Elk and Bench Gun - Caliber Decision

[Coal Dragger]

DR T,

In 6.5mm you have some excellent hunting bullets available that would work really well on elk. Last I checked you can get the Nosler Partition, or Accubond, plus I believe Barnes is making 6.5mm TSX and TTSX. If you can't get reliable penetration and expansion with any of those four, while also achieving acceptable hunting accuracy then something is wrong.

 

[Dr T]

I quite agree. While the variety is not especially wide, the bullets tend to be quite good.

Personally, I favor Hornady Interlock, Speer, and Nosler hunting bullets. I have had good results with all (even if the mid-80's Nosler ballitic tip 270's were a bit frangible--and I am still morning the demise of the excellent Nosler 6 mm 85 gr solid base).

I bought 100 rnds. of the new Hornady Superformance with the 129 gr. SST Interlock. If it shoots as well as the other Hornady factory ammo I have purchased in the last year (my 243 Icon is sub .75 MOA with two different loads), I may be set for several seasons. I will have trouble beating the velocity in a handload.

But to be on the safe side, I picked up some new 120 gr Nosler ballistic tips, some 129 gr Hornady Interlock flat base, and some 140 gr. Berger VLD Hunting bullets. At least one of these should work well.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Sounds like you should be all set then. Personally I have had really good luck (albeit in .280AI through a Cooper M52) with the Partitions and Accubonds for reloading. Pretty much the first test ladder of powder charges with either bullet seated to factory depth have resulted in slightly under 1/2MOA groups for three shots once powder charge density has reached the recommended levels. They will both be a "go to" bullet in my "go to" rifle for sure.

 

[Ole Humpback]

I'd like to see that .45-70 guy carry that thing for miles then get off a 500 yard shot in less than 10 seconds.

Thats what slings were invented for and I've carried probably 30lbs or more over some extremely broke and unfriendly country in the Kentucky Appalachians before. I've never hunted where I'd have more than 200yds of clear sight lines for a shot, not that I'd want to shoot at anything more than 200yds away anyway. And if you're going to give me ten seconds to line up a shot, that might as well be eternity for me since I'm so used to having only a second or two to shoot at a clay or bird.

I personally love a heavy gun loaded with moderate to heavy loads. Keeps recoil down and makes for an easier aim IMHO. My Gold Fusion 12ga weighs in at just under 8lbs empty. The lightest gun I have is a BLR in 257 Roberts and it weighs in at 7.5lbs without the magazine in it.

Oh, by the way, the guys shooting .45-70s at 1000 yards (more likely a .45-90 or -110) are NOT using smokeless powder. Black powder is old fashioned and inefficient but it is amazingly consistent when loaded right. The last BPCR I chronographed was a .40-65 midrange rifle at 1207 fps with a standard deviation of 3 and extreme spread of 11; and that not my best.

I'm understand what BPCR competitions are, but that doesn't mean that there aren't informal shoots with smokeless 45-70's. You're correct in that people typically use BP cartridges such as the 45-90 and up, but I've read of a few people shooting smokeless 45-70's at those ranges just for fun as well.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Ol Humpback, I agree I have found that a reasonable weight rifle inproportion to the cartridge results in a more enjoyable rifle to fire. I have been above timberline where the air is thin, and the breathing short, and found a med to heavy rifle easier to hold steady. I understand the argument of an ultra light rifle, and not feeling the shot on game. I dont feel the rifle weight on game either. just what Ive found.

 

[d2wing]

I'm glad that work for you Ole but think of flat country with little no cover for miles. After a failed stalk or two your going to wish for more range, less weight and faster shots. My guess is the OP knows about this already and wants a flat shooter with a big scope. Just the best tool for the job.

 

[Ole Humpback]

I'm glad that work for you Ole but think of flat country with little no cover for miles. After a failed stalk or two your going to wish for more range, less weight and faster shots. My guess is the OP knows about this already and wants a flat shooter with a big scope. Just the best tool for the job.

Yes, but the 45-70 is proven to drop a buffalo out to 300yds.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/trophy.html

Most of those NA critters were taken between 100 & 300yds on the wide open plains in the western parts of the Dakotas, Nebraska, & Kansas. The OP made no comment on being able to drop an elk at the same range he'd be bench shooting. I did suggest the 375 H&H, but that went quite unnoticed. Reason being is that he is looking for a gun to field nearly the largest & toughest game on this continent. And while those other calibers will do just fine, there are some guides who hunt solely with a 30-30 and have dropped everything in NA with one, why not trade a little drop for more stopping power. The 300 Win Mag will drop 40" at 500yds (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=287), whereas the 375 H&H will drop 48" at 500yds (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=330), assuming factory loads.

