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Elementary kids, classrooms and finger guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by bear71, Jan 12, 2010.

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  1. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    Unfortunately, since I was raised that a lady does not use certain language I cannot express my thoughts on the subject. However, feel free to tell the principal and teacher there is a manure pit in Indiana that the owner would allow them to refill their brains should they run low.
     
  2. BULLSI

    BULLSI Member

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    ***?
     
  3. bear71

    bear71 Member

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    "***?"

    That is correct, I was told that word for word. Now, cops have mistakingly fired upon toy gun wielders (suicide by cop), I'm sure it has happened but cops shooting at kids making finger gestures? No way......

    I should have asked her for a source.
     
  4. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    I remember about ten years ago a police officer shot a boy when he mistook a 3 Musketeers bar for a gun. Real genius there. There's also a video on youtube of an officer drawing his gun to stop some kids having a snowball fight for fun. There's quite a few bullies with badges out there.
     
  5. WeedWacker

    WeedWacker Member

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    Seems fitting for the lego fans out there...
     

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  6. alohachris

    alohachris Member

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    We think the 'schools' are there to impart knowledge, which they do, to a degree. The more troublesome lessons are the one's being discussed here. Public schools also teach:

    Blind obedience.
    Argument from "Authority". (Who's right? the teacher. Why? Because s/he's the teacher)
    Fear of being "wrong".
    Bipolar thinking. (You only have 2 options: rebel or submit).

    Public schools are intentionally underfunded/underperform to do the job they are designed to do: Produce large numbers of service employees for America's 'service economy.

    The system is trying to teach your son to conform & obey and the 'guilt' isn't working. Most likely because he knows that what he does (pointing a finger, saying bang) is just that (pointing a finger and saying bang). Your son knows that his behavior isn't responsible for how others choose to perceive it or feel about it. Guilt doesn't work on people that understand that, so they are desperately trying to find another way to 'break' your son.

    Remind your son that he always has choice. He can choose to point his finger or not. If he does he may have consequences to deal with, but ultimately it's up to him.
     
  7. Seenterman

    Seenterman Member

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    When you kids start pointing their fingers and saying bang, they can get mixed up with all sorts of trouble. Meth Rings, Mobbed up strip clubs, corrupt cops. Beware! The teachers are right!

    "Kennny it doesn't go ptew, ptew it goes BANG BANG BANG!!"


    http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104374

    :neener:
     
  8. dadof6

    dadof6 Member

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    I just don't understand...

    why we keep sending our kids to these places to get brainwashed, dumbed down and now lately, persecuted for play-acting?

    No offense to anyone here who is a teacher - but, things like this are the reason (among others) that my wife and I started homeschooling.

    Our kids are our most treasured gift. Why do we give them over to others to inculcate with crazy ideas for 8 hours a day?

    If anybody wonders why or how our country has gotten in the mess its in, just think about how kids have been educated/brainwashed for the past 50- 60 years. Those ideologies of John Dewey (do some research on his Markist philosophies) have been drummed into kids heads since the 20's and 30's.

    Until we break that cycle of inculcation of left-ist socialist ideologies, we are gonna keep going down hill until there is more people who think like that than there are people who are a more conservative ideology.

    Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. :)
     
  9. Superlite27

    Superlite27 Member

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    When I was in 8th grade at a small parochial school, (in Illinois none the less), a friend and myself wrote a ten page long "play".

    It was about a team (comprised of several other less popular students) forming up, and assaulting the school with Mini14's (just like the A-Team!). Right down to the cool van with a stripe down the side. It was very graphic and violent and contained detailed descriptions of the brutal slaying of all the cool football team members, cold hearted cheerleaders, and all the teachers.

    It was snatched by my science teacher while I was working on it during class. After reading it, she walked back down the aisle of desks where I was seated, and informed me that the writing style was good, but the subject matter was inappropriate and that I would not be getting it back. Into the trash it went. She then told me that if I desired to write unassigned material, that I should do so on my own time.

    That was it. I took her advice, and did what she told me.

    Can you imagine what would happen if this was read by a teacher twenty five years later?

    I'd probably be hauled off in a straight jacket, never to be seen again.
     
  10. Shung

    Shung Member

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    you may be older now, but they are coming after you right now :) big mistake you did posting it here ! ;)

    it's never too late ;)
     
  11. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    The country has gone to hell.

    Blame it on people of every faction that have the compulsion of telling you "what is best for you".

    As a 10 year US resident, I see them in both sides of the aisle.
     
  12. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Because most folks aren't capable - intelligence or time-wise to take on the task themselves......and they "trust" the government to do the right thing
     
  13. wishin

    wishin Member

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    I grew up playing with cap guns. My grandson grew up forbidden by my daughter-in-law to have as much as a water pistol. I'm a gun nut. My grandson, now 23, is a gun nut. Go figure.
     
