Ever go on non gun political forums?

[jim in Anchorage]

I do, and inevitably after a shooting a gun control thread will pop up, usually started by a anti. Remember this is cross mix of posters interested in politics and guns are just one of the many topics.
I find 3 different types of posters on these threads:
The hysterical anti gunners who think the NRA is the devil and no American should own a gun. As you can imagine they never present facts or figures or their solution, just rant and rave "something must be done." I don't waste time on them.

The pro gun people who, unlike the above, present their case with logic and strong arguments, not emotion. I don't need to tell them anything.

The fence sitters that don't know what to think.

The last group are the ones that are important to us and the reason I started this thread. I always respond to them. I often think they would like a gun but are afraid of them [come on guys cut them some slack-not all of us where weaned on a .44]
So I always respond and gently push them into gun ownership. I always answer their concerns. Typical remarks "but I have kids in the house!" I provide links to bedside gun safes. "I don't know how to use a gun". I say "go done to your Gun store and sign up for a cc course." It may not tell them everything they need to know but it's a good start.

Anyway what I'm saying is we all should get off the gun boards occasionally and present our views to non gun owners.
The Internet gives us a wonderful opportunity to give our side.
I bet I have, just sitting at home converted 5-6 "I'm not sure about guns" people into "guns are cool!" people.
In fact I had a non gun owning poster PM me that not only did he take the CC class I recommended but paid for 1 hour time machine gun range time since he was there
Makes me feel good.

 

[Turftech1]

I have gotten into many discussions on various forums, and in real life, with both anti-RKBA people, and fence sitters, and while I'd like to think that it has helped, I have no doubt that what I have done which has helped more is introducing others to shooting. I have had the opportunity to teach well over 40 people basic gun safety, and basic shooting skills, then gone on to help many of them buy their first gun.

A few weeks ago, after the Umpqua community college shooting, I just posted on facebook that if any of my friends who had little or no experience with firearms wanted to learn gun safety and to learn how to shoot, I'd be happy to take them and supply the ammo.

Of course, I had several of my fellow firearm enthusiasts reply, trying to get me to pay for their ammo, but I also got 13 people who had never been shooting, but really wanted to learn. Most of them were women too. One was a minor, which I don't know super well, so nothing will happen there unless one of his parents want to come too, but I took the first "batch" of 3 out two Saturdays ago, and they had a blast. Two of them (including one who is from a fairly anti-gun country in Europe) are now looking for their first firearm. One, a middle aged housewife was DYNAMITE with handguns right from the start.

Here's a pic.


I am hoping to get one more "batch" in before Christmas.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I have gotten into many discussions on various forums, and in real life, with both anti-RKBA people, and fence sitters, and while I'd like to think that it has helped, I have no doubt that what I have done which has helped more is introducing others to shooting. I have had the opportunity to teach well over 40 people basic gun safety, and basic shooting skills, then gone on to help many of them buy their first gun.

A few weeks ago, after the Umpqua community college shooting, I just posted on facebook that if any of my friends who had little or no experience with firearms wanted to learn gun safety and to learn how to shoot, I'd be happy to take them and supply the ammo.

Of course, I had several of my fellow firearm enthusiasts reply, trying to get me to pay for their ammo, but I also got 13 people who had never been shooting, but really wanted to learn. Most of them were women too. One was a minor, which I don't know super well, so nothing will happen there unless one of his parents want to come too, but I took the first "batch" of 3 out two Saturdays ago, and they had a blast. Two of them (including one who is from a fairly anti-gun country in Europe) are now looking for their first firearm. One, a middle aged housewife was DYNAMITE with handguns right from the start.

Here's a pic.
View attachment 216697

I am hoping to get one more "batch" in before Christmas.

Excellent. This is exactly what I meant. Reach out to the "undecided" any way you can.
The "unsure" people go to our side when given logic.
Good job! I sure admire your efforts. Plus it sounds like fun!

 

[txblackout]

Here is one try on dailykos (liberal site)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...-nothing-to-curb-gun-violence-or-any-violence

It is interesting because many of the liberals (?) are willing to think about proposed ideas. One of the issues is that the right isnt proposing anything to solve the problem (that I have seen)

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THESE PROPOSALS?

You are an idiot
47%
21 votes
I think some of the ideas are ok, but most are not
16%
7 votes
I think many of the ideas would work
29%
13 votes
Great ideas, get your party on board
9%
4 votes

 

[hso]

Anyway what I'm saying is we all should get off the gun boards occasionally and present our views to non gun owners.
The Internet gives us a wonderful opportunity to give our side.

Outstanding!

