Ernie Langdon - lesson in the brand of gun means nothing

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Das Pferd

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Has won national championships with the Beretta and now the Sig. Just goes to show you that all these "Glocks are trash 1911 rules" and "x gun is better then y gun" threads and opinions are meaningless.

Its simply a tool, the person determines how well it is used.
 
As Thumbtack made it clear, one has to preference the statement that the gun doesn't matter by saying "within certain limits". A good shooter will shoot any gun better than a bad shooter. But at the higher levels of target competition, some guns just won't hack it. Period. No way a Lorcin or an old .32 breaktop will be used to win a major match.

I think it safe to say that the best race car driver in the world won't win at Indy or Daytona driving a stock Yugo, and the same type of thing applies to guns.

Jim
 
Langdon is a great guy, too.

I called him a couple of weeks ago with a night sight Q, and he spent over 15 minutes on the phone with me giving me all kinds of great practical advice. When you look at his CV, you see this is a guy whose practical advice is worth a ton. Anyway, I'm just happy to know another top-notch gun guy who's a real nice fellow, too: like Suarez, Stanford, Jack Furr, Steve Rodriguez, etc. Funny how the guys who are real lethal don't feel the need to act like jerks. :)
 
While it may be the person that determines how well a gun is used, I doubt that Langdon had straight off the shelf guns as he was apparently sponsored. Sig named a model after him, the "Langdon Signature model."

Gun sponsers will undoubtedly do everything they can to make sure that one of their sponsored shooters will have the best functioning gun possible. While stock, they will most certainly be tuned. Langdon could do only so good if his guns didn't run properly. It is hard to win when your gun fails.
 
neither his beretta 92 nor sig 220 were to same one that you would buy at your local dealer. he studied and worked over both to optimize them for competition. so not only is he a great shot, a great teacher and all around nice guy, but he is also a very good pistolsmith.

for whatever it is worth...the beretta elite II is much closer to his competition beretta 92 than the langdon signature model is to his sig 220...note the lack of the mag chute and the beavertail tang.
 
EL bought his old style (original rail) 220ST from a gun shop. He wanted to compete against the 1911 crowd and his 9mm Beretta was a nonstarter due to caliber (apparently, he didn't like the Cougar).

He made all the mods himself and won the championship. After that, Sig approached him and licensed his name to a Sig 220ST with some cosmetic changes.
 
So he "tweaked" his Beretta and Sig pistols to blow everyone away, what is wrong with that? Its not like the shooter's with their 1911's were shooting box stock, out of the box pistols either.

There is an article in "Velocity", put out by Sig, that has an interview with Ernest on the things he did to the P220.
 
To be clear, every SIG in the hands of SIG sponsored shooters has come from their pro shop, not off the shelf. You could certainly get your gun worked over similarly from them. (Or do many of those mods yourself.)

Ernest Langdon is a real nice guy. I've talked to him in person a few times at various matches, and he's always got a smile and a kind word for anyone who wants to talk to him. When I make it to the pro level, I'll make sure I am just as friendly as him. ;) (Any day now. I'm practicing really hard....)
 
There have been two good write-ups about Langon in the last two American Handgunners (Jul/Aug and Sep/Oct) by Dave Anderson. Here's a quote from the first one:

"I didn't have a sponsorship with SIG when I first used the P220, in fact I hadn't even talked with them." I bought my first SIG from a local gun store, a P220 ST built on a stainless steel frame. The pistol I'm using in 2004 has the new style accessory rail. I added a beavertail and magazine chute to the frame by TIG welding."

Much more in the excellent articles; worth checking out. :)
 
This is from the article in "Velocity". Its an interview with Ernest and his P220.

Q. Did you make any modifications to the gun (Sig P220ST) before you started competion with it?

EL. Very little, actually. On any piece that I shoot much I go over the exterior of the gun and knock off all the sharp edges. SIGs don't really have many sharp edges to start with. There were only two areas I really worried about. One, I rounded off the sides of the underside of the trigger guard. When I'm standing there practicing, doing draw after draw after draw, the top of my support hand index finger is constantly slamming into that trigger guard. If I don't smooth that area out I'll get a blister before the day's out. Two, I grip the gun really high and sometimes the web of my hand will actually roll up and over the grip tang and into the path of the slide. I had to round off the rear edge of the slide or it was just a matter of time before it cut me.

I changed the sights, like all competition shooters do. I'm using a dawson fiver optic front sight. The same thing Robbie Leatham had on his 1911 at the IDPA Nationals this year, as a matter of fact. The rear sight is a prototype Scott Warren came up with. It looks like a standard notch rear sight except that the bottom of the notch, instead of being squared off, is rounded. That, along with the overall shape of the rear sight blade, really sucks your eye into the rear notch. I don't know when he's going to start selling it, but it's coming soon.

I also did some trigger work. The double action on my competition gun is about 6-pounds, and the single action is about 2-pounds. I've been playing around with the SIG triggers for a few years now. I've figured out some things, so much so that I now offer SIG trigger work through my company. I call what's been done to my gun the Level III trigger job. It entails polishing all the contact surfaces, changing the hammer spring, and installing a Speed Bump trigger that limits over travel.

The gun came with those huge, heavy Hogue rubber grips. I replaced them with wooden grips because the Hogues actually made the gun too heavy. (Any gun used to compete in IDPA CDP division can't weigh more than 41 ounces.)

Finally, I took a steel 1911 mag funnel and TIG welded it to the bottom of the mag well, because, as you know, in IDPA being able to reload fats is a huge deal, especially in CDP with an 8-round magazine where you pretty much know that you'll have to reload on every stage.
 
To me the most amazing part of Mr. Langdon's victory over Rob Leatham et al was not his SIG but the fact that it was double action. Kinda made the other 1911 guys bow to his prowess, and not so much to the brand.

BOB
 
6 pound DA?! 2 pound SA?! Holy crap. That certainly makes you rethink DA/SA trigger pulls. :D
 
I know of one master class IDPA shooter who switched from 1911s to a P220ST and has never looked back. He loves the gun. You won't catch me using one due to the fact that I'm a lefty and I don't dig the controls. I can't wait to shoot a DAK though...
 
With the "worked" on triggers available now on the non-SA type guns, I wonder in the future whether different divisions will even be needed.

I felt a modified Glock trigger once and they can be close to a medium 1911 trigger. In IDPA where distances are close and just about any out of the box gun is accurate enough, your movement and time are more important.

I doubt the shooting organizations had these types of triggers in mind when they created a division for these "safer , heavy trigger pull " type handguns.

The shooter is the prime mover of course.

I'm just glad Langdon wasn't shooting a Glock and won; the Glockers would have been intolerable. ;)
 
45auto:

You weren't paying attention to who won overall at the Carolina Cup this year, were you? ;) All the SIG shooters did remarkably well, taking overall and 2nd places in many divisions. The top shooter, however, was Dave Sevigny, of, you guessed it.... Team Glock. :) (We're already intolerable though, that's why you didn't notice a difference....)

(Although to be clear, you could give Sevigny just about any gun on the planet and he'd dominate, he's a freakishly talented shooter.)
 
Don't worry Jayman, the reason Sevigny was overlooked was because the Glock is such an unphotogenic firearm, there were no pictures of Dave taken. ;)
 
Ha, just a little humor. ;)

Sevigny and similiar talents could beat me using a J-frame.
 
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