Europeans and Australians interest in USA gun ownership.

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stchman

stchman

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It seems that it is the "in" thing for Europeans and Australians to want to talk about USA gun ownership.

The USA's culture is different that European countries and Australia. Why on earth do they concern themselves with USA gun ownership. Are their countries such utopic paradises that they feel the need to "help" the USA?

Piers Morgan is a perfect example.

Here is a really dumb video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j198bMXYJvs
 
For what it's worth, many Britons I've spoken to gave their condolences when they found out Morgan was moving here. They don't want him back.
 
If they want the rights we have, legally move here and become a citizen.
If they don't like freedom, stay where they are.
 
I don't know but have you read the comments about his video many written by people who say they are Australian.

If that is any indication of their thoughts as a people in general it would seem that this clown and his fellow circus actors do not represent the true views of Australians on this matter.

I find the dishonesty very disturbing
 
Like any liberal, they are more interested in sticking their nose in other people's business. It just makes them feel superior. Does not matter if they are right or wrong. Liberals always think they know best.

And that is why they say what they say about US gun ownership.

Deaf
 
The video was produced by cracked.com, an American site.

Australia simply does not have the rebellious history of revolution to ingrain the concept of firearm ownership as an "inalienable right" - heck, *any* self defense tool is illegal in Australia - you literally cannot even own pepper spray any more. Might get used against the police. The country was formed from numerous penal colonies - since the late 1700s, the systems of government have been basically authoritarian in nature - it's becoming the ultimate nanny state. Think about it - a natural progression of government from penal oversight governors backed by British military that evolved into state governments that eventually federated - they have their roots in authoritarianism. That power culture just doesn't dissipate.

In NSW a law has just been passed that will force bicycle riders to carry their drivers license or other state-issued ID on them while riding a bicycle, so that police can positively identify you in the event you get pulled over while riding a bicycle for traffic infringements. You literally need to carry government ID while riding a bike. Sadly the "she'll be right" attitude of the Australian populace just means it happens relatively unopposed.

Kill an intruder in your home? Murder, no question. Case in NSW just this week - young father with young family, repeat offender breaks into the home at 3:30am, fight ensues, citizens arrest attempted, burglar stops breathing after police arrive, dies, the home owner is arrested, charged with murder and held with no bail. The burglar had *just* been released after successfully overturning his conviction on similar charges just weeks before because of improper admission of CCTV footage of him committing crimes as evidence.

But yeah, Australians aren't shy of sharing "holier than thou" opinions, especially when it comes to the US, or parts of Asia.

If you haven't worked it out I'm an Australian living in the US. My kids are a mix of "local and imported" ingredients :)
 
Last edited:
goldpelican said:
The video was produced by cracked.com, an American site.

Australia simply does not have the rebellious history of revolution to ingrain the concept of firearm ownership as an "inalienable right" - heck, *any* self defense tool is illegal in Australia - you literally cannot even own pepper spray any more. Might get used against the police. The country was formed from numerous penal colonies - since the late 1700s, the systems of government have been basically authoritarian in nature - it's becoming the ultimate nanny state. Think about it - a natural progression of government from penal oversight governors backed by British military that evolved into state governments that eventually federated - they have their roots in authoritarianism. That power culture just doesn't dissipate.

In NSW a law has just been passed that will force bicycle riders to carry their drivers license or other state-issued ID on them while riding a bicycle, so that police can positively identify you in the event you get pulled over while riding a bicycle for traffic infringements. You literally need to carry government ID while riding a bike. Sadly the "she'll be right" attitude of the Australian populace just means it happens relatively unopposed.

Kill an intruder in your home? Murder, no question. Case in NSW just this week - young father with young family, repeat offender breaks into the home at 3:30am, fight ensues, citizens arrest attempted, burglar stops breathing after police arrive, dies, the home owner is arrested, charged with murder and held with no bail. The burglar had *just* been released after successfully overturning his conviction on similar charges just weeks before because of improper admission of CCTV footage of him committing crimes as evidence.

