Stumbled across one of these used in a gun shop, in .25-06. Was not familiar with the Sub-MOA species of this rifle but the price was right and after some research I went back and bought it. Waiting on some bases and rings so I can shoot it. Anyone here with experience as to whether the sub-MOA models live up to the advertising about accuracy?
Experience with Weatherby Vanguard Sub-MOA
- Thread starter wgp
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gkdir
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You better believe it. The rifles are waaaay better than most shooters. I don't shoot 25.06, but would assume the cartridge is capable of sub-moa.
Well, we'll see. Hope so. My regular deer rifle is a Rem 700 Classic in .30-06, and it has always been a MOA or better shooter with my handloads. Like this Vanguard, I once picked up a mint Weatherby Mark V Accumark at a very good price, and while it was a beautiful rifle and a very good shooter it would not outshoot my 700, so I sold it to my son to keep it in the family. These are the things that make browsing through gun shops and shows rewarding.
GooseGestapo
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I've got a standard Vanguard in .257wby mag. With select ammo, it is sub-moa. However, it took glass bedding the reciever, and a Timney trigger to get it there.
Why are you "waiting" on bases and rings? It takes the same rings as a Remington M700. Bases and rings are less than $20 at Walmart ??????
My Vanguard wears a pair of Weaver bases and Simmon's rings as sold by Walmart. In the rings it wears a Nikon BuckMaster 3-9x scope also ala Walmart....... With a number of handloads and Weatherby/Hornady/Norma factory ammo it is "sub-moa".......
I've got a set of Leupold bases/rings, but can't justify taking the scope/mounts off to replace them..... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", keeps coming to mind.
Why are you "waiting" on bases and rings? It takes the same rings as a Remington M700. Bases and rings are less than $20 at Walmart ??????
My Vanguard wears a pair of Weaver bases and Simmon's rings as sold by Walmart. In the rings it wears a Nikon BuckMaster 3-9x scope also ala Walmart....... With a number of handloads and Weatherby/Hornady/Norma factory ammo it is "sub-moa".......
I've got a set of Leupold bases/rings, but can't justify taking the scope/mounts off to replace them..... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", keeps coming to mind.
I spoke to a Weatherby rep years ago about these rifles. His story was that they come off the same assembly process and receive their test fire. If it shoots sub-MOA there, it becomes a Sub-MOA version and gets the new floorplate and price-tag.
They have a cap on how many this can happen to so there are many standard Vanguards that would have qualified but came in after the cut-off.
They have a cap on how many this can happen to so there are many standard Vanguards that would have qualified but came in after the cut-off.
Re waiting on bases: I favor Leupold stuff and my checking says the one-piece Leupold base for the 700 will fit on the Vanguard but only 3 of the 4 holes line up on the Vanguard. I suspect 3 out of 4 is enough but I'd rather have all 4. In two-piece bases the order codes are different, telling me that they are not the same as the 700 bases. In any event, my local stores don't have Weatherby bases so, hey, I can wait a couple of days for Cabelas to send them to me. Rings are easy to get.
The story of what made a Sub-MOA different was that as the testing was done, the Sub-MOA rifles shot a group that measured at or under 3/4". This gave them a little buffer to allow other users who may not have the same setup to still shoot at or under 1" at 100 yards. The standard rifles are shown to all shoot 3 shots at 100 yards under 1.5". The funny side to this is that a standard Vanguard that doesn't overly care for the load tested could certianly be a sub-MOA shooter. Most reports on the Vanguard are that they have the potential to be a 1/2"-3/4" rifle at 100 yards, though some take a little tweaking and others a lot of tweaking. I would enjoy it as I would expect the rifle to be a good shooter.
wnycollector
Member
Since Howa makes the barreled actions for Weatherby Vanguards, you might want to try this yourself before you go out and drop $115 on one of these http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=552716
The Howa trigger is adjustable:
1. Make sure the weapon is unloaded and remove the barreled action from the stock.
2. There are three screws on the Howa trigger assembly, all three are RTV'd. Remove the RTV from the front and back screws.
3. The front screw is the return spring adjustment (Pull weight): Back this screw all the way out, then install to at MINIMUM 1.5 threads. This is the lowest trigger pull setting that is recomended by Howa. It will give you around 2.5 lbs. Re-RTV the screw.
4. The rear screw is for Sear engagement. Adjusting this screw in will give you a finer engagement and less creep (there is NO creep in my factory Howa trigger), adjusting it out will give you creep. RE-RTV the screw.
5. Reinstall the barreled action into the stock, place a stap cap (or
expended shell) into the chamber, cock the weapon and smake the rifle butt HARD a time or two to see if you have gone too light on the sear engagement. If you don't have any 'slap fire', your good to go.
jimmyraythomason
Member
FYI,the Leupold one piece base for the Remington 700,Howa/Vanguard only has 3 holes.
dho3
Member
Or lightly polish the sear face with 2000 grit sandpaper, takes 5 minutes at most and do the same checks. Vanguards, whether sub-moa or not are the best rifle buy on the market. Even the synthetic stock is a couple notches above the rest. I have built a couple customs from the barreled actions and the quality is better than most manufactures by far. The finish work is not up to the standards of the Mark V, but easily matches that most other major rifle makers. The receiver is cnc'ed from forged bar stock and it is essentially a Mauser action for all intent purposes. Beefy and strong, it is not a light weight. Howa as mentioned makes these actions and I would assume the barrels, but I am not sure. I know that the Mark V is assembled in California after being manufactured in Minnesota and I am not sure that is the case with the Vanguard. So, if you want a lesser expensive alternative to the already inexpensive Vanguard, go with the Howa. They may not have the accuracy guarantee, but believe me, they shoot just as well. I own a 270 winchester and 300 win. mag. and both are sub-moa. Both less than 350 dollars.
