took my new to me fal to the range yesterday, i shot 6 rounds when case tore apart leaving most of it in the chamber. i only paid $600 for it so i was not expecting much for what i paid, i just thought it would be failure to feed issues. i cleaned the rifle before i went to the range so i know that wasn't the problem. i was shooting radway green nato surplus british ammo, which i had used in my m1a before. so i dont think it was the ammo. during the first 5rds. i had 2 failure to fully eject.(caught in the dust cover) so i pulled the bolt out & checked the extracter, checked to make sure it still moved with spring tension. which it did. im going to take it to my gunsmith this week, since i can't get the case out. i will also ask him to look it over & check the headspace. any other ideas as what this could be? it looks like british parts with a hesse reciever. lower reciever marked ue 58. it does not have the fold down charging knob though & it takes metric mags. i also need to ask him if it is 922 compliant. i hope he can get this running, as i did enjoy it before the broken case got stuck.
fal problem
- Thread starter jeepguy
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briansmithwins
Member
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That's the big problem right there. Hopefully you can pull the parts off it and have it built into a safe and reliable rifle.
BSW
Uncle Mike
Member
i
Did you get a Century rifle? If you did, I feel for ya! As Brian says, maybe you can cannibalize the parts off of it and build something better, the Hesse receiver is junk!
Did you get a Century rifle? If you did, I feel for ya! As Brian says, maybe you can cannibalize the parts off of it and build something better, the Hesse receiver is junk!
armarsh
Member
Too much gas will tear the rim from the case. Did you set the gas system?
it is not a century build so i have no idea who made it. as far as the gas goes i hadnt set it yet i was working to that end when i had the case break apart. i didnt know that case failure from too much gas was a possibility, i just thought it would afect fuction if to low or accuracy & recoil if to high. i have read alot of bad things about hesse receiviers espically on century builds, but from what i read it seems a good builder can overcome these flaws. my rifle seemed fine as far as the parts fuctioning with the receiver. i will let you guys know what my smith says about my receiver & his overall thoughts on the quality of the rifle. but for $600 i figured it would need some work. my next option would be $1100 dsa stg. may still go that way depending what he tells me. ps. thanks for the replys
briansmithwins
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Overgassed can tear the rim off, but the case breaking where the brass thins out is classic long headspace. BSW
caribou
Member
Could be bad headspace, look at your other ejects and measure them. 51 mm long.....Headspace is easily checked with a guage.
Over gassed and almost no primary extraction, same as an FN-49 and the SVT-40. A common problem in Tip locking bolts.
The Russians tryed to overcomethis with flutes in the chamber.
The Brittish issue Brass cased ammo and a chamber cleaning tool.
Try to clean and polish your chamber as well as dile down your gas regulator till it stops cycling, then turn it up till it does.
Over gassed and almost no primary extraction, same as an FN-49 and the SVT-40. A common problem in Tip locking bolts.
The Russians tryed to overcomethis with flutes in the chamber.
The Brittish issue Brass cased ammo and a chamber cleaning tool.
Try to clean and polish your chamber as well as dile down your gas regulator till it stops cycling, then turn it up till it does.
GBExpat
Member
I do not know if it is true, BUT, from what I have read, Hesse did not manufacture the "Hesse" FAL receivers but paid for their name to be applied to the product by a reputable MFR ... and, therefore, they are not a source of problems like the type(s?) of receiver that they DID actually manufacture (only the CETME receivers come to mind right now).
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I had a beautiful Stg.58 built on a Vulcan (Hesse by another name) receiver. Headspace was VERY bad (would close easily on a "Field" gauge) and the barrel was actually installed crooked by a degree or so and the iron sights wouldn't adjust far enough to compensate for it.
I'm told the guy I sold it to now has it properly built on a very nice DSA receiver.
There's a pithy saying in all of this somewhere to the effect that, "There are no bad FALs...just Hesse receivers."
I'm told the guy I sold it to now has it properly built on a very nice DSA receiver.