But yeah, Australians aren't shy of sharing "holier than thou" opinions, especially when it comes to the US, or parts of Asia.

If you haven't worked it out I'm an Australian living in the US. My kids are a mix of "local and imported" ingredients :)
Click to expand...

Welcome. Glad to have you here.

Just wish we could send an anti-gunner or two back there to take your place......
 
Goldpelican - I agree with Deaf Smith in your "change of scenery". I still have an email buddy that lives near the Blue Mountains area. There was another that lived in Tamworth but we lost touch years ago.
I would love to go see Ularu (Ayre's Rock), The Reef, some "salties", Sydney, etc. If I were younger, I might even go "walkabout". With all the stuff that's going on now, I just don't know.
 
Haven't got the figures off the top of my head but it generally is a "safer" society - there's a lot of focus on things like combating domestic violence, reducing violence against women, suicide prevention etc that just don't even seem to be on the national agenda here in the US. The national dialog here (in my opinion) gets too hung up on emotive issues that will never reach a broad national consensus.

But do 2MPH over the limit and expect flashing blue lights in the mirror.

Based on my travels, Germany is a good example of a polite society that functions well without too much state interference - you can drink alcohol in public, take your dog in the train and I see almost as many deer stands next to the autobahns as wind farms. Whereas in Australia public consumption of alcohol is a social sin being outlawed everywhere because you can't trust a lot of young Aussies with a gut full of alcohol not to bash someone to death as a joke on the way to McDonalds. I think that's a downside of a nanny state - it creates a subliminal environment of overbearing oppression that you're not even really conscious of, but it's always there in the background like a blanket over your soul, and occasionally resistance will manifest. The political correctness is overbearing - people literally disassociate themselves from you if they find out you've got a hobby of firearms.
 
I don't think Europeans want to interfere and most of us don't have a superiority feeling, on the contrary, many people around here adore the USA.

What we do have is a leftisch group of people, socialist and enviromentalist that are very anti-arms.

They want the state to regulate whatever for you and they don't trust you as a citizen, so they want the state to have a monopoly on violence.
These people think they are intellectually superior (and they have a lot of the press in their group, European journalist often think of themselves as morally and intellectally superior- think Pierce Morgan).

These people use what they call 'the American situation' as an example of how gun freedom leeds to mass murder, in order to 'liberate' their fellow Europeans of their guns.
They don't care if they spread blatant lies, as long as it serves their purpose.

For instance, I never had a journalist make the distinction between different states. Last I wrote to one of our majour newspapers because they published a statistic in wich they compared the number of gun deaths to the number of legally kept firearms.
It was a text book example of how one can manipulate statistics.
Fist, they didn't corrct the data for suicides, second they didn't use al the countries in the world, just the ones that proved their point (no trace of Mexico, Brazil, or any country from africa or the middle east.)

But times they are changing, as people more and more see that our many governments are not able to protect their citizens. Memberships in shooting clubs grow year after year with 5 to 10 %
 
I'm a Scot who emigrated to the US in 2008 (And now a grateful gun owner). Some of the attitude has to do with being completely misinformed, and having been actively programmed against guns by society, and the media. The other side of it is people fear what they don't know, having never been exposed. I am a veterinarian and when we had a basic firearms safety class, most of the class who didn't have a farming and hence shotgun/rifle background were literally terrified when handling even a captive bolt or a single shot pistol. One student said, "It won't, just go off will it?".

The UK isn't any safer and while I've experienced violence in the US, I experienced more violence in the UK. In the UK I was interrogated by police as to why I kicked someone who slashed me with a knife once I'd knocked him on the ground. That was something that enraged me and a major factor in my decision to move to the US.

There is a heck of a lot of knife crime in the UK, with carrying anything but a folding 3.5" pocket knife being illegal, but as any of you can figure out, it doesn't stop the criminals.

