Every rifle now a "weapons system"

[gpurp]

Maybe I've been watching too much History and Discovery channel but I've noticed they really like to toss those buzz words in when talking about military rifles. I even see "weapons systems" mentioned in the gun rags. So if we want to systemize any weapon having a lot of interdependent components including the ammo and operator then I guess trebuchets and battering rams would qualify as well.

 

[juk]

I guess it kinda makes sense. A person could consider a knife as a weapon and it is usually a single component. Weapon system sounds a bit more elaborate and appropriate that just 'weapon". In a weird way, I consider the older battle rifles as a weapon and the newer modular weapons as more of a weapons system. I guess it boils down to the modularity and parts interchangeability. Just my thoughts.

 

[JShirley]

Newer weapons that can be rapidly changed with longer barrels, trigger groups, optical sights and other aiming devices would indeed seem to be a system, while a weapon that requires hand fitting of components would not. A M4 can be changed to a SDM/SPR or a handgun in less time than it takes to describe.

 

[creeper1956]

I twitch a bit when I hear "weapons platform"... but then again, with some, the farklization of a weapon is more important than the weapon.

C

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

A system is a set of interacting or interdependent components forming an integrated whole.

If the system is a weapon, it's a weapons system.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Back when we had an M-1 and an M1A1 Submachine Gun and an M1 carbine.. we didn't have a weapons 'system'.

When your rifle and carbine share 90% parts interchangibility and have optics designed around the effective range of a given issued acrtridge... and GL's and silencers and etc that bolt on to either THEN you have a 'system'. Or at least a 'family.

 

[mshootnit]

I consider the rifle system to basically include the optics, specified ammunition, LRF, and ballistics calculator. The goal of the system components is to deliver the shot on target.

 

[happygeek]

Surprised no one has mentioned night vision; when you combine a soldier wearing night vision goggles with a M4 equipped with a AN/PEQ-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/PEQ-2) then you have a 'weapons system' IMHO.

Also things like M203s that make a M4 a 'weapons system' in the military sense but doesn't really carry over to a AR-15.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I personally have a disdain for describing something as a weapon system. I never hear that buzz word thrown around in any of the units I have served with and only by higher echelons of people who know less about their weapon than they should. Even when we work together nightvision, infared, and every bell that can fit on a P-rail, it still isn't called a system.

 

[justice06rr]

A system is a set of interacting or interdependent components forming an integrated whole.

If the system is a weapon, it's a weapons system.[/quote

I think that about sums it up there.

AR15's can be considered a "weapon systems" since it is comprised of many different parts that are interchangeable, even changing calibers.

Some pistols can be weapon systems too, if they have parts that can be swapped (Glocks. etc)

 

[Ignition Override]

When the WW2-vintage Enfield .303 (maybe present Uzbek/Afghan/Paki applications), M-1 Garand etc seriously injured or killed their human targets, were they not at least a major part of the overall weapons systems?

I've often read that effective systems require trained operators to be part of that system. Many civilians buy expensive gear for their ARs, AK clones, VZ-58s, maybe PTR-91 or even FALs, but are the shooters effective without the extra gear?

Maybe my impressions are wrong (so be it). Looking forward to responses, especially from some of you combat veterans.

 

[Ash]

weapon system is such a broad term it can mean the mount, software, and missile for the sidewinder. It can mean the magazine, loaders, turret, and guns for the 16"/50 on the USS Iowa. It can mean the entirety of the small arms carried by a soldier, because a handgun, bayonet, and M4 comprise a system of weapons. The weapon system, then, would be the entire combination.

It really just is the current catch phrase in vogue. In a decade, nobody will still use it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Systemization of the military? Gotta hate that, LOL. Everything has titles and classifications, even when referenced by the civilian world. If you read the specs on the systems platforms...

 

[EMS_92]

JShirley just about hit the nail on the head (Oh how I hate that term)

 

[meanmrmustard]

I'm kind of irked at the term "operator", as in "a weapon system and its operator."

 

[Hacker15E]

It gets worse! Some in the US Air Force think we are a 'human weapon system'!!

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123185785

 

[taliv]

Guys English is a living language and humans will always create new words and phrases for variety if nothing else. It's as bad or worse in business and politics. Go read a dilbert strip or two and chuckle about it if you want but it's not worth getting your blood pressure up

 

[stubbicatt]

Gag!

This whole "platform" or "weapons system" nomenclature does grate on my nerves a bit. For some reason, it just seems like something invented by the Xbox generation.

 

[Halal Pork]

I'm kind of irked at the term "operator", as in "a weapon system and its operator."

I'm with you.

To add fuel to the fire, I'll throw in abuse of the term "tactical" along with police officers referring to "civilians."

"The SWAT operator was equipped with a tactical carbine not available for sale to the civilian market, a highly effective weapons system in well-trained hands, any time he was required to serve a high risk warrant."

 

[mberoose]

Never heard anybody slap on a bayonet, scope, and caliber insert into a Mosin Nagant and call it a "system."

See signature.

 

[aka108]

If you lived in the late 1700's and some big old Red Coat came charging at you with a Brown Bess I bet you'd say he had a assault weapon, esp with that long bayonet.

 

[ATLDave]

Gag!

This whole "platform" or "weapons system" nomenclature does grate on my nerves a bit. For some reason, it just seems like something invented by the Xbox generation.

Now that's a false accusation; it goes back way before that, although people were generally applying it to things like guided missile cruisers or jet fighters or self-propelled artillery. If memory serves, it may even have come from the Rand corporation consultants that McNamara brought into the Pentagon.

 

[Shear_stress]

People who use terms like "weapon system" in the civilian world amuse me. Using jargon outside its original context is just a way to make simple things sound complicated, often in the hope that the jargon user will seem smarter or better informed.

The M4, as a concept, really is a weapon system with interchangeable components for different missions. But, an M4 can only be one thing at a time. An M4 is just a carbine and no more or less a system than any other mechanical device. Put another way, you can shoulder a weapon, but not a weapon system.

 

[06]

Just verbal embellishment by some salesman that caught on. IMO--it is just a rifle. To be specific it is an air cooled, gas/recoil operated, shoulder fired--etc. etc. They needed some buzz words to sell the poodle shooters.

 

[Driftertank]

Well, the way i tend to think of it, a rifle is a rifle. When it is modified with additional components designed to enhance it's effectiveness, it becomes a "weapon system." Although there remains a bit of the buzzword aspect to it.

Example: my PTR, fitted with an optic and firing specific ammunition to enable consistent hits at (relatively) long range, i might describe as a weapon system. My SKS, is just a rifle.

The buzzword aspect comes in when you consider that my 10/22 also has an optic to enhance it's effectiveness, but while i COULD describe it as a "weapon system," i've never been tempted to do so.