There's a pithy saying in all of this somewhere to the effect that, "There are no bad FALs...just Hesse receivers."
GBExpat
Member
What you have described could easily describe a rifle (poorly) built on the best Imbel receiver.
Your barrel being improperly timed is an installer issue, not a receiver issue, and it could have been corrected by removing & reinstalling the barrel assy.
Bad headspace on such a rifle is also an installer issue caused by the installation of a too-small locking shoulder ... remove the original locking shoulder, install the proper size and you would be good to go.
I own or have owned 6 FALs including German Army issue G3, Steyr 50.0, DSA (2), Imbel FAL, and (shudder) the notorious CAI-built FAL with Hesse receiver. Guess which one I shoot regularly?
My CAI is quite serviceable and runs great with SA R1M1 and several other brands of ammo. I am working on 1000 flawless rounds down range. In a recent trip I was spanking a 300 yard steel chicken without a miss with a 4 MOA Aimpoint.
ANY kit-build can have teething problems. All are fixable.
CAI/Hesse detractors...get over it.
To the OP, maybe headspace, or bad lot of RG. I would try some other ammo when you get it back.
My CAI is quite serviceable and runs great with SA R1M1 and several other brands of ammo. I am working on 1000 flawless rounds down range. In a recent trip I was spanking a 300 yard steel chicken without a miss with a 4 MOA Aimpoint.
ANY kit-build can have teething problems. All are fixable.
CAI/Hesse detractors...get over it.
To the OP, maybe headspace, or bad lot of RG. I would try some other ammo when you get it back.
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Sure, sure... maybe it's a question of bad builders choosing sub-par parts.
EDIT: I am told that this appears to be a dismissive and snarky reply. I did not mean such. I will try again.
Perhaps the issues (mine and others') stem from low-quality BUILDERS choosing the least expensive and/or low-quality (or perceived to be low-quality) receiver to build upon. Hope that makes my statements more palatable.
EDIT: I am told that this appears to be a dismissive and snarky reply. I did not mean such. I will try again.
Perhaps the issues (mine and others') stem from low-quality BUILDERS choosing the least expensive and/or low-quality (or perceived to be low-quality) receiver to build upon. Hope that makes my statements more palatable.
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Z-Michigan
Member
Headspace, gas setting, brass quality/age, and/or chamber roughness. A smith who knows FAL's will have it diagnosed in minutes.
If you want a nice FAL, the DSA STG-58 models are really nice, in a whole different class from anything less expensive. They are not 100% authentic since most or all are now using "inch" type bolts and carriers, but they are attractive, quality, reliable shooters, and resemble a true STG-58 in nearly all other respects.
If you want a nice FAL, the DSA STG-58 models are really nice, in a whole different class from anything less expensive. They are not 100% authentic since most or all are now using "inch" type bolts and carriers, but they are attractive, quality, reliable shooters, and resemble a true STG-58 in nearly all other respects.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That's exactly what happened with mine. I took it to a 'smith who is a die-hard "FAL-guy" and he showed me exactly what was wrong and how to fix it.
He made me an offer for the value of the parts kit which was pretty fair, and I sold it to him for more than I'd paid years ago.
In his humble opinion, that receiver wasn't worth rebuilding upon.
KodiakBeer
member
del;oihasmsa; swihw Oops - had to clean the nose coffee off the keyboard!
Hope you get it sorted out!
Would love to, but more bad builds are found, in my experience, on these receivers. More out of spec receivers are Hesse, Vulcan, or CAI than any others. But I guess I am just being a hater...
ClayinAR
Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2008
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- 139
There seem to be some really knowledgeable people here. My FAL on Century receiver, built by machinist. lot of work there. Runs good, very reliable.
But. The first round of any group prints about 5 in off about 1 oclock. Rest of group is about 2" in bull. Let it cool and it will do it again. Tried it with hand feeding one at a time, thru a magazine, all the same.
But. The first round of any group prints about 5 in off about 1 oclock. Rest of group is about 2" in bull. Let it cool and it will do it again. Tried it with hand feeding one at a time, thru a magazine, all the same.
