lobo9er
Member
i'm leaning towards a Fal. i really like the the fal design and have a bit of an understanding of the Fal. G3's have a solid history also i'm just not savvy to the g3, handled one once in my life. any thoughts would be great
Fal or g3
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Z-Michigan
Member
I'd get the FAL. Germany wanted the FAL but FN wouldn't grant them a license, which is why they ended up making a modified CETME (which was itself engineered by Germans who had moved to Spain after WWII). The FAL will be softer shooting and more fun to shoot. I find its ergonomics better all around. The main benefits of a G3 (really you're probably looking at a PTR-91 for quality at a reasonable price) are dirt cheap magazines and, uh, ummm... dirt cheap magazines. This is just my opinion, of course.
FAL all the way. I love mine, the ergonomics are awesome, especially if you add the SAW grip and the extended safety from DSA. FALs will eat just about any ammo you feed it and keep running. Mine does not have the sand cuts on the bolt carrier but I have not noticed any issues when shooting in dusty environments. The FAL will never win in the super accurate category but I am confident enough with mine that I can hit what I am aiming at out to 300m with irons. I do not have much experience with the G3 or the clones there of, but I have not been impressed with the few that I have handled. Mags can still be found for under $20 for used if you do enough looking. They have gone up in price but they can still be had easily enough.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
LOL Nice.
You just asked one of the top 5 religious questions on THR
There are plenty of reasons to get either one, you just have to think about what you are looking for.
From the financial side the G3/PTR wins hands down. Under $1000 for the rifle, magazines 3 bucks each.
FAL is gonna be double that or close to it, and 15 or more for magazines.
Ergonomics on the FAL are generally seen as better.
If you reload, the G3 will beat up your brass pretty bad so you will want to add a $60 port buffer to cushion the blow to the brass.
Adjustable gas on the FAL is nice if you shoot lots of different brands/loads of ammo.
The open sights on the G3 are not the greatest in my opinion. FAL wins a little there.
Both have trigger pulls that can be anywhere from horrible to nice but both can be fixed by folks like Bill Springfield for $50 or so.
Eventually you will want both
You just asked one of the top 5 religious questions on THR
There are plenty of reasons to get either one, you just have to think about what you are looking for.
From the financial side the G3/PTR wins hands down. Under $1000 for the rifle, magazines 3 bucks each.
FAL is gonna be double that or close to it, and 15 or more for magazines.
Ergonomics on the FAL are generally seen as better.
If you reload, the G3 will beat up your brass pretty bad so you will want to add a $60 port buffer to cushion the blow to the brass.
Adjustable gas on the FAL is nice if you shoot lots of different brands/loads of ammo.
The open sights on the G3 are not the greatest in my opinion. FAL wins a little there.
Both have trigger pulls that can be anywhere from horrible to nice but both can be fixed by folks like Bill Springfield for $50 or so.
Eventually you will want both
I think the complete opposite, the open sights on a HK G3(or even the English Enfield ones) are far superior to what I have seen on British L1A1s or the para FALs.
the sights are the biggest let down for me.
funny, you ask two different people the same thing and you get two completely different answers.
There is a very good article written on this that compares the main 3 battle rifles somewhere on the net.
M1A - G3 - FAL
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Very true. Plus I think a lot of my dislike for the G3 sights was caused by PTR. I had a horrible time getting a proper height front post. Finally wound up having to grind a little off by hand. I believe they welded the rear on a bit misaligned.
actually I think I shouldn't have answered as I'm talking from handling the originals rather than what you guys get in the US - DSA fals or PTR-91 I think they are called for the G3.
I wish I could get my hands on a new super match M1A easily over here
I wish I could get my hands on a new super match M1A easily over here
Deer Hunter
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1. Get the FAL. I LOVE my FAL. It's my favorite rifle.
But
What FAL do you have? My STG58 does a good 3-4 MOA with SA surplus and an easy 2 with cheap hunting ammo. What ammo are you using?
But
What FAL do you have? My STG58 does a good 3-4 MOA with SA surplus and an easy 2 with cheap hunting ammo. What ammo are you using?
Z-Michigan
Member
I'm going to quibble with this. Best PTR price I've seen lately is $960 or so at CDNN. Recently AIM Surplus had the DS Arms STG-58 (unused Austrian surplus parts) for $1099. Not a very big difference. Of course, the nicer FALs do cost more, but I've never heard a complaint about DSA's build of the STG-58 (some other companies have built those without the same quality level, or so I hear). Since the PTR91 includes a few HK surplus parts, I do think this is an apples-to-apples comparison.
I would like to know who still has FAL mags for $15 though!
Will Fennell
Member
Fal
You will be happy with the FAL.