  14. Mikil

    Mikil Member

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    All of this started many years ago when our education system started rewriting history and has been teaching progressive ideals ,submission,anti gun,and anti self defense in direct conflict with the freedom of what our countrys founders and the constitution intended
     
  15. Manco

    Manco Member

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    Regarding the term "progressive" I know what you're referring to, but Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive in his own day, and likewise we should be the progressives that move the country toward our ideals (the true ideals of the United States). The question is how. I don't know, myself, but if the socialists can take over entire institutions and make such great progress for their agenda, then so can we--progress works in both directions.
     
  16. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    Don't worry...

    I have also gone through this with my son. Frankly, I have no problem with him playing cops and robbers. My 3-year-old bit his piece of toast into the shape of a gun at breakfast at preschool one morning and started pointing it at other children at the table. He made noises like he was shooting. Later, he took his two fingers and put them over his head-shooting like Anne Oakley. The women at the day care (who really is a sweet person) told me she didn't understand it and asked if I hunt. I replied rather smugly, "Yes, but I don't hunt people."

    I wish I could find the article I gave to them regarding a study conducted with children who had no guns in the home and were not allowed to watch violence on TV. They were let loose in a room with toy guns and instantly started playing cops and robbers. It cleared the whole matter up. By-the-way, I am a teacher. It does give me a little more pull when talking to someone who just doesn't know any better.

    There is a pull in education to try and explain school shootings. They over analyze everything in an attempt to try and point the finger at one thing that causes a student to snap. Most people are so close-minded they don't realize it is not one thing that causes a kid to snap, but a whole series of unfortunate events. The book, Nineteen Minutes (fiction), does a great job of illustrating this point. It is gut wrenching, but I have heard it has become required reading by some school districts.

    On a related note, I slipped during a parent teacher conference. I had given a parent my cell phone number because I was going out of town duck hunting. I also gave them my wife's cell just in case I dumped mine in the Straits while hunting. The male component of the relationship said, "Oh, you hunt? That is really weird." I asked him why he thought that was "weird." He responded, "Well because you have a liberal arts degree." I responded that many of America’s best writers-Ernest Hemingway, John Steinbeck and Jack London, to name a few, enjoyed hunting. I was just following a time honored tradition that has always been practiced and promoted my literary greats.

    Frankly, I would trust my son in a room with a loaded REAL gun more than I would a kid who has not been trained. My son knows the difference and points at my firearms and says, "Never Touch." When he has developed emotionally, I will coach him on the finer points.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  17. TexasBill

    TexasBill Member

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    I recently got the NRA-ILA 2010 Truth About Gun Owners (TAG) Poll. The NRA wants me to mark down my opinions about various proposed legislation that threatens our rights as gun owners. In the poll were included HR 45 (the Blair Holt bill), S1317 (Lautenberg's bill to give the Attorney General the power to create secret a "no buy" list), S843 (another Lautenberg masterpiece that would close the gun show "loophole" and generally outlaw gun shows) and HR257 (Introduced by Sheila Jackson-Lee from the Houston area).

    I am not particularly worried about HR45 - it's been referred to committee and has no co-sponsors, the same thing that happened to it in the last session of Congress. Lautenberg's stuff has the co-sponsors you'd expect (Everybody from California, Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, Lieberman from Connecticut, and a few others) and has been referred to committee. I can pretty much say that I am opposed to those and make the NRA happy.

    However, I wasn't familiar with HR257. The NRA says the bill "...could send you to prison if a criminal steals your gun and uses it in a crime." But, curious person that I am, I looked up the bill myself and found the bill entitled "Child Gun Safety and Gun Access Prevention Act of 2009" isn't quite as horrible as the NRA claims. Yes, if you allow a minor child to gain access to a handgun, knowing it was likely the child would use it in commission of a crime or to cause injury to another person or himself, or to cause property damage, you could spend some time in the hoosegow (you can already be prosecuted in some states for exactly the same thing). But the bill is intended to require that dealers supply a gun safety or storage device with each firearm, make gun owners responsible for securing their firearms and raises the age for handgun or "semiautomaitc assault weapon" ownership to 21. So you really have to be almost involved with the crime to get in trouble for your gun being used in it.

    It also requires a minor to be accompanied by an adult at a gun show. I am in favor of that, just from having seen some kids at gun shows whose parents weren't watching them or just didn't care what they did.

    What is especially interesting is Sections 7 and 8 of the bill. Section 7 calls for the Attorney General to set up grants for law enforcement agencies to teach gun safety to parents and their children. Section 8 reads as follows:

    "It is the sense of Congress that--
    "(1) each school district should provide or participate in a firearms safety program for students in grades kindergarten through 12 and should consult with a certified firearms instructor before establishing the curriculum for the program; and
    "(2) participation by students in a firearms safety program should not be mandatory if the district receives written notice from a parent of the student to exempt the student from the program. "

    Here is the text of the entire bill at Govtrack:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-257

    So this piece of legislation, which also has no co-sponsors and has been sent to committee, is actually saying schools should include gun safety in their curriculum. This would mean they also must teach some familiarity with firearms, even if it's only theoretical (somehow I just don't see our local school board cranking out a purchase order for a couple hundred 22s).