There also often, just isn't a concept that you can't compare the UK, and the US (the UK not getting that the US can't be treated as a single entity), and they don't know what living in a (relatively) free society is like.

I did have some anti-gun ownership feelings when I lived in the UK (mainly lack of exposure and misunderstanding), but having lived in the US, and been able to take a hard look at what has happened in the UK, with its loss of freedoms, I understand why the 2nd amendment is essential and thank God for it, and am grateful to be living in the US, free to keep and bear arms and defend myself as well as is possible.
 
If you want to gauge the true feelings of what non Americans think about guns, just visit a full auto gun rental range in Vegas.

Fleets of full auto firearms getting 200,000 rounds a year thru them. And a lot of our own coasties, too.

I wouldn't put any credence into what their media or officials say about gun ownership any more than what we read or see in the news from an AWB state. The real trend? A complete and overwhelming reversal of statutes on concealed carry over the last 25 years is the actual track record in America. Actually study crime stats and we have less violent crime here than there - despite the Presidents egregious statements to the contrary.

More states lighten up on silencer ownership every year, and we've gone from none to nearly a dozen states with Constitutional concealed carry requiring NO permits or exams.

You bet they are watching us. We are doing and living exactly as the PEOPLE demand, which is something to be admired. If there is a real issue it's with business policy in the workplace, not government oppression as so many attempt to make out.

If we could get the tin foil brigade to reason instead of react, it would be even better.
 
Over on survivalistboards, there are several folks from England and Australia that regularly and enthusiastically stick their noses into our domestic,Constitutuional issues, particularly firearms ownership.
 
goldpelican said:
The video was produced by cracked.com, an American site.

Australia simply does not have the rebellious history of revolution to ingrain the concept of firearm ownership as an "inalienable right" - heck, *any* self defense tool is illegal in Australia - you literally cannot even own pepper spray any more. Might get used against the police. The country was formed from numerous penal colonies - since the late 1700s, the systems of government have been basically authoritarian in nature - it's becoming the ultimate nanny state. Think about it - a natural progression of government from penal oversight governors backed by British military that evolved into state governments that eventually federated - they have their roots in authoritarianism. That power culture just doesn't dissipate.

In NSW a law has just been passed that will force bicycle riders to carry their drivers license or other state-issued ID on them while riding a bicycle, so that police can positively identify you in the event you get pulled over while riding a bicycle for traffic infringements. You literally need to carry government ID while riding a bike. Sadly the "she'll be right" attitude of the Australian populace just means it happens relatively unopposed.

Kill an intruder in your home? Murder, no question. Case in NSW just this week - young father with young family, repeat offender breaks into the home at 3:30am, fight ensues, citizens arrest attempted, burglar stops breathing after police arrive, dies, the home owner is arrested, charged with murder and held with no bail. The burglar had *just* been released after successfully overturning his conviction on similar charges just weeks before because of improper admission of CCTV footage of him committing crimes as evidence.

But yeah, Australians aren't shy of sharing "holier than thou" opinions, especially when it comes to the US, or parts of Asia.

If you haven't worked it out I'm an Australian living in the US. My kids are a mix of "local and imported" ingredients :)
Click to expand...
Do you think that the police in the USA will let you go on your merry way without any identification if you were stopped for a moving violation?
 
the usa's constitutionally enumerated right to bear arms is unique in the world. i could give a rat's rear end what anyone else, domestic or especially foreign, thinks of how i choose to peaceably exercise any of my rights.
 
In my experience people who believe in limiting rights and freedoms have a character flaw I like to refer to as "Hitlerism". They believe the government should control it's populace, because it will keep them safe, when history has shown the exact opposite and that a populace should control its government to remain safe.

As one of the most free nations in the world, at least in some regards, we become a target to persecute as our leading by example threatens to undermine their totalitarianism in their own country.

Oppression and dictatorial mentalities ignore national boundaries.
 