mccall mac
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My first THR post! As wny collector pointed out, these are Howa actions. I just purchased a Howa in 7mm-08, adjusted the trigger (Uncle did that), bought a box of Fusion shells. Using a sleeping bag rest, and in my snowshoes, shot a sub .45" 3 shot group at 100 yds. Can't wait to try some handload (and the snow to melt to stretch it out more).
dho3
Member
Congratulations on the purchase of a fine rifle in an exceptional caliber. It will provide you a lifetime and more of service. That is typical of the accuracy of the Howa 1500 action, whether purchased as a Howa or a Weatherby Vanguard.
Flatbush Harry
Member
BTW, if you reload, I'd recommend the 100 gr Sierra MatchKing bullets in .257 caliber. My loads, using CCR BR2 primers, the 100gr SMKs and IMR 4831 give me excellent accuracy, well under 1" @ 100 yds. off a Caldwell LeadSled. They'll be my Coyote Loads (I don't get quite as good accuracy with the 87gr VarmintKing, the 90gr GameKing or the 117 gr .
Good luck and good choice in your rifle (I've got a Rem 700 XHR) but I like the W'by line.
FH
PS-As I hope to use the .25-06 out to about 400 yds, I chose a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 scope for it. I've had good results with that optic on all my rifles, though I have 3-9x40s on all my other rifles. The next rifle will get a Zeiss Conquest as well. My preference in reticles is the RapidZ line.
Good luck and good choice in your rifle (I've got a Rem 700 XHR) but I like the W'by line.
FH
PS-As I hope to use the .25-06 out to about 400 yds, I chose a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 scope for it. I've had good results with that optic on all my rifles, though I have 3-9x40s on all my other rifles. The next rifle will get a Zeiss Conquest as well. My preference in reticles is the RapidZ line.
If you are considering a new Vanguard, wait a little bit. The new Vanguard 2 line is soon to be released and I have a feeling we will shortly see a price drop on the original Vanguard line as it is either moved to a lower price point or is discontinued. As is, there is only a $10 price difference between the two from the factory, so I would expect to see the Vanguard 2 priced around $410-$425. Could be interesting.
GooseGestapo
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NOTE: THE WEATHERBY TRIGGERS ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE HOWA.
Yes, the actions are the same (except for the bolt shroud). But the triggers on the Howa's are better.
The lowest I could get my Weatherby trigger was about 5lbs with a lot of creep. Enough that it caused some "snatched" shots on game. The Timney is a bit better, though not as good as I'd hoped. It'll do, though. Now, it's got a ~3lb pull with only a slightly perceptable creep.
I agree with the comment that they are the best available rifles/actions in their price range.
I've had similar "issues" with the Leupold bases. Even the Mauser M98 base from Leupold only has three screw holes. I've had one on an Interarms MkX since 1975. No issues except for the Leupold rings were so well polished that they would allow the scope to creep under recoil. I took some 220grit wet/dry sand paper too them and then cold blued them. They haven't allow the scope to slip even under the recoil of the .338/06 with 250gr bullets at 2,600fps since. Three screws are enough for a one-piece base. You'll see the same thing with the Remington M700 bases on a M700, depending on action lenght.
My Rem. M7 one piece base (short action) only has three screws. I have it on a .223. My M7 in 7mm08 wears the two piece bases.......
Yes, the actions are the same (except for the bolt shroud). But the triggers on the Howa's are better.
The lowest I could get my Weatherby trigger was about 5lbs with a lot of creep. Enough that it caused some "snatched" shots on game. The Timney is a bit better, though not as good as I'd hoped. It'll do, though. Now, it's got a ~3lb pull with only a slightly perceptable creep.
I agree with the comment that they are the best available rifles/actions in their price range.
I've had similar "issues" with the Leupold bases. Even the Mauser M98 base from Leupold only has three screw holes. I've had one on an Interarms MkX since 1975. No issues except for the Leupold rings were so well polished that they would allow the scope to creep under recoil. I took some 220grit wet/dry sand paper too them and then cold blued them. They haven't allow the scope to slip even under the recoil of the .338/06 with 250gr bullets at 2,600fps since. Three screws are enough for a one-piece base. You'll see the same thing with the Remington M700 bases on a M700, depending on action lenght.
My Rem. M7 one piece base (short action) only has three screws. I have it on a .223. My M7 in 7mm08 wears the two piece bases.......
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SwampWolf
Member
I recently bought a Weatherby Vanguard, chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum and, based on the stuff I've been reading on the internet, I expected a way less than satisfactory trigger pull. It turns out that I'm more than pleased with the stock pull and see no reason to tinker with it in the least little bit. Maybe I'm just a lucky "exception to the rule" but, if so, I'm a happy recipient of good fortune.
I purchased a Vanguard Sub-moa stainless in 270WSM a few years ago with a factory supplied test target displaying a three shot < .5inch grouping. However, the trigger was terrible and the amount of creep was almost unbelievable. I tried to rework the trigger to my satisfaction but was only marginally successful. I finally purchased a Timney trigger set to 2.5lbs that dropped right in place and I couldn't be happier with the smooth crisp break. Now, even I can reproduce the factory .5inch groupings.
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