FAL Help?

[Robert]

Unless you are planning on spending a lot of money or a transferrable FAL, the SA/FA issues are moot and academic at best.

My FAL started life as an Argentinian parts kit. I bought a DSA Type 1 receiver and had a friend, at the time, assemble it as a gunsmithing school project. It has worked flawlessly and is far more accurate than the internet says it should be. While it is never going to be a match grade rifle, it was never intended to be. If you want a match grade rifle, buy something else. If you want a rifle that is dead simple to run and will eat any ammo you might have on hand with field grade accuracy, the get a FAL.

I've never had issue with any DSA parts, but some have, such is life. I'd love to swap my stock over to their adjustable stocks, but that requires switching to a para bcg, top cover, and some other bits.

 

[Telekinesis]

The FAL is one of the few guns I regret selling, and it’s definitely on my list of guns to eventually get a replacement for. I think as far as the classic battle rifles go, the FAL is the one to get. A modern AR10 is going to be superior in a lot of ways (accuracy, availability of gun and parts, adding optics and accessories) but it’s not going to give you the same feel as a classic battle rifle.

The rifle I had was an Enterprise kit build along the lines of a classic rifle and worked well. Fixed stock, original sights, 21” barrel, etc. I never shot a group with it so I can’t say with certainty how accurate it was, but I’d say somewhere in the 2-4 MOA range. It was great for shooting plates out to a few hundred yards (and probably further but I never got that chance). A good example of a “combat accurate” rifle.

These days, I’d probably go with a DSA rifle because it’s really the only game in town for a new FAL. While there’s nothing wrong with the original configuration, my preference would be for a folding stock and a 18” barrel (the 21” barrel plus flash hider is pretty long in my opinion). I’d also get a railed top cover so I could add a LPVO on it to take advantage of the extra range available when shooting a .308. If you’re ok with battlefield accuracy and not match accuracy (similar to being ok with an AK’s accuracy) you’ll be happy with a FAL.

The gunsmith who built my FAL also drilled and tapped the rear sight and used these AR15 NM aperatures. Worked great

That’s a pretty cool way to add different aperatures to the FAL sight! I’ll have to remember that. Thanks for showing!

 

[Robert]

The best scope mount, if you need one, is the ARMS #3. They make for both fixed and para. Don't talk to me about the Extreme Duty mount, etc.

How is the ARMS better, is it just that it slides in like the original dust cover? I have the DSA mount and it is indeed rock solid, and it's not that hard to tighten some screws.

 

[BreechFace]

Personal taste, but the FAL is the quintessential battle rifle as far as looks go, they are sweet. I would attribute accuracy of the FAL to be similar to the AK47 as @Telekinesis said.

I think one can expect 2.5-3.5" groups from most surplus.

Personally, there is a lot that can be improved by a good gunsmith or know-how on parts fitment (headspacing, bolt, etc), barrel quality, crown, trigger, gas adjustment, and accuracy can be improved with hand loading for them. This is why I suggested early in this thread to find a reputable FAL gunsmith and talk through the process with them and what your desires are. My gunsafe is too small to buy an off the shelf bullet hose (not to say one cannot get a good DSA, they would be my "commercial choice"), I would rather save the pennies and the slot in my safe for a quality piece that is a joy to shoot and with good results.


Here's a good example of the practical accuracy from a great irons shooter. Pretty good showing with irons.

 

[shoobe01]

How is the ARMS better, is it just that it slides in like the original dust cover? I have the DSA mount and it is indeed rock solid, and it's not that hard to tighten some screws.

Yes, it has sheet steel rails, slides on like the original cover. Very tightly also. No retaining screws etc. In Para mode, you can split the receiver and the cover won't move under spring tension!

Generally: Crazy light. Looks like a top cover at a glance, so that's nice. Near zero profile change, so it doesn't bump into stuff, wear at you when slung, bang up your knuckles charging the gun, etc. It somehow just works. I don't if I can avoid it, but in the past I have removed and replaced with no perceptible change in POI. Somehow. I know a few with them, and they all seem to work perfectly.

I know a few happy with their Extreme mounts, but I've also seen screws fall out (anything that relies on screws must be assembled right) and seen one properly tightened wander, and some other QC issues. They may have worked them out though. Still to me enough cases of overbuilt/underperform.