In my experience people who believe in limiting rights and freedoms have a character flaw I like to refer to as "Hitlerism". They believe the government should control it's populace, because it will keep them safe, when history has shown the exact opposite and that a populace should control its government to remain safe.

As one of the most free nations in the world, at least in some regards, we become a target to persecute as our leading by example threatens to undermine their totalitarianism in their own country.

Oppression and dictatorial mentalities ignore national boundaries.
Click to expand...

It is actually called authoritarianism. I think roughly 30% of the population are authoritarians. Another 30% become authoritarian when in danger.

I dont think it is a character flaw as sometimes authoritarianism is what a society needs to survive. Same with sociopathy, altruism etc.
 
"I wouldn't put any credence into what their media or officials say about gun ownership...."

To a large extent, I agree. Another Australian turned U.S. Citizen here. On my occasional visits to Australia to visit family I commonly run into news reporters opining negatively on the "American gun culture", though for all intents & purposes, they are just parroting the left-wing pundits of the U.S. media.
From the age of fifteen (a little over forty years ago) I have been very active in the shooting sports, up to & including competing on national teams ( for Australia & the USA). While the general populace of Australia has a moderate to high level of negativity to gun ownership I have found that the shooting sports are very active & well attended. On my visits I routinely attend competitions, & if I lived there I could do virtually nothing else on a weekend if I wished, shooting almost dawn to dusk, so the sporting shooter is well catered for down there, though I'd be hard pressed to put up with all the nonsense they have to go through to maintain their gun ownership. On the other hand, the non-sporting aspects of gun ownership (eg. self protection) are virtually, if not completely, nonexistent.
When I was a teenager in the 1970s, I knew a handful of people who had concealed carry permits, mostly business men who could 'show a need', or those who knew the 'right people'. A friend of mine worked as a Clerk for the Post Office at that same time, & when he went on his daily errand to the bank to make a deposit his supervisor would reach into his desk drawer & hand him one of the Browning .32 autos that were kept there.....boy, are those days gone!
Another thing I notice when in Australia, is that they have very well stocked gun shops that carry pretty much a complete line of guns & shooting accessories, something I very rarely see here in the US where the shops (at least in the areas I've lived) tend to 'specialize', with most leaning towards self defence handguns, EBRs, etc., & very little in the way of reloading equipment or supplies.
 
"These people use what they call 'the American situation' as an example of how gun freedom leads to mass murder, in order to 'liberate' their fellow Europeans of their guns.
They don't care if they spread blatant lies, as long as it serves their purpose."

I can only speak for the UK, having grown up there (Emigrated to the US six yrs ago, when I was 28). For the most part, in the UK, outside of the government level, I don't think its that they are consciously spreading blatant lies, its just sheer ignorance based on lack of exposure. Most of the people in the UK have never even seen a gun, if they have its a single shot rifle or a shotgun, and they believe what they are told. Many would not know for example, the difference between a semi automatic rifle and a full auto. Where the problem lies is in their unwillingness to believe when corrected, and their false perception of what is reasonable for regulation and trust in the government/police. There's a reason that it takes 3 yrs minimum from entering the US to becoming a citizen, and that is the uniqueness in the world of the freedoms and culture.

As to distinguishing between different states, its probably because they don't understand the concept themselves, and are clueless about the US. About 18 yrs ago, the headlines in the UK were saying that US MacDonald's executives were contributing to the IRA (In sense of Irish Republican Army). The journalists had no idea of what an IRA was in the context of retirememt accounts and assumed from ignorance. While journalists would be aware of different states, without having lived in the US, they may well have no idea of how different, different states are. People in the UK tend to think of the US as a single entity, even though they understand there are different states, the concept of how different is not often grasped unless they've been to the US.

For the most part in the UK, from my experience of growing up there, I think its more a case of ignorance and emotively based opinions being spread based on a lack of understanding than deliberate spreading of lies. Ignorance does even more damage than lies, but what is worse is when they are unwilling to be corrected. Many have been essentially brainwashed into rejecting facts against what they've been taught.
 
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