You will be happy with the FAL.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Wow, that's a great price. I have never seen the DSA's that low.
I stand corrected.
As for the $15 FAL mags it's been a while since I bought any but that was the last price I paid. Sounds like it's gone up from your post. Yuk.
P.B.Walsh
Member
What's the difference in a FAL and a G3?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Day and night.
HKG3:
FN FAL:
Pretty much day and night difference function wise. One gas operated, the other basically blowback with a roller to delay unlocking.
Drastic differences in function.
Same basic role though.
Z-Michigan
Member
What's similar: they're both "battle rifles" in .308, used by Western countries but not the US, and superficially they look similar. Everything else is different.
bobotech
Member
Go for the FAL.
I just got a DSA FAL recently and love that rifle.
I just got a DSA FAL recently and love that rifle.
Well I have had both, but my super expensive DSA did not want to seem to cycle anything and I did not feel like trying to spend ages "fixing" a gun that cost $2,000. Anywho I will limit my observations.
What I like about the FAL
- better ergonomics
-better weight distribution. Although they seem about the same weight, the HK91 seems a bit more barrel heavy and when you add a bipod, just shouldering the thing for one mag because difficult.
-FAL breaks down for cleaning really easy, the gas piston is very easy to get out and clean ( its the same system used on my FN49), the reciever pivots up so you can extract the bolt and carrier without doing much.
- Fal can have better sites. My DSA came with very nice adjustable sites similar to that on the M16...some of the cheaper fals look to just have a simple peep site though.
-Changing mags seems alot smother as you just rock them in like an AK mag, and the release is nice.
What I did not like about the FAL
- can't commend on function much since thats where my problem was
- hated the placement of the bolt handle. It is not far enough forward to give you the leverage you need to open the bolt on a stuck case. I thought it looked like it was in a great place when I saw pictures of it, but in reality is was horrid. An AK or HK91 bolt handle give you much more leverage. It especially sucks for a right hander.
Now I have one of the early century HK91 clones ( which is very well made) and I would not part with it.
What I like:
-function wise its a very simple stamped design, very reliable
- it will eat any ammo I put into it, even the cheapest dirtiest russian ammo. Since I do not reload, It does not matter to me if the cases are dented.
- accuracy is just fine for me. I am at 300 meter shooter at the max ( bad eyes and such) so it will preform just fine at those ranges. Accuracy is better then an AK but its not going to win any competitions.
- Cheap mags, granted I only have 10, but if I wanted 100 it wouldn't be that expensive either.
- very modular. swapping out a new fire control group, new furniture, you name it, can be done very quickly. basically all you do is pop out one or two plugs ( which can be done without any tools) and your part comes off.
-lots of aftermarket parts
-cleaning is easy, not as easy as the FAL, but still pretty easy.
-decent sites, that drum sites take a bit of getting used to, but do work.
What I do not like
- as I said weight distrubtion can be a problem
-optic mounts are a problem for both guns. For the FAL you can get a rail, but they are not that cheap or easy to install from the looks of it. on the HK91 you can get the Claw mount which is easy to put on and take off, but they are not cheap either.
- recoil seems a tad bit harsher then the FAL.
Basically to me, its a M16 vs AK debate. The FAL is a bit more finely made, more milled pieces, a bit better accuracy, more bells. But it can also be quite a bit more money. Sure you can get the bare bones FAL parts kits for around $1000, but alot of them are of dubious quality. You are much more likely when buying a FAL to have problems, the you are with a HK91 clone. Lets not even get into the confusing metric vs inch variations of the different FAL clones. You can go buy a HK91 clone and know that its going to work. In the end though they are both great rifles and it comes down to personal preference. I can't say that either of them will do the job better then the other for their respective purpose.
However I am an AK guy (have lots of them) and I generally prefer the HK91 design over the FAL...doesn't mean I won't get both.
What I like about the FAL
- better ergonomics
-better weight distribution. Although they seem about the same weight, the HK91 seems a bit more barrel heavy and when you add a bipod, just shouldering the thing for one mag because difficult.
-FAL breaks down for cleaning really easy, the gas piston is very easy to get out and clean ( its the same system used on my FN49), the reciever pivots up so you can extract the bolt and carrier without doing much.
- Fal can have better sites. My DSA came with very nice adjustable sites similar to that on the M16...some of the cheaper fals look to just have a simple peep site though.
-Changing mags seems alot smother as you just rock them in like an AK mag, and the release is nice.
What I did not like about the FAL
- can't commend on function much since thats where my problem was
- hated the placement of the bolt handle. It is not far enough forward to give you the leverage you need to open the bolt on a stuck case. I thought it looked like it was in a great place when I saw pictures of it, but in reality is was horrid. An AK or HK91 bolt handle give you much more leverage. It especially sucks for a right hander.
