll be considering their masterpiece.
So, yes, I maintain that, as a society, our institutions, in this instance, have made us all less safe.
Think about this way: if the law on self-defense stated that there was no linkage between the level of force of the defense and the level of force of the initial assault...don't you think that the number of low-level, I'm just learning my trade, assaults would plummet?
I have no sympathy whatsoever for initiators of aggression. All of my sympathy is reserved for the victims.
I don't have a problem with that but let's expand it to include the egg throwers. Let's cut off their dominant hands and brand 'idiot' on their foreheads.
Sorry, but I don't see the kids' action as innocent juvenile hijinks.
CARRY'IN
member
1. Whatever you believe, one kid was killed.
2. I dont consider throwing an egg at a vehicle an assault.
3. "as if they were fine, upstanding young men who have been unjustly wronged" sounds more like your imagination than what I read Byron.
Think of it this way: Moderator Byron thinks we are less safe because a convicted felon who shot and killed a teenager for throwing an egg at his vehicle is in jail.
Sorry, I dont think that's right. You stay in Georgia and I'll stay in California.
2. I dont consider throwing an egg at a vehicle an assault.
3. "as if they were fine, upstanding young men who have been unjustly wronged" sounds more like your imagination than what I read Byron.
Think of it this way: Moderator Byron thinks we are less safe because a convicted felon who shot and killed a teenager for throwing an egg at his vehicle is in jail.
Sorry, I dont think that's right. You stay in Georgia and I'll stay in California.
carebear
Member
Carry,
That isn't an accurate restatement of Byron's position.
Kinda makes it clear he thinks the guy did wrong and was punished appropriately.
This, the meat of his statement, makes it quite clear that there needs to be an acknowledgement that the kids were in no way "innocent victims" and should have expected to and have received a consequence, probably physical, perhaps somewhat out of proportion to their actual crime, for their first steps toward more violent assault.
By making such a response lawful they might actually be deterred instead of walking away thinking they can "get away with it" and progressing to even bolder acts.
Just cause you get the worse of a deal, if you provoke it, you are not a "victim".
That isn't an accurate restatement of Byron's position.
Kinda makes it clear he thinks the guy did wrong and was punished appropriately.
This, the meat of his statement, makes it quite clear that there needs to be an acknowledgement that the kids were in no way "innocent victims" and should have expected to and have received a consequence, probably physical, perhaps somewhat out of proportion to their actual crime, for their first steps toward more violent assault.
By making such a response lawful they might actually be deterred instead of walking away thinking they can "get away with it" and progressing to even bolder acts.
Just cause you get the worse of a deal, if you provoke it, you are not a "victim".
CARRY'IN
member
"I have no sympathy whatsoever for initiators of aggression. All of my sympathy is reserved for the victims."
I apologize to Byron if I am reading him wrong, I am just a little confused about who he thinks the victim is in this case.
I apologize to Byron if I am reading him wrong, I am just a little confused about who he thinks the victim is in this case.
Punks, bullies, troublemakers, and other a'holes eventually meet and mess each other up. Sounds like a good example here, and a win-win for all... surviving punks might have learned a lesson in life (i.e. don't initiate trouble, especially with strangers), and an armed felon is taken off the street.
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