Europeans and Australians interest in USA gun ownership.

[Zaydok Allen]

It is actually called authoritarianism. I think roughly 30% of the population are authoritarians. Another 30% become authoritarian when in danger.

I dont think it is a character flaw as sometimes authoritarianism is what a society needs to survive. Same with sociopathy, altruism etc.

The reason I don't use that term in this context is that authoritarianism requires and exerts complete and total obedience to the authority of the state. Freedom is second to and completely subject to the authority of the government, or whatever controlling entity. That is certainly an applicable notion and definition in this context, but I feel there is an added element in this situation.

In Nazi Germany, Hitler used the Jewish people as a scapegoat. He blamed them for all the problems in their country. I use the fake term "Hitlerism" because I feel that America, and specifically American gun owners are used as scapegoats in a political sense, by loud antigun commentators from other countries, and from within. I feel we are blamed for acts of violence because we believe in a system that maintains and honors our constitution as it was designed and written, and blames people for violent acts of people, not inanimate objects. I'm not waiting to be marched off to an internment camp, and I sure am not trying to make light of the atrocities committed in WWII.

Anyway, that's why I feel a stronger, though made up term is warranted. When authoritarian leaders and governments start blaming a specific group for what they perceive to be a problem, it seems like more than just authoritarianism to me. But I'm not trying to start a semantic argument or anything, especially for a made up word.

 

[yugorpk]

The reason I don't use that term in this context is that authoritarianism requires and exerts complete and total obedience to the authority of the state. Freedom is second to and completely subject to the authority of the government, or whatever controlling entity. That is certainly an applicable notion and definition in this context, but I feel there is an added element in this situation.

In Nazi Germany, Hitler used the Jewish people as a scapegoat. He blamed them for all the problems in their country. I use the fake term "Hitlerism" because I feel that America, and specifically American gun owners are used as scapegoats in a political sense, by loud antigun commentators from other countries, and from within. I feel we are blamed for acts of violence because we believe in a system that maintains and honors our constitution as it was designed and written, and blames people for violent acts of people, not inanimate objects. I'm not waiting to be marched off to an internment camp, and I sure am not trying to make light of the atrocities committed in WWII.

Anyway, that's why I feel a stronger, though made up term is warranted. When authoritarian leaders and governments start blaming a specific group for what they perceive to be a problem, it seems like more than just authoritarianism to me. But I'm not trying to start a semantic argument or anything, especially for a made up word.

Theres a word already . Its called Fascism. Hitler was a Fascist. So was Mussolini and Franco and 3/4 of the governments of South America. I'm sure theres quite a few people in this country , and most countries, who would happily turn to a more Fascist style of government especially in times of distress. We see that in some of our choices for President this time around.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

Its called Fascism.

And, it's alive and well in America, chronicled in detail in -

Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Change

 

[Jim Watson]

And of course we never tell foreign dictators how to run their countries.
And of course we never attempt "nation building" in inimical foreign lands that we should just defeat, depose, and depart.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Original post by Jim Watson

And of course we never tell foreign dictators how to run their countries.
And of course we never attempt "nation building" in inimical foreign lands that we should just defeat, depose, and depart.

In other words, do like we did in World War One? And have a worse war to fight twenty years later?

Our most successful war in the last century was World War Two -- we went in and stayed in. And as a result, our former enemies are now our allies.

And as a bonus, when the Soviets tried to gobble up Europe, we were there to stop them. If we had pulled out of Europe in 1945, England would be part of the Soviet Union today.

 

[Jim Watson]

On the other hand, we have been in Afghanistan for 15 years with little positive to show for it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

On the other hand, we are not running Afghanistan, as we ran Germany and Japan.

 

[JTHunter]

GP - your tale about the man defending his family was reported here in the States. The writer even made references to a similar situation in the UK where the farmer defending his family is now doing "hard time".

 

[Deanimator]

In usernet, I once had a Brit tell me that, "women shouldn't be allowed to carry guns" because he was afraid that he'd "be mistaken for a rapist and shot".

I replied, "How is it that you act around women that you're afraid that you'll be 'mistaken' for a rapist? Put down the butcher knife, pull up your pants and you'll be just fine."