W.E.G.
Member
I AM FAL MAN!
HAS HE LOST THE PIN
BUILD-ING FALS HE SHALL BEGIN
WILL IT CYLCLE AT ALL
HESSE RECEIVERS THEY WON'T RECALL
*** IS ALIVE OR DEAD
WILL IT EVER SLING SOME LEAD?
WHEN THE BOLT SLAMS SHUT
A PRODUCT OF THE FAL-KIT GLUT
HESSE RECEIVER MADE OF STEEL
MAGNAFLUXED WITH A MAGNETIC FIELD
A PROJECT TO "UNWIND"
FOR THE FUTURE OF MANKIND
MIGHT NEVER FUNCTION
HE JUST STARES AT THE WORLD
PLANNING HIS RANGE TRIP
THAT HE WILL SOON UNFURL
NOW THE TIME IS HERE
FOR FAL MAN TO SPREAD FEAR
*** GUN AT THE RANGE
THAT P.O.S. SURE LOOKS STRANGE
NOBODY WANTS IT
THEY JUST TURN THEIR HEADS
MIGHT BE A JUNKER
NOW HE HAS TO CONTEND
HEAVY BOOTS OF LEAD
POUNDS ON LOCKING SHOULDERS TIL HE SEES RED
GRINDING AS AS FAST AS HE CAN
FAL MAN LIVES AGAINNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
HAS HE LOST THE PIN
BUILD-ING FALS HE SHALL BEGIN
WILL IT CYLCLE AT ALL
HESSE RECEIVERS THEY WON'T RECALL
*** IS ALIVE OR DEAD
WILL IT EVER SLING SOME LEAD?
WHEN THE BOLT SLAMS SHUT
A PRODUCT OF THE FAL-KIT GLUT
HESSE RECEIVER MADE OF STEEL
MAGNAFLUXED WITH A MAGNETIC FIELD
A PROJECT TO "UNWIND"
FOR THE FUTURE OF MANKIND
MIGHT NEVER FUNCTION
HE JUST STARES AT THE WORLD
PLANNING HIS RANGE TRIP
THAT HE WILL SOON UNFURL
NOW THE TIME IS HERE
FOR FAL MAN TO SPREAD FEAR
*** GUN AT THE RANGE
THAT P.O.S. SURE LOOKS STRANGE
NOBODY WANTS IT
THEY JUST TURN THEIR HEADS
MIGHT BE A JUNKER
NOW HE HAS TO CONTEND
HEAVY BOOTS OF LEAD
POUNDS ON LOCKING SHOULDERS TIL HE SEES RED
GRINDING AS AS FAST AS HE CAN
FAL MAN LIVES AGAINNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
Z-Michigan
Member
Just a note - Century (CAI) has used several different receivers, and originally used IMBEL receivers imported from Brazil. As far as I can tell those are just as good as any other IMBEL receivers, which is top notch. After that stopped they used US and/or Canadian made cast receivers in at least two variations, and those are not as high quality or predictable. (From researching the FAL Files it appears that no one is sure the full details of the Canadian-marked receivers, although they might be IMBEL receivers marked as being Canadian. All the US-made receivers are definitely US-made, not IMBEL.)
HorseSoldier
Member
Nicely done.
hey guys wanted to give you the update. my smith called me the other day and said he removed the broken case & reamed the chamber. he said that he put 20 rounds downrange without any problems. i wanted to pick her up on sat. but he was not in. so i will pick her up this week. i might be able to get her out on friday & if i do i will let you know how she does. thanks agin for all the help.
Acera
Member
jeepguy, that is good news.
Did he check the headspace?? If no, I would ask for it before shooting it again. Reaming the chamber would do nothing for a rifle with excessive headspace issues, other than making it worse. A new, properly installed, locking shoulder would be the remedy.
Did he check the headspace?? If no, I would ask for it before shooting it again. Reaming the chamber would do nothing for a rifle with excessive headspace issues, other than making it worse. A new, properly installed, locking shoulder would be the remedy.
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