Elk Bullet Debate

[coloradokevin]

I'm developing some handloads at the moment, as I start some load testing for elk hunting. I just thought I'd throw this subject out here to see what kind of real world experiences you guys have had with various bullets. This is one of those subjects that could have probably easily ended up in the reloading section, but I thought it would be best to place it here, since I'm looking for elk-dropping performance.

I'm shooting a .308 Win, and will be looking for a load that will yield suitable performance to 450 yards (I'm fully capable of shots beyond that distance, but I think the .308 might start losing too much steam for elk beyond that range. As such, I set my tentative limit at that distance).


Here's what I'm looking at so far, and my philosophy on them:


1) Barnes 165gr TSX:

I went lighter with this bullet than my gut instinct would have suggested, mostly because I've heard so many people suggest lighter weight bullets with the Barnes family (due in part to the long length for given weight issue). Anyway, I hope to be able to keep this bullet cranking at 1800 fps or greater out to my target distance. Based on my current target loads with a 175 grain bullet, I'll hopefully be sending this bullet out of the barrel at or above 2,600fps.

It seems that some people seem to love these bullets, and others claim that they didn't expand like they were supposed to. My attraction to these bullets is that I've generally heard they yield good accuracy out of most guns.

2) Nosler Partition 180 grain:

This bullet is a classic, and was recommended to me by more than one elk hunter. I'm a bit concerned with how well this bullet will perform from an accuracy perspective, though I won't know until I hit the range with them. It's also more of a flat base design, whereas I normally shoot boat-tailed match bullets through my gun. I don't think that change will result in too many problems at 450 yards or less, but we'll have to see. This bullet is also getting on the heavier side for the .308 Win, but I have a 1:11 twist in this gun, and have had my best match results shooting 175 grain SMK bullets out to 800 yards.


3) Sierra Gameking 180grain:

I don't hear of too many folks using the Gameking line, but I'm attracted to it because of the performance I've had with 175grain Matchkings in my rifle. Though the bullets are different, I kind of expect decent performance from the Gameking. The thing I'm not sure about is how effective this bullet would be on an elk at .308 velocities.



So, that's where I am at the moment, and I'd love to hear your experiences/recommendations!

 

[Bio-Chem]

If you are a fan of the bt design why didn't you look at Nosler's Accubond instead of Partition?

 

[coloradokevin]

If you are a fan of the bt design why didn't you look at Nosler's Accubond instead of Partition?

Sigh... User error on my part, mostly. The Accubond wasn't available when I went out bullet shopping yesterday (just like oh-so-many other bullets at the moment). When I looked at the box for the partitions it looked like it was a boat-tailed design (I was actually just seeing the rear crimp shown in their picture). Oh well, meant to get a boat-tail, didn't quite get there... still got to shoot the bullets at something!

But, I'll definitely take a look at the Accubond if I see them. Thanks for the tip!

 

[jmr40]

I wouldn't go any heavier than 150's with a Barnes bullet in 308. No heavier than 150 in a 30-06. Save the 165-168's for magnums. You need more speed than you can get from a 308, and even 150's are pushing it. If you can't start them at close to 3000 fps, drop weight until you can.

The 180 Partition is a good bullet, but they don't have good BC's which will hurt your long range goals. Hard to argue with it at reasonable ranges though. I'd personally put about a 400 yard limit on my comfort level with a 308 on elk. If you want to shoot farther than that I think you need to step up to one of the magnums.

If I were taking my 308 elk hunting I'd be loading 150 gr Barnes bullets @ 2900 fps or 165 gr Accubonds at 2850. The Accubonds give you the same penetration as the Partitions with much better BC for flatter trajectory and retained speed at long range.

If you cannot find Accubonds look at the 165 or 180 gr Ballistic Tips. Nosler has made those bullet weights in .30 cal much tougher. They are essentially the same bullet as the Accubond now.

Don't worry so much about energy numbers that the heavier bullets give. It is about bullet construction. The 150 gr Barnes bullets will probably out penetrate the 180's and as long as you can keep impact velocity up to around 2000 fps you will get adequate expansion.