I've hunted on the wide open western plains of MO and being able to shoot across a 500yd field is nice, but when windage is taken into account, the likely hood of hitting your target goes way down without shooting sticks or being prone on a hill side. And as I can tell, most don't like to carry gear with them while hunting, which is why I suggested a large bore gun in a moderate cartridge that would be inherently stable for either task.

 

[northwoods99]

35 Whelen or .284 Winchester. Both have good take down power and range.

 

[d2wing]

I've actually been in ND and MO. ND is far more open with much less cover. 300 yards? I suppose you could shoot, go pick up your bullet and shoot again to get in range while the critter falls over laughing or more likely a few sections away still watching you. A section is a mile across. Guess you don't know what that is.

 

[Ole Humpback]

A section is a mile across. Guess you don't know what that is.

I've wrote meets & bounds before. Everything in a meets & bounds is ultimately based on a monument that defines a corner of a section. A section is a 1 mile square (640 acres) of land as defined by a land surveyor off of legal monuments. Also happen to have done that before, both topographical, hydrographical, control layout, and pretty much anything else you can think of in surveying. Even with a 50x LEICA surveying telescope on the rifle, I'd be hard pressed to say a 300yds plus shot is worthwhile.

And I guess thats one of the things I came to appreciate doing surveys: establishing primary control for a construction project over a quarter mile and closing the traverse to 1:40,000 is difficult even with the best surveying instruments money can buy. And now were talking about dropping a nearly 1000lb animal with a rifle & scope that cost a fraction of that $50k LEICA instrument from over a quarter mile away? I'm probably a bit conservative, but I'll pass. If its more than 300yds away, I'll wait. After all, America is one of the few places where most people go hunting on a full stomach for fun.

 

[lloveless]

I'd get the 300 win Mag. It can be downloaded to 30/06 levels or up to the Mag levels depending on what you need to get from the rifle on that particular outing. Ie it would be more versatile.
ll

 

[Peakbagger46]

A .308 should get the job done, be fun to shoot, and provide you with a lot of reloading options for target work as well. Providing of course that you don't want to shoot Mr Griz, the .308 should work fine for everything else if you use good bonded hunting or X bullets.

I am biased, I love my 2 .308 rifles.

 

[Red Cent]

Special rifle made in WV with a Douglas barrel (WV). Hot Dang!!

6.5X284

http://www.newultralight.com/

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Ole Humpback Your never going to convince those guys that what you like and find adequate is OK, mostly because they don't like it. Your suggestion of 375H&H did not go unnoticed in fact when I read it I liked the idea. It has been used successfully in AFRICA, on the plains for years. But the plains in this country are way flatter and tougher than AFRICA.

When you said it I remembered the 375 Holland with 275grain bullet, sighted in to the same point of impact at 100yds. Is almost exactly the same trajectory as the 180grain 30-06. Thats what I like about it.

But I was all locked in on 300 Holland. I have not hunted the plains in North Dakota.
I have only hunted in Kansas ,Colorado, and Wyoming.

Important detail. I would not shoot .375 Holland in anything lighter than a 10 lb rifle.I would also try to find a scope that weighs at least 2lbs kinda makes it apples and oranges .

275 H&H Rimless belted, or 275 H&H flanged you could put on a light rifle platform.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'd get the 300 win Mag. It can be downloaded to 30/06 levels or up to the Mag levels depending on what you need to get from the rifle on that particular outing.

This is what I was thinking too.

 

[d2wing]

Sorry for that demeaning remark Humpback. My guess is that the OP will will be hunting in the badlands. My point is much of North Dakota is very flat with no cover after the crops are out. I have watched hunters drive around sections on the roads unable to do more than watch deer in the middle of the section 800 yards away looking back at them. I'm glad you know how far that is. Much of that country is laid out in section grids and farmed by the section or more as single fields. No brush, hills or trees. The western part of the state has hills and grasslands, but little in trees or brush.
I agree about 300 yard shots. But I do understand the need for for longer range hunting hunting and difficult stalks in a place like that with with extremely flat open country as far as you can see. I know millions of Buffalo were killed with the 45/70 on Western plains, but I thought it was a little off topic for what the op was looking for. Good hunting.

 

[Mike Sr.]