 

[Sfogaz]

I have a nice early DSA and 2 Springfield SAR4800. I would definitely go with Springfield all the way. They were built in Brazil by Imbel on original factory tooling. Very close to the original Belgian FAL at a fraction of the price. They are top quality factory builds and can be had for great prices if you keep watching.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I bought my SAR-48 Match from Bill Goodman's Gun & Knife show in Detroit, when they were popular, back in the 80s. Superbly accurate for a FAL, I had for years yearned to scope it to see what it was actually capable of. It's good for 2 inch groups from nearly all surplus I've tried, the better stuff inside an inch and a half. Had several 1 inch groups while shooting better.308 loads. If you could find one of these, I'd recommend it, but most are quite expen$ive now. Not nearly as accurate as my AR-10, but the fun factor is as high or higher.

 

[Robert]

I have a nice early DSA and 2 Springfield SAR4800. I would definitely go with Springfield all the way. They were built in Brazil by Imbel on original factory tooling. Very close to the original Belgian FAL at a fraction of the price. They are top quality factory builds and can be had for great prices if you keep watching.

What's a great price? I'm seeing them for almost $3-$4k.

Imbel receivers are no longer imported and are in high demand. I did a quick check of Gun Broker and could not find one. There is a barreled action, but it's was bidding at $350 or so.

 

[wiscoaster]

Just got an email from Atlantic Firearms advertising they have DSA SA58 carbine-length rifles in stock.

 

[ECVMatt]

First of all let me start by stating that I have always loved the FAL. When I was a kid, I used to watch a movie called, "The Odd, Angry Shot". It was about Australia's involvement in Vietnam. It was a mix between a comedy and a war movie, but for me the FAL was the star.

Having said that, I recently went through the process of trying to find a .308 semi-auto and just chose one today. I started with an AR pattern rifle, but ended up letting the store owner sell it to another customer who needed it for a specific hunt. Then I moved back to the FAL, M1A, and G3 pattern rifles.

The FAL tugs at the heartstrings, but they seem finicky and priced at the top of the pile. The M1A just doesn't appeal to me even though I love the M1 Garand and Mini-14. Go figure that one. That led me towards the G3.

I had a chance to shoot a friends PTR 91 and it was a fun and reasonable accurate rifle. He has done some internal modification to make it shoot a bit softer but other than that it is straight from the factory. He has about 1500 rounds through it with no problems.

Anyways my local store got in a bunch of FAL's and PTR's so I went to check them out. The FAL's were definitely finished better, but end the end I went for the PTR. I like all of the parts that are available and seem to be more or less drop in. I am trying to stay away from the collapsible stock I just found, but will probably add some small parts here and there. Magazines are super cheap as well and you can buy them by the crate. I really like the wood replacement stocks and they do give the rifle that old school cold war look. I am sure when I am done, I will have spent as much as the FAL, but I can do all the upgrades myself on a plug and play basis.

So sorry if I thread drifted a bit, but I have been in a similar 308 mode for a while and thought this might help.

Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

[CapnMac]

Whenever a Argentinean rifle was available, it was immediately taken in place of the British version.

That's long been proven to be "cnn reporting."
Quite literally by actual vets from both sides.
In military service, you sign for a rifle, and you do not accidentally memorize the serial number.
You are on the hook to return that exact number back, on demand, or have a very credible chain-of-events that shows hat happened to it.

Also, the photo above of the magazines is telling, too.
The "inch" magazines do not much fit well in "metric" FAL. While civilian, casual, shooters, can "run" metric mags in "inch" guns--that's also where any number of reliability issues begin, too. In a military setting, there's already enough issues with getting the lowest-bidder milspec to run reliably in rain, snow, drought, heat, and every other terrible aspect of military life to risk dubious materiel from the other side.

Now, in my perfect world, we'd be able to get Aussie L1A1--all the advantages of inch FALs with sand cuts and the like, and a decent rear sight. Sadly, the world is not perfect. The DSA carbines are very, very tempting.

