"Extreme makeover" of an AR trigger

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iamkris

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WOW!!

I've never been enamored of the AR series becuase of "what I read". About 2 years ago I decided to buy one to see if what I was spouting matched reality...it didn't. Used in it's proper place, my little M4-gery has proved to be reliable, handy and accurate...

...except for the trigger. The stock DPMS trigger has been mushy, creepy and heavy. I tried lightly stoning the engagement surfaces...tried the 15-minute trigger job...tried changing the springs to a JP set...nothing worked.

I finally bucked up the dollars for a RRA NM 2-stage trigger ($75 dealer cost...thank you C&R 03 FFL!!). I swapped it out following the directions in under 10 minutes...a little of my M1 grease on the pins.

739000011.jpg


Holy crap...what a difference. The 2-stage trigger movement that I love...crisp letoff with no overtravel...about a 4 lb pull...absolutely incredible.

My AR will be shot a lot more now. Plus, I have a CZ 22 LR upper that will likely get used much more.

GREAT product!
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...96&title=AR-15+NATIONAL+MATCH+2-STAGE+TRIGGER
 
:) I did the same thing earlier this summer and my groups really improved. Not that I'm much of a shot, but there was noticeable difference. I want to swap out my last "standard" trigger for one of these when I get to the fall gunshows.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
Rock River 2 stage triggers are very nice. I had one on an Armalite/Bushy Target AR build I did a while back.

They were great for a target rifle, but for standard ARs I really like the standard trigger over the 2 stage. I just didn't like the pre-set pull one the 2 stage for faster targets.

Good Shooting
Red
 
Yup, the RRA NM 2-stage triggers are perhaps the best value going in competition triggers for the AR. All of my ARs presently have them, and they've all been modified to have 2 lb. pulls by trimming about half a coil off the disconnector spring.


DL
 
Careful, they're kinda like broadband internet. Dial-up is great until you try cable. Then you would rather watch cars rust than wait on a dial-up connection. A sweet trigger will make the standard variety seem pretty sour.

Yes, two stage is different, but most high-end smallbore target rifles are set up that way because of the control that it offers once you are accustomed to it.
 
A word of caution. Aftermarket match triggers are nice, but if you intend to use them on a duty weapon...don't. None of them are reliable enough to depend on.

If you're going to shoot hi-power, plink on the range, shoot varmints or play other gun games then they are fine.

If you are going to depend on your AR in a life support role, learn to use the stock trigger.

At Pat Rogers carbine course 1-3 July 05, I watched a rifle with a match trigger installed by the armorers at the Naval Weapons Facility at Crane Indiana go TU. This was supposedly the same trigger that was going into some of the SPRs.

Pat said he'd yet to see anyone's match trigger make it through a three day course.

Jeff
 
I have a Jewell trigger that has survived several carbine courses. That thing is a ROCK. Never had to adjust it neither.

I got a RRA for the new build just because of the cost (03 here as well). I'd like to try that McCormick block trigger, but not for $200!
 
A word of caution. Aftermarket match triggers are nice, but if you intend to use them on a duty weapon...don't. None of them are reliable enough to depend on.
Click to expand...

+1

the jewel trigger i have in my match AR failed on me on monday of CMP week at camp perry this year (last week). probably cost me a spot in the P100.

i sent it off to jewel earlier this week, and am waiting to hear from them before i post the ugly details.

i will say though, that while i was trying to get it fixed on commercial row, i was VERY surprised to hear how many problems the armorers up there had with jewels, and how they'd been replacing them with other triggers of late.

as i've said before here, I'm extremely surprised that clint smith, who is renown for "no frills" so much that he gives people grief over red dots on their ARs... puts jewel triggers on his les baer "thunder ranch" ARs. *** is he thinking? I don't know.
 
hmm... I'm currently building a Match Grade AR, (for my wife) planning to get a Jewel trigger, even found a shop in Communist Cali that would order one for me.

This is news on the Jewel and the first time I've ever heard anyone have a problem with one. How many rounds had the trigger been used for when it failed ?

it isn't a simple trigger, compared to a standard one, but it's what the little woman wants. I'll post a pic for those who haven't seen the set up.

Jewell%20layout.jpg
 
Jeff White, can you tell us why these two-stage match triggers are failing? :cuss:

Especially Rock Rivers, if you know of any. I'm seriously considering one for my old Colt SP1 CAR-15...that $75 dealer's cost is very attractive!
 
I have a White Oak Precision tuned RRA 2 stage trigger in my match service rifle. I have had zero problems with it and know it would make it through any match I chose to shoot it in. You can get a WOP tuned trigger from WOP for about $100.00. Or if you have one aready send it to WOP with $35.00 and it will get tuned. $5.00 of the $35.00 is for shipping back to you. More and more shooters are finding out the expensive triggers are not standing up to the rigors of High Power and are going with the RRA.
 
TooTaxed,
I've seen set screws that were locktited in come lossen and fall out, I've seen parts break and lock the trigger up, I've seen dirt and particles of carbon get inthe works and jam them.

You have to remember that some intense training was occuring when I've seen them fail. Figure 1400 rounds over three days, most of it fired in hammers or controlled pairs, a lot of movement, varied positions etc.

Match triggers are just fine, for the match. If you're a soldier or police officer or a private citizen and your AR is your primary defensive weapon, you should probably forgo the match trigger because you need a rifle that is as reliable as possible.

If the primary use of the weapon is gaming of any kind, then you can benefit from the better trigger pull because a broken trigger is an inconvenience.

Artherd,
I know nothing about the JP trigger. Personally, I wouldn't have anyone's match trigger on a defensive AR.

Jeff
 
I wouldn't lump ALL aftermarket triggers into that group. I have Accuracy Speaks single-stage triggers on both my carbine-length AR's, and while they are a bear to fit in your rifle and I have cussed both of mine out during installation, they are as rock solid as any standard OEM trigger - no set screws, nothing that will have a tendency to break anymore so than the factory trigger. I have never heard of a AS trigger failing. The final product is night and day too - 4.5 lb trigger that is absolutely crisp.
 
That was the same question I had about the RRM NM . .there aren't any set screws on it that I can see. If anything it's less complex than the existing trigger group. ??

Regards,
Dave
 
KC&97TA
This is news on the Jewel and the first time I've ever heard anyone have a problem with one. How many rounds had the trigger been used for when it failed ?
Click to expand...

~2500, about 1500 of that in NRA/CMP high power matches.

what surprised me though was hearing consistent bad things from all the gunsmiths up at Perry. i've heard of jewels failing before (mostly screws coming out), but i'd always thought they had an excellent reputation. i guess not.
 
Yep, once you shoot an AR with the RRA NM trigger you can never go back. I put one in each of my 3 AR's.
 
Pat said he'd yet to see anyone's match trigger make it through a three day course.
Click to expand...

2 of my rifles made it through his 3-day course with RRA match triggers.

Remember this when reading Pat's highly biased opinions. He knows alot, but not everything.
 
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