My Elk and Deer rifle: all ruger except the Apex barrel, match grade, gain twist

Cody Wyoming; Bull Elk, 6x6, 580-yrds. In behing the right shoulder, came to rest under the hide of left shoulder towards the front. Factory ammo!


338 Win mag NONE better and recoil with the barrel: 20 ga mag....

 

[Ole Humpback]

Sorry for that demeaning remark Humpback. My guess is that the OP will will be hunting in the badlands. My point is much of North Dakota is very flat with no cover after the crops are out. I have watched hunters drive around sections on the roads unable to do more than watch deer in the middle of the section 800 yards away looking back at them. I'm glad you know how far that is. Much of that country is laid out in section grids and farmed by the section or more as single fields. No brush, hills or trees. The western part of the state has hills and grasslands, but little in trees or brush.
I agree about 300 yard shots. But I do understand the need for for longer range hunting hunting and difficult stalks in a place like that with with extremely flat open country as far as you can see. I know millions of Buffalo were killed with the 45/70 on Western plains, but I thought it was a little off topic for what the op was looking for. Good hunting.

No problem. The internet is full of people who talk about something without ever having done it. I have the exact opposite problem that those hunters do, deer seem to spring up on me in the wide open areas and I'm unable to shoot them.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/documents/area_brochures/8310map.pdf

I've hunted that place before. Its been restored to natural prairie for most of it and the woods have been managed to be more in tune with what was there pre-European settlement. My dad & I were setting on the SE end of the second levee in the marsh watching for deer. East of that marsh was wide open corn field. We were setting under a tree on that levee and had at least 500yds of clear sight lines in all directions when out of no where a deer ran past us not 10yds away from us. Before I could get the scope dialed down from 12x to 4x to see the deer (well within 100yds), it was gone.

 

[natman]

Actually what the OP is looking for is not uncommon or unrealistic. If you read on the long range hunting forums you will see reference to "tactical hunters", rifles that are made for precision shooting as well as hunting. You will definetely be looking in the 9-10 pound range. A Remington SPS Varmint or Tactical in 308 will certainly fill this role. Go with the varmint you have te option of staying with the 26" barrel or shortening it to your desired length, although I wouldn't go below 20".

I suppose it's possible in some places to hunt off a bench, but it's not like any elk terrain I ever hunted. I really don't want to lug a 10 lb rifle up steep hills at 9000 feet in the snow.

I'd recommend a 30-06 or 35 Whelen in a 7 lb rifle.

 

[X-Rap]

Many years ago before I was as heavily invested in firearms I used to pack a 77V in 280 up the mountains of New Mexico, 25 yrs later I often carry a Weatherby 338-378 with a big Leupold up the mountains of Colorado. Its not my choice for back packing but it is a fine elk rifle.
I have some very light weight rifles and agree that at the end of the day they feel a little better to carry but for what the OP has described I would still be searching for a Sendero in 7mm or 300 maybe topped with a 30mm Leupold.

 

[osprey176]

May as well puke up my opinion too.I own,among other rifles,a 257 Wby,7x57,.308,30-06,.338 Win,and a .444.Each will do the job on elk quite well, at reasonable ranges,with the correct bullets.In the smaller calibers,it is much more important to use a top quality bullet like a Barnes,Partition,ect.If you handload,it is not a big deal to work up loads.With this said,i have used the 30-06,and the .338 to take elk.I don't have a problem with the recoil of either,but you may be different.If you do handload,you can load lighter loads for the bench.By the way,plenty of elk have been taken with .243's,but you better get close,and use a top quality bullet.Good luck on your hunt,congrats on drawing that tag.

 

[StretchNM]

how does a 25 06 make a better elk round than a 270 win??

Who even said one was better than the other at anything, from elk to lizards?
And.........what makes you think a 270 Win is better for Cape Buffalo than a 458 Lott?

D)

 

[M_E_]

300 Winchester Magnum.

DO NOT get a 300 WSM. The mag boxes are too short to let you set the bullets out far enough to use them to their full potential.

 

[Art Eatman]

Re-thinking a bit, and assuming that the 600-yard number is a serious consideration: Odds are that the .300 WinMag would likely be a better choice than the '06. I know the '06 works to 400 and 500 yards, but beyond 400 is "iffy".

I tend to like a 30-caliber since there are many reloading options. E.g., a lead gas-check bullet ahead of a pistol powder like 2400 for plinking and eye-finger coordination. No recoil to amount to anything, and reasonable groups. if you really want to play, an 00 buck ahead of five grains of pistol powder makes for a nice squirrel load.