Now I have one of the early century HK91 clones ( which is very well made) and I would not part with it.
What I like:
-function wise its a very simple stamped design, very reliable
- it will eat any ammo I put into it, even the cheapest dirtiest russian ammo. Since I do not reload, It does not matter to me if the cases are dented.
- accuracy is just fine for me. I am at 300 meter shooter at the max ( bad eyes and such) so it will preform just fine at those ranges. Accuracy is better then an AK but its not going to win any competitions.
- Cheap mags, granted I only have 10, but if I wanted 100 it wouldn't be that expensive either.
- very modular. swapping out a new fire control group, new furniture, you name it, can be done very quickly. basically all you do is pop out one or two plugs ( which can be done without any tools) and your part comes off.
-lots of aftermarket parts
-cleaning is easy, not as easy as the FAL, but still pretty easy.
-decent sites, that drum sites take a bit of getting used to, but do work.
What I do not like
- as I said weight distrubtion can be a problem
-optic mounts are a problem for both guns. For the FAL you can get a rail, but they are not that cheap or easy to install from the looks of it. on the HK91 you can get the Claw mount which is easy to put on and take off, but they are not cheap either.
- recoil seems a tad bit harsher then the FAL.
Basically to me, its a M16 vs AK debate. The FAL is a bit more finely made, more milled pieces, a bit better accuracy, more bells. But it can also be quite a bit more money. Sure you can get the bare bones FAL parts kits for around $1000, but alot of them are of dubious quality. You are much more likely when buying a FAL to have problems, the you are with a HK91 clone. Lets not even get into the confusing metric vs inch variations of the different FAL clones. You can go buy a HK91 clone and know that its going to work. In the end though they are both great rifles and it comes down to personal preference. I can't say that either of them will do the job better then the other for their respective purpose.
However I am an AK guy (have lots of them) and I generally prefer the HK91 design over the FAL...doesn't mean I won't get both.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The manual of arms for the FAL includes a move very much like jumping on a pogo stick
Well, you might guess by my screen name that I might be biased, but really, I'm not. They are both great guns and I own both. I would never sell my FAL and I would like another.
For me it comes down to the sights. The open V sight on the HK is really for full auto. The diopter sights where you have a circle in the rear that you align with the circle in the front and then put the front post on whatever you intend to hit, allow me to shoot HKs more accurately than any other rifle. No doubt.
For me it comes down to the sights. The open V sight on the HK is really for full auto. The diopter sights where you have a circle in the rear that you align with the circle in the front and then put the front post on whatever you intend to hit, allow me to shoot HKs more accurately than any other rifle. No doubt.
HardShell
Member
I have both and like both. If I could only keep one of the two, for me it would be the FAL.
That would have been my choice even before the advent RFB (which uses the same mags), but that has just reinforced my choice all the more.
(But don't go by me, I prefer an AR-based .308 to any of them... )
That would have been my choice even before the advent RFB (which uses the same mags), but that has just reinforced my choice all the more.
(But don't go by me, I prefer an AR-based .308 to any of them...
)Landpimp
Member
I am a HK nut......so must say the 91,or one of the best clones(which is not really a clone) the Greek made Ebo SAR3/8's.....they are just as good if not better than the german 91's
mags are $1 each
but what nice......its still a free country so we can chose one or the other or both
I have always like the FAL....but I guy has to pick something, I picked HK's S&W and Land Cruisers......others might be FN, Colt and Jeeps........I think I had a point but forgot what it was
mags are $1 each
but what nice......its still a free country so we can chose one or the other or both
I have always like the FAL....but I guy has to pick something, I picked HK's S&W and Land Cruisers......others might be FN, Colt and Jeeps........I think I had a point but forgot what it was
OP
OP
lobo9er
Member
handled a hk 91 semi today mag release was bit of a reach for me, that was the only real negative i picked up on for the moment i held it.
Z-Michigan
Member
IMHO, the main HK G3 features that do or don't work for different people are:
-charging handle location
-charging handle effort when fully locked forward (bolt slammed home)
-thumb safety reach
-front-heavy weight bias (hold it up for 30 seconds and see if it's OK for you)
-peep sights size and location
Some people are happy with all of these, some aren't. This is just my ergonomic checklist for you to make sure you'll like the gun after using it a bit.
-charging handle location
-charging handle effort when fully locked forward (bolt slammed home)
-thumb safety reach
-front-heavy weight bias (hold it up for 30 seconds and see if it's OK for you)
-peep sights size and location
Some people are happy with all of these, some aren't. This is just my ergonomic checklist for you to make sure you'll like the gun after using it a bit.
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