Of course in the same usenet newsgroup, I saw an Australian man pretend to be an Indian woman who advocated that women submit to forcible rape rather than harm the rapist with a gun.

As with U.S. anti-gunners, there's a lot of misogyny and racism in European anti-gun circles.

 

[HoosierQ]

We decry the state of things in Europe and Australia all the time. That is equally pointless. The biggest change that Americans need to get into their heads since the latter half of the 20th century is that what is good for America is not necessarily good for anybody else. Places like Switzerland have a good thing going. They even get to own guns. Everybody in Switzerland owns a gun as far as I know...I think it's required. However, by our standard they have very strict gun control laws. Every gun is registered to the hilt and transfers are strictly regulated. I think you are even required to practice at the govt's expense! I think if I were Swiss, I'd be fine with it. I might even be fine with it were I to move there from here but I have no plans to do that so it's moot.

But I do agree 100%, don't like American laws, stay where you're at. They have beaches is France and Spain...go there.

 

[yugorpk]

We decry the state of things in Europe and Australia all the time. That is equally pointless. The biggest change that Americans need to get into their heads since the latter half of the 20th century is that what is good for America is not necessarily good for anybody else. Places like Switzerland have a good thing going. They even get to own guns. Everybody in Switzerland owns a gun as far as I know...I think it's required. However, by our standard they have very strict gun control laws. Every gun is registered to the hilt and transfers are strictly regulated. I think you are even required to practice at the govt's expense! I think if I were Swiss, I'd be fine with it. I might even be fine with it were I to move there from here but I have no plans to do that so it's moot.

But I do agree 100%, don't like American laws, stay where you're at. They have beaches is France and Spain...go there.

Switzerland isnt as swimming in guns as a lot of people think. It certainly used to be much more open to firearms practice for national defense training but a lot of what you here about the Swiss gun culture are memories from a long gone era. Ammo is much more tightly regulated there now and generally must be used at gun clubs only.

 

[Midwest]

Over on the open carry forum, they also have also have news from Australia, UK and other countries.


One of the current hot topics is this...




Burglar killed in NSW break-in/homeowner charged

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...glar-killed-in-NSW-break-in-homeowner-charged


"Charges have now been upgraded to murder. News is reporting the homeowner found the intruder standing over his infant daughters bed and broke his neck in the subsequent fight"
.

 

[grampajack]

It's just the nature of communists. They want to control their own lives while dictating how you should live yours. I think jealousy also has a lot to do with it, and they focus in on things that they perceive as failures on our part. The media doesn't help either. They make it look like we have more violence here than in other parts of the world. When Europeans talk about gun violence they only want to talk about American mass shootings, but they clam up whenever shootings in their own countries are brought up. It's like Paris (twice) and now Brussels never even happened.

 

[yugorpk]

Over on the open carry forum, they also have also have news from Australia, UK and other countries.


One of the current hot topics is this...




Burglar killed in NSW break-in/homeowner charged

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...glar-killed-in-NSW-break-in-homeowner-charged


"Charges have now been upgraded to murder. News is reporting the homeowner found the intruder standing over his infant daughters bed and broke his neck in the subsequent fight"
.

Some of the reports on this Ive seen werent as cut and dry as it seems. It looks like the homeowner might have tackled the guy as he was running out the door and the guy broke his neck in the subsequent beat down/fight. Right or wrong I can think of quite a few jurisdictions in the US where he might be charged as well.

 

[SSN Vet]

Liberal ninnies can't resist advocating the gub'ment "fixing" every one else's "problems"...

It's what they live for.

 

[Realist]

If by moving violation you mean driving a car - a condition of drivers licenses is that you are required to present it when stopped by police.
Walking down the street you don't need to carry any ID.

 

[herkyguy]

I spent a week at a conference with mostly European and Australian folks. A few conversations went in the direction of politics and guns. Not really a good outlook on American gun ownership, but ultimately most understood that America has a different set of values.

I was as polite as I could be but always tried to boil it down to the concept of self-reliance.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Originally posted by Herkyguy

I spent a week at a conference with mostly European and Australian folks. A few conversations went in the direction of politics and guns. Not really a good outlook on American gun ownership, but ultimately most understood that America has a different set of values.