    Somehow, I can't help but think that some familiarity with firearms beats pretending they don't exist or that they're inherently evil, etc.

    Actually, I suppose we all need to get more involved not only with our children's education but maybe even take some responsibility for that education. If enough of us run for a seat on the school board, perhaps we can change some of the things we complain about: silly attitudes about drawings or pretend guns and some of the more brain-dead "zero-tolerance" policies. Let's demand the grown-ups in the schools act like grown-ups and make rational decisions based on the facts and situation. And, if they can't or don't want to, we'd be in a position to replace them.
     
  18. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  19. Manco

    Manco Member

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    Right, and since they really can't figure out what makes them snap, they try to isolate students from anything remotely related to such unfortunate events, which is never going to work. :rolleyes:

    In the big picture, I blame the media (yeah, an easy target, I know) more than schools. They constantly fear-monger for ratings, making the public feel paranoid and helpless, and have made firearms in particular into objects of fear and loathing. Then they promise instant and sensationalized fame to those who seek it, including students seeking revenge and terrorists. Maybe there's no avoiding this, but people are always wondering why society is going to Hell, and I think that being so closely and instantaneously connected to events happening all over the country and the world, being presented a certain way, is a big part of what enables it. For example, guns used to be many things to many people, including protection, but when the focus is on the murders committed using guns--only the relatively rare bad aspects--and guns become stigmatized over time, the population becomes increasingly disarmed, which in turn helps increase the rate of murder, particularly mass shootings in "gun-free zones," and the ratings of the media. Guns have become so stigmatized by the media (who else?) that all disarmed people these days can think of to do in response to the mass shootings of disarmed people is to disarm even more people--everybody except criminals, of course, who smartly refuse to be disarmed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  20. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    Unfortunately, these researchers are so busy talking they don't see the segment of children that feel left out, helpless and exploited. Add the subtle emotional violence by cliches and authority figures couple with immature judgment and there is a danger area.

    Unfortunately, those that further put pressure on this segment 'for the greater good' increase these pressures. Until the illusion of justice is strengthen across the board in our schools the violence will continue.
     
  21. tradja

    tradja Member

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    I think you've handled it rather well:
    :D
     
  22. project88

    project88 Member

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    proof that times are changing. i graduated in '08 from cheyenne east high school but also attended cheyenne central highschool. All throught junior high and high school our p.e. classes had a 2 week archery unit. My first high school had both an archery team and an air rifle team. My second high school had an archery club. i went back to visit some of my teachers last year and discovered that central had dropped the rifle team and archery because the school district deemed it as non educational and it promoted violence. Also the archery unit had been dropped from the pe classes. Now days you cant do anything in public school thats even seems slightly violent. A friend of mine's son got suspended for 3 days for playing tag. Today's school system is teaching kids that physical contact of any means is bad and that meat is bad for your health. Heck cheyenne has a school that doesnt have a football team because football is too violent.
     
  23. rojocorsa

    rojocorsa Member

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    My "guns in elementary school experience."

    It was in 5th grade and we were learning about US history and our spelling words for a certain week correlated directly with the American Revolution. To review the spelling words, the class oft did charades where one of us chose a word. We then acted out the meaning of said word while the rest of the class tried to guess that word. Fair enough? Well the week we were doing the American Revolution we did the charade thing. I was chosen to go up and act out one of the words and I noticed that "Kentucky Rifle" hadn't been done yet so I was thinking "Hell yeah, this will be easy."

    So I go to the front and start forcing a pretend ramrod down a pretend barrel and then I primed my pretend pan with a pretend paper cartridge. (I forgot to cock the pretend hammer) but I pulled the pretend trigger and pretend recoil from that pretend lead ball hit my shoulder. My classmates figured out that I was doing the Kentucky rifle, and I think one of them even called it out...but then, the teacher tells me to sit down, that what I did was basically unacceptable.

    If I remember my thoughts correctly, they were something to the effect of: "What the F, lady? You formulated that spelling word list, for crying out loud."

    I drew guns all the way from elementary to high-school. Hell, I still draw them. And I've gotten better at it. ;)
     
  24. Manco

    Manco Member

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    The budget cuts at your school must have forced them to keep the older edition of your history books. Haven't you heard by now that Kentucky Assault Sniper Rifles no longer played any part in the American Revolution? Both sides only used muskets, which is OK because hardly anybody does anymore, making it safe for our precious children to learn about. ;)
     
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