 

[Gordon]

Yes on Imbel receivers , Yes on "as new" surplus Kits 25 years ago , Yes on Arizona response Systems build them.
My L1A1 built on Imbel receiver with an old steel Weaver I threw on 25 years ago for testing . Now this rifle has Wood Surplus furniture and the Old Weird Trilux SUIT scope on it . It takes Metric OR English pattern mags Trilux L2A2 SUIT :


My STG 58 "AS NEW " Austrian build on another Imbel receiver , takes metric mags Scoped with a 1.5-6x 50 with German #4 pickets , little ergo tweaks and parts . I actually used to walk ranches with this with the single point and a son working the spotlight for hog suppression because they had infected Strawberry and lettuce fields The gun can nail a hog , off the bipod , as far as the light would reach out - 350-400 yards ! This gun is NOT clunky like the English one. Mark put a great trigger on it and it is like a sewing machine .

I and my son shoot .308 and 6.5 Cr Aero AR10s these days for that kind of rifle. I would not have any trouble going into battle with any on them including my erly M1A that Smith Enterprises worked over . The most BAR like is the FNFAL , at least the Bipod Heavy barrel version I fired . I have fired the M14 FA in Nam and it is not THAT bad , certainly no MAC 10 ! Never fired a FA Ar10 and I am sure never will

 

[Jerry M]

That's long been proven to be "cnn reporting."
Quite literally by actual vets from both sides.
In military service, you sign for a rifle, and you do not accidentally memorize the serial number.
You are on the hook to return that exact number back, on demand, or have a very credible chain-of-events that shows hat happened to it.

Also, the photo above of the magazines is telling, too.
The "inch" magazines do not much fit well in "metric" FAL. While civilian, casual, shooters, can "run" metric mags in "inch" guns--that's also where any number of reliability issues begin, too. In a military setting, there's already enough issues with getting the lowest-bidder milspec to run reliably in rain, snow, drought, heat, and every other terrible aspect of military life to risk dubious materiel from the other side.

Now, in my perfect world, we'd be able to get Aussie L1A1--all the advantages of inch FALs with sand cuts and the like, and a decent rear sight. Sadly, the world is not perfect. The DSA carbines are very, very tempting.

The English lost 2 destroyers , 2 frigates, and appropriately 30 aircraft. I'm thinking that turning in 'x' firearm instead of 'y' firearm would not been that big a deal for a combat veteran. But I've never been in the military or combat.

 

[jonnyc]

When faced with the same desire, I tried my friend's FAL but ended up with a G3 and a MAS 49/56 in 7.62. I still prefer both in side-by-side range time with that same FAL.

 

[redcon1]

The time comes in every man’s life where he considers purchasing a semi-automatic 7.62x51mm battle rifle. Doesn’t it? Well for me, I am seriously considering the purchase of an FN FAL.

View attachment 1046068

But I am not so sure about the models available in the U.S. right now. Does anyone still even make FALs? Are they worth buying if so? If not, what’s a good used model I should hunt for? I’m looking for a basic military model and not some modern short barrel tacticool affair.

Thanks guys!

I have an older DSA FAL with the Badger barrel and muzzle break that I believe was born during the Clinton AWB. It's one rifle that I probably wouldn't get rid of even though my AR10s outshoot it. It's just freaking cool. Mine came with a badger barrel as I said and shoots pretty good. It seems like it was shooting about 1 MOA maybe 1.25 MOA for a while and I thought I had won some kind of FN FAL lottery but then I took the scope off and put it back on and the next thing I knew, it was shooting more like a typical FN FAL and I haven't messed with it much since then though I really should. I feel like this post would be incomplete without a picture. and since it's gun porn, I threw a scope on it. That's not the scope I had on it when it was shooting 1" groups though. I was using an older Nikon monarch tactical scope then and reloads. I guess it's not exactly light but it feels really good in the hands, like you could carry it all day.

 

[shuvelrider]

For what it's worth, my STG-58 on an Enterprise receiver, a kit build that was done by my local gunshop guy years ago. That is an Alcan Spectre scope I brought home from Afghanistan, a flip 4X that works well on this rifle. Was able to shoot the deer two years ago with it, resting on a post at around 170 yards. This rifle has worked well for me over the years, a pleasure to shoot.