I was as polite as I could be but always tried to boil it down to the concept of self-reliance.

They really can't understand. Years ago a Scots lady asked me why we Americans complain about taxes, telling me, "We say taxes are the price we pay for freedom."

I replied, "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, not eternal taxation."

She just couldn't wrap her head around it.

 

[Midwest]

I spent a week at a conference with mostly European and Australian folks. A few conversations went in the direction of politics and guns. Not really a good outlook on American gun ownership, but ultimately most understood that America has a different set of values.

I was as polite as I could be but always tried to boil it down to the concept of self-reliance.

I suggest mentioning the 2005 Supreme Court Ruling to them

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/p...a-constitutional-duty-to-protect-someone.html


"WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation."

Therefore we should and must protect our own selves.
.

 

[YankeeFlyr]

I got off the plane at Sydney Kingsford-Smith on 15 December 2000, and that seemed to be the first of 2 things the Aussie people wanted to talk about...America and guns. Incessant questions. Debates.

And extreme curiosity.

The other thing was the presidential election...you remember...the one that had to be adjudicated that year.

Caught a lot of ribbing about that, I did...

I spent the winter there, into 2001. Drove about 8,000 km around that country.

Brought my now-wife some opal chips from Coober Pedy.

 

[entropy]

If they want the rights we have, legally move here and become a citizen.
If they don't like freedom, stay where they are.

It has been proven repeatedly in history that rebelling against the British government will bring successful results.

Just a thought.

 

[SwaneeSR]

So the past four months I have been working with an equipment vendor from the Netherlands. I traveled to the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany three times since December. I had numerous conversations regarding the US and gun ownership. The last two weeks my counterpart from the Netherlands was over here in the US as we wrapped up our project. His original opinion was that we are crazy in the US with our fascination with guns. Now he understands that to me at least, a gun is a tool like any other to be used for hunting or self-defense or league shooting like trap. He was really interested in my CCW permit and discussions around the use of force and potential consequences around using a firearm for self-defense.

On the same project, I have a group of guys from Singapore visiting. They are getting very similar equipment. Many other countries have compulsory military service like Singapore. It is the time they are exposed to firearms. Singapore is a former British colony located near Malaysia and Indonesia, it is NOT China. So on Friday, they asked if I had any guns. I responded yes. They inquired how many? I said many. Than they asked if I would take them to the range. Here in Minnesota and Wisconsin, outdoor ranges are opening for Spring. We are going to be working in some range outings over the next several weeks.

Once my European counterparts and the guys from Singapore meet a real rapid gun-toting American, it turned out firearm ownership is much more understandable than they thought. It might even be fun.

Swanee

 

[Deanimator]

If by moving violation you mean driving a car - a condition of drivers licenses is that you are required to present it when stopped by police.
Walking down the street you don't need to carry any ID.

In Ohio, apart from specified activities, such as driving and carrying a CONCEALED firearm, you need no ID at all. That includes open carrying a handgun, and there are people here who open carry "sterile" with no ID. 100% legal.

 

[Deanimator]

Truth be told, my relatives in Chiraq are every bit as ignorant about U.S. gun laws as any Brit, Australian or continental European I've ever talked to. At various times, they've:

• asked me if my guns were "registered".
• asked me (without a hint of irony) whether Ohio was so dangerous I needed to carry a gun.
• asked me why I need a gun when the police (whom they HATE) are there to "protect" me.

There's ignorance and then there's WILLFUL ignorance.

 

[3GunEric]

I lived in Europe for five years. Went from Spain to USSR. The males there were weak and unwilling to really stand firm on any opinion - except to be critical of their own culture. They did respect us - Americans in the US Army. It was like we were still real free citizens while they were small members of a collective. They loved our "can do" attitude and our willingness to stand against the oppression of the East.

Gun ownership is the most pronounced issue that makes us stand apart from them because we still trust ourselves and our fellow citizens. They no longer have that trust and (like our liberal brothers here) place their hope in an overbearing government machine to be their nanny.

It is as simple as that. We are free citizens while they are subjects.