Another option you may want to explore is the Berger Hunting bullets. They are not a good choice for less than perfect shot placement, but if you put one in the lungs at even extreme range they probably kill quicker than any bullet out there. They don't rely as much on bullet speed so they are a good choice for long range with non-magnum guns.

 

[X-Rap]

I personally had the most disappointing result from Federal Premium loads in 308 at an extended distance, I think they were 180 Nosler bullets. My own opinion is that they failed to expand at the reduced velocity at the distance. The bull was lung shot and eventually expired after some confusion and doubt as to my abilities to hit my mark.
That part is a long story and best told face to face over a drink but suffice it to say that my go to bullets are Rem. Cor lokt, Hornady Interlock or Balistic Tip or Game King in any non magnum and many of my magnum loads and I'd stay down at 165 or under. The Sierra should be a fine bullet in 165.

 

[Gunnerboy]

If you are a fan of the bt design why didn't you look at Nosler's Accubond instead of Partition?

My highly recomended vote.

 

[T.R.]

I've taken elk with my .308 carbine but my longest shot was approx 225 yards. I'm a huge fan of bonded bullets by Speer.

TR

 

[Art Eatman]

I plead ignorance of all but the Sierra--but I'd have no doubt about the 180-grain SPBT. I found it to me sub-MOA in my '06. Made a notably deeper dimple into steel at 500 yards than either the 150 or 165.

 

[Don McDowell]

My only experience with Sierra game kings is from the 1970's, and that wasn't good in the 7 mag or the 06.
Not one of the choices you listed, but the Hornday 165 gr interlock bullet has proven to be a reliable elk killer at ranges from near to far in both the 308 and 06.
I also have been rather impressed with the Winchester 180 gr power points in the 308.

 

[WYOMan]

I'm going to throw in another vote for the Accubond.

 

[Fremmer]

I use the 165 grn federal game king for deer; It knocks them down hard. It's also very accurate in my .308

 

[Jim Watson]

I am not a hunter but a successful elk hunter I know shoots SGK.
He says they do tend to shed the jacket.
How does he know?
Carving up DEAD elk.

 

[climbnjump]

I'm shooting a .308 Win, and will be looking for a load that will yield suitable performance to 450 yards...

1) Barnes 165gr TSX:

I went lighter with this bullet than my gut instinct would have suggested, mostly because I've heard so many people suggest lighter weight bullets with the Barnes family (due in part to the long length for given weight issue). Anyway, I hope to be able to keep this bullet cranking at 1800 fps or greater out to my target distance. Based on my current target loads with a 175 grain bullet, I'll hopefully be sending this bullet out of the barrel at or above 2,600fps

.

You might want to rethink your 450 yard range for this bullet. You can call Barnes customer service to double check, but I believe they recommend a minimum velocity of 2000 fps for reliable expansion with the TSX. With a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps and a BC of .380, that bullet will drop to 2000 fps at around 275 yards.

 

[lefteye]

My preferred bullet for elk is the Nosler Partition. I have taken elk (and a black bear) with the 180 gr. Partition Protected Point in my .300 Win Mag. Assuming I could develop accurate handloads with these bullets, I would prefer a 165 gr. Partition in a .30-06 and a 150 gr. Partition in a .308.

 

[coloradokevin]

You might want to rethink your 450 yard range for this bullet. You can call Barnes customer service to double check, but I believe they recommend a minimum velocity of 2000 fps for reliable expansion with the TSX. With a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps and a BC of .380, that bullet will drop to 2000 fps at around 275 yards.

I always heard that you could get reliable expansion with this bullet on game down to 1600 fps, but I've never called Barnes directly to ask. I'll certainly add that to my to-do list!

My current load in the .308 Win should be delivering around 1900 fps at 450 yards, or thereabouts (need to pull out the ballistic chart to see for sure). I originally built my target load in an attempt to replicate Federal Gold Medal Match ammo, and my velocity is just slightly higher than their stated velocity on the box. They claim that the 175 grain match bullet leaving the barrel at 2620fps is still cruising at 1940fps at 400 yards.