 

[GBExpat]

Trilux L2A2 SUIT :

Very nice!

As I recall, the MFR plate on my SUIT is done in Hebrew. For years it resided in the north gunsafe but lost its spot several years ago when I reconfigured the upper portion of that FortKnox to accommodate my de-articulated assemblies (into Uppers & Lowers) AR15 collection.

I will add a pic when I find it current location.

[thinking aloud] "Hmmm ... now where would GBExpat put something like that?"

======[ original post 24Dec21 & image added 28Dec21 ]======

 

[DustyGmt]

My uncle has a DSA, I've shot it a few times. It's nice but I much, much prefer the MIA as a 7.62 battle rifle, and since I got rid of my scout squad if I was going to go back to 7.62 I'd go with an AR10. All that said, the DSA is a very high quality battle rifle, it will get down to business for sure. Just hate the handling characteristics and it's a very unbalanced, top heavy feeling rifle. His is NP3 coated and I think he ended up waiting like 2.5 years just to get it after he ordered it. It's a beast though.

Pay no mind to the optic being mounted so far back.....

 

[Hookeye]

The old DSA forged receivers were supposedly their best effort.
Have shot the cheaper newer versions of DSA and they run.

Shot 4" groups at 200 yards off elbows w an Argy years ago. Reg sights.
But lighting was perfect that day.

Much prefer DSA A2 rear. Front sights are thick, could use thinning IMHO.
Have no bias against a Frankengun.

Depends on who built it with what parts.
Most Ive seen are home builds w well worn parts. No thanks.

 

[czhen]

You were advice very well above my post. Gun Plumber is honest, fair busy and gunsmith (he won't sweet your pild. is a yes or no guy) if you are handy buy his guide/book plenty of info need down the road of a FAL.
Kits from Brazil are good to go, Argentinean too, Belgics of course.
About mags just try to find west German its the only experience I have with.
I have no info on polymer or US made mags.
Fal's worked well with no hicups under severe cold weather on both sides on 150 and 350 meters on several confrontations.
FAL Forum can be your friend.
Sadly, my son took it from me


Argentina lost around 100 aircrafts (between planes and choppers)
British sent 14 merchant vessels to South Atlantic followed by 38 war ships, only 5 reach the islands, of 9 left 4 were down by submarine, fast boats in the great majority by the Argentinean Air force (they lost around 25% of the ships).
Note aside some people said the aircraft carrier Invincible was hit but not sunk (returned many months later after new paint).
Pilot who shot the Exocet said saw a big ship on the radar (but wasn't the Invincible, it shot the Conveyor which is long as the carrier just few miles forward).

 

[briansmithwins]

When I was making the same decision about military pattern 762 NATO rifles I went with a PTR in the end.
1) Price was cheaper.
2) Spare parts were more available.
3) Ergonomics were acceptable, for me anyway.
4) I did the model with a chunk of picatinny rail welded to the top of the receiver so optics are easy to mount.
5) I don't reload so mangled brass doesn't bother me.

I really wanted a FAL but it just didn’t make sense for me at the time.

BSW

 

[czhen]

PTR's are a good option on 7.62 cal, the picatinny rail was a great idea. Placing the FAL nostalgic aside the PTR's mags are, lighter, cheap and easy to get, with good glass very few battle rifles touch their tale.

 

[Gordon]

Actually I campaigned on the early rifle IPSC circuit an HK91 tweaked by Willams on the trigger. In earlier 80s . Then I went to Gunsite Orange 7.62 rifle and was sold the M1a was the hot set up and bought an early example from a guy there.and continued with the M1a testing It went to Smith Enterprises for a a "match " job in later 80s which certainly made it more accurate but took several thousand rounds after that to loosen it to "battle rifle" standards of field function (early 90s ) . During that time I went to Remington Bolt guns in both .308 and 5.56 that took military detachable magazines until was frowned on "gaming " the Game !

 

[hso]

Does anyone still even make FALs?

https://www.dsarms.com/c-936-ds-arms-sa58-fal-rifles.aspx

 

[czhen]

Early DSA Fal rifles were made with originals parts when they bought machinery and spare parts. STG58 were and are a beauty to behold. Early Argentinean were great I may be wrong but a few FA were imported.