We should prepare ourselves with solid facts and a calm and helpful attitude because we know we'll face some shrill opposition like we're seeing from Antis in the media now. We should also reach out to those in our circle of friends and family and associates showing we're open to talk and take them to target practice. Be prepared go slowly and gently here as well because some will have an emotional response that they've kept to themselves. Don't push, acknowledge their emotions and don't be dismissive. If we want respect we have to show respect for the person even if we can't respect the ignorance, fear and opinion.

 

[JFtheGR8]

I have helped female nursing staff get started in gun ownership. Being in Illinois there are steps to take that are simple but the average person isn't aware of such. I'll show them where to go to fill out the FOID application. I'll talk to them about what type of gun might fit their need and point them in the direction they need to go for CCW training. There's plenty of local female only training sessions around and that puts them at ease. I know at least three out of a dozen or so have proceeded with gun ownership and some training. My thought is that they'll share what they've learned and it will grow from there. My wife would probably not approve of me taking a bunch of women to the range though.

 

[DukeNukem]

I go on www.freerepublic.com but that political forum is probably as pro-gun as most of the gun forums.

 

[gspn]

Great post. If we fail to reach non-gun owners on the internet, and fail to counter the propaganda of anti-gunners on the internet...then we are missing a huge opportunity.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Following anti-gun groups on Twitter so I can intelligently refute their lies is about as close to online as I've gotten. The outright lies and deceit just got to be too much for me to take though.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I converted many fence-sitters, while I was working, into rabid RKBA defenders, the vast majority of them becoming gun-owners, one still not a gun-owner, and yet still one of the most steadfast supporters of RKBA I know. Since I retired, I don't know of any. You're right, I should address this, as we should never let any opportunity to teach those on the fence the benefits of gun ownership, along with the responsibilities that come with it.

 

[dranrab]

I am a moderator of the political forum on an adventure motorcycle riding forum. www.advrider.com. I tend to lean a little right of center. There are no fence sitters there. Most of the members are far left and absolutely toxic toward anyone who thinks differently.

 

[doctorjohn]

I am a road cyclist (bicycle). On the political forums on a couple of cycling sites, their heads are spinning with anti-gun rhetoric. There are a few fellow gun owners on these sites, and we make an effort, but the majority are FAR left.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Strangely enough I have found the best place to find political forums that are neither far right or far left [therefore have many fence sitters ] are the fan boards of the various NFL teams. All teams have one or two and most have political forums. So pick your favorite team and try.

I go to a Buffalo Bills site-
http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/forum/14-politics-polls-and-pundits/

 

[J-Bar]

I Googled "political forums", clicked on a couple.

Geez, they are crazier than the gun forums!

I will leave it to those with thicker skins than I have to participate on those websites.

Good Luck!

 

[barnbwt]

I've only found the same three groups on both sides;
-People who try to craft arguments (attempting thought)
-People who hurl bumper stickers or insults (avoiding thought)
-People who are unable to form an opinion (incapable of thought)

With the omnipresent information and arguments on clear display putting both the pro and anti arguments in stark relief (guess why we've steadily gained ground ever since the advent of internet forums & search tools ), the whole class of fence-sitters is dwindling to only the last set described above. It's a very short window between someone who is willing to form an opinion but doesn't have the information to, and someone who has made up their mind one way or the other. So short, that I think hardly any 'fence sitters' at any given time can be reached.

If you've gotten to the age where you're debating politics with grownups, and haven't made an opinion on something this basic, it's almost a given you're too lazy to do so when someone tries to give you the straight dope; you're just making conversation. Keep trying, since I guess odds-wise you're bound to get the ball rolling in somebody's head, eventually (a single trip to the gun range or helping someone build a gun are both far, far more effective than any internet banter, though)

TCB

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I've only found the same three groups on both sides;
-People who try to craft arguments (attempting thought)
-People who hurl bumper stickers or insults (avoiding thought)
-People who are unable to form an opinion (incapable of thought)

With the omnipresent information and arguments on clear display putting both the pro and anti arguments in stark relief (guess why we've steadily gained ground ever since the advent of internet forums & search tools ), the whole class of fence-sitters is dwindling to only the last set described above. It's a very short window between someone who is willing to form an opinion but doesn't have the information to, and someone who has made up their mind one way or the other. So short, that I think hardly any 'fence sitters' at any given time can be reached.

If you've gotten to the age where you're debating politics with grownups, and haven't made an opinion on something this basic, it's almost a given you're too lazy to do so when someone tries to give you the straight dope; you're just making conversation. Keep trying, since I guess odds-wise you're bound to get the ball rolling in somebody's head, eventually (a single trip to the gun range or helping someone build a gun are both far, far more effective than any internet banter, though)

TCB

Strange post. First you say the internet is why we've made advances then you dismiss it because all the fence sitters are gone? So the war is over?
I cannot take a anonymous poster on a internet fourm to the range. Or build a gun with them. I don't even know what state they live in. I can however offer personal advice on their gun concerns and try to answer any questions thay have.
And I've had some successes. I once talked a non shooter into[during "internet banter"] not only to shoot but reload.
I'm not saying the internet is the be all end all. It's just one of our tools.