Admittedly, we're talking about two entirely different bullets here, and I'll need to run some numbers to see where things land with the Barnes choices. But, I was setting my maximum "allowable" distance with a goal of being above 1800 fps at whatever distance that ends up being. If I can keep the speed longer, I'd increase my shot comfort range, and similarly I'd decrease it if I shed velocity too quickly. I'm definitely hoping that I can put together an effective and accurate load that will perform to at least 400 yards (hopefully 450). That distance is well within my comfort range for accurate shot delivery, but I am a little worried about the .308 performance on an elk-sized animal at that distance (as you mentioned).

 

[Lloyd Smale]

my opinion for what its worth is the 308 doesnt need anything heavier then a 165 and doesnt have enough velocity to justify premium bullets. A good cup and core 165 will kill anything id ever take the 308 out for.

 

[interlock]

rangey shots

Colorado kevin,
450 yards is a long way.

I have killed lots of deer with lots of bullets including big lowland reds. But i have never killed one that far away.

You have to consider that at that long range your impact velocity will be low. Some have talked about gamekings losing their jackets... well in my experience they do... at close range when pushed too fast. This bullet is designed for what you want.

I also really like speer hotcor. But at this range they may be a little hard. I tend to limit my shots to 200-250 yards. I have been using hornadies interlocks lately in my .30-06 i use 165gr interlock (3045). it is really accurate from my rifle. For me, accuracy is king.

steve

 

[Lennyjoe]

All of my elk have been taken with a 180 gr partition out of my -06 at less than 100 yards. I've seen plenty of elk at long distances but the ones I've taken home fell to the Partition in heavy cover at short distance.

 

[coloradokevin]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to need to cook up some ballistic gelatin at home in the next couple of weeks and perform some range testing at the 400-500 yard lines to see if I'm still getting the desired bullet penetration and expansion at those distances. Problem is, rifles penetrate quite a bit, so it would take a fairly large gelatin block for such a test.

 

[Don McDowell]

Don't know if you can still get them or not, but a few years back Cabela's was offering ballistic gelatin tubes. You could get one of those for each bullet, set them up at your 450 yds, and determine the penetration and more importantly the wound channel of your selected bullets.

 

[Kachok]

We have used Sierra Game Kings exclusively for hunting with the 06, they deliver DRT performance every time, I would have no hesitation using them on larger game.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

If you are sure to be hunting at 400yds then as previously stated the premium bullets will battle to deploy and mushroom given the drop in velocity. This is almost certainly true of the Barnes. The Barnes will penetrate nicely but if not a difrect kill you may battle with a blood trail as the wound may well close up and not

I recently shot a Blue Wildebeest at 225yds, standing broadside with 180gr. Accubonds down at 30-06 with a MV of 2620fps. The bullet was recovered just under the skin on the opposite side and the diameter has increased to just under 5/8th of an inch. Estimated impact velocity was 2300fps.

My vote would be to get your MV as high as possible and to throw 180gr SGK at the Elk. The game king will break up and create the required damage. These are terribly accurate bullets that come into their own at distance, the only bullet more accurate in my 30-06 is a 165gr. SGK.

According to the Sierra software;

 

[Andrew Leigh]

The 180gr. Accubond for comparison.

 

[GJgo]

All the elk I've taken have been with a 180 TSX out of my 300 WSM. I'm actually considering dropping to a 165 TSX to get my speed up. If I had a 308 to hunt elk with I wouldn't hesitate, but I'd do two things differently. First, I'd use a 150 TTSX or a 168 TTSX. They open up better in non-magnums. Second, I wouldn't be taking shots past around 300 yds because chasing a wounded elk really, really sucks. It sucks real bad. Barnes need speed, and when they get it they work very well.

If you insist on long shots with a 308, which I don't recommend but I have seen it done successfully, I'd use something softer like an Accubond that will mushroom at lower speeds. Bullets like the Ballistic Tip & the Amax actually mushroom well at lower speeds (long range) but they will blow up at close range, and you need something that will work no matter what.

The Partition gets the job done however the long range accuracy can often be poor. I don't think it's the right tool for your job.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I get just over 1.25" @ 200yds with IMR 4350 and Partitions out of my Savage 110. Hit a 5" gong @ 300 meters just about every time off the bench with the same load. I'm happy with that for Elk.

Haven't tried the Gameking though and just might do that next time out Elk hunting.