 

[barnbwt]

I'm saying it is a decision people make for themselves, and that online debate is more fun than productive

 

[ilbob]

I have quite a few facebook "friends" who are pretty liberal as such things go these days. Many don't like the term liberal and prefer progressive for some reason. I can't tell a lick of spit difference.

Very few of them are ardent anti-gun people, mostly because they want guns to protect themselves from rogue cops and rampaging tea party members.

They have said almost nothing about the SB shootings, beyond the typical nonsense about Islam being a religion of peace. Religions are not inherently peaceful regardless of their teachings- people either are or are not, and use religion for their own purposes, good or bad.

 

[lionking]

citydata.com, you'll find a mixed set pf opinions, though when it comes to firearms most are pro by nature and that includes some left leaning people.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm a regular on cleveland.com.

A small group of us hammer the anti-gun cult MERCILESSLY.

We don't let any lie go unchallenged, nor allow them to set the terms of debate.

There's never been a time when they didn't come out on the losing end of the debate.

 

[longhair75]

I generally avoid discussing politics with anyone. Lately, political dialog is becoming increasingly mean spirited, and I have better things to do with my time. Rational discussion of the issues no longer seems to happen.

One of the things I like about reading here is the lack of nasty political jabs

 

[TruthTellers]

Not specifically political forums, but they have a political or off topic section. The overwhelming majority, 80% or so, are rabidly anti gun. A lot of them are Europeans, so that doesn't surprise me, but what does is they are flat out "no guns" I'm talking not even a single shot.

For the less extreme anti's, they want to make purchasing a gun a nearly impossible background check where not only do you have your records checked by police, but you go to doctors who try to determine that you're not a criminal or insane.

These people care about rights, as long as it's their "rights" that are being infringed. They think it's okay to smoke pot, they want it completely legal because they're not hurting anyone doing it. Well, so are the 99% of gun owners, they're not hurting anyone, but because there are people that do want to kill others, they want guns banned to try and control those people.

It's usually Millennials who believe that people should be equal in their treatment and their wealth. They're like zombies or The Terminator from the first movie, "You can't bargain with them, you can't reason with them. They don't feel pity or remorse if you're a gun owner, Christian, conservative, etc. and they absolutely will not stop, ever, until they have equality."

I don't bother with them much, they're a waste of time.

 

[barnbwt]

"They think it's okay to smoke pot, they want it completely legal because they're not hurting anyone doing it. Well, so are the 99% of gun owners, they're not hurting anyone, but because there are people that do want to kill others, they want guns banned to try and control those people."

The presence of drugs/narcotics in an environment (and all the carelessness and apathy they historically carry with them) are far more harmful than the presence of firearms at any rate in a society could ever be.

You do make an excellent point, though, about how a certain political ideology has been steadily seeking to replace legitimate human rights (speech, privacy, self defense) with newly invented ones that do not carry with them actual, real political power needed to stave off tyranny (living wage, gay marriage, abortion). Rights have never been about what people think they need or deserve (since people rarely know those things for themselves, let alone others), but what you need to keep yourself from becoming enslaved by evil power brokers.

"It's usually Millennials who believe that people should be equal in their treatment and their wealth."
The millennial set are also one of the most Libertarian groups for their age that we've ever had. I think it is mainly just that they've been exposed since an early age to more political thinking (among other things) because of modern media/internet than previous generations, and are more politically active than usually seen. And being young folks, tend to swerve wildly from one extreme to the other (whether it's anarchic libertarianism, outright communism, or even radical Islam) without guidance and experience from their elders, who too often look upon the younger set with disdain for having political beliefs before life experience (in a 'natural' setting, unexposed to political debate from every corner, I suspect it is the other way around)

TCB

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I'm saying it is a decision people make for themselves, and that online debate is more fun than productive

I have had experiences that suggest otherwise.
Also folks can we please keep this thread on track? I would like it to stay open.

 

[Deanimator]

I have had experiences that suggest otherwise.

Likewise.

On cleveland.com, we jump on the lies and misleading statements of the anti-gun cult and don't let them slide. We ask hard questions that even Fox doesn't ask.

To the best of my knowledge, my question to an anti-gun cultist on cleveland.com was the FIRST time I saw anybody ask, "If voter ID laws are racist, aren't gun owner ID laws even MORE racist, given the Jim Crow history of gun control?" That straight up reduced the cultist to momentary silence. In the end he was reduced to minimizing Jim Crow and telling the LIE that he'd never heard of "literacy" tests being used to suppress the Black vote. You can't tell me that outside of the Democratic Underground website, people don't notice such things.