Fast on target or fast follow up? or Revo/Auto Thread

[jame]

This occurred to me today, and I really don't have a solid answer, although I do have an opinion.

I just purchased a Ruger Security Six 2 3/4", and I plan on carrying it. I'm accustomed to shooting revos, and I'm typically fast to target with them, especially Rugers for some reason. (Grip angle maybe?)

Up until now, I've been carrying a Sig 239 9mm. I'm slower to target, but my followup in much faster.

To be honest, if timed, I'd guess that I'm getting two shots off in generally the same amount of time. 1st shot faster with the Ruger, second shot faster with the Sig. As and added benefit, the Sig carries 2 additional round in the magazine, or 3 additional total rounds going 8 + 1.

So, in a civilian self defense CCW situation, which is better?

My opinion is that the first to strike has an advantage, and with the added power of the .357, the Ruger wins out. Some may argue otherwise.

Waddya think?

 

[P95Carry]

I tend to agree about first strike speed ... and placement, naturally.!! That is the shot that will immediately alter circumstances.

As to what works best .. ya know - I honestly think this is personal .... some will swear 1911 ... others .357 revo .... and most things in between!

I think I favor revo ..... but perhaps that too is simply because over many years I have a distinct edge in terms of practice and familiarity.

 

[Ala Dan]

Aw, first shot strike speed and placement = a .45 caliber
SIG-SAUER P220A.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[AC]

Learn to shoot your revolver DA and then do have someone time your splits. For years I would have sworn I could shoot an auto faster, there was all that shucking, clanking and things flying around. The timer showed I was actually a bit faster on repeat shots with the revolver.

Now as to which is better for concealed carry, nothing beats a J frame but if you choose to carry more gun then the autos are more compact and carry more ammo. Big advantages in my opinion.

 

[Ankeny]

This one looks like a no brainer unless I am missing something. If you get two hits in the same amount of time, but you get the first hit quicker with a more potent round out of a wheel gun, well that just seems like the logical choice.

OTOH, an automatic has an advantage after the first six rounds. Even though I choose to carry an auto over a wheelgun, truth is you better have things settled with six rounds. I just look at more rounds as an insurance policy that I hope I will never use.

 

[jc2]

Usually, the person who score the first good hit wins.

 

[cratz2]

Well, my initial instinct would be to say which ever I can draw from concealment and have a single solid hit with is what I'd carry... But for me, how well it carries and how likely I am to actually carry it are every bit as important and pure speed.

As far as number of rounds, I guess it's always best to plan for the worst case scenario, but by almost all counts, the overwhelming majority of 'good guy citizen shooting a bad guy citizen which he doesn't know' instances have five or less shots fired. The gun I carry (Kahr P9 Covert) holds 6+1 and it would be my primary carry if it only held 4+1. Capacity just isn't a pressing issue for me though I grew up with a solid 1911 mentality so for younger folks that grew up thinking about the Glock 17, I can see why capacity would be more of a consideration.

 

[ChickenHawk]

With regards to the original question asked, I would say that accuracy beats speed.

as jc2 pointed out, it's the first good hit that wins.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

 

[Shawn Dodson]

It's irrelevant, in my opinion. Why? It appears to me you're comparing square range performance and expecting it to apply to the real world.

 

[Ankeny]

So we shouldn't hit the range with a timer and expect our experiences to transfer to the street? Wow, that's really thinking outside the box (no pun intended).

 

[Shawn Dodson]

In this particular case, yes. It presumes that the conditions of a criminal attack are identical, or at least very similar, to conditions on the range in which such trivial differences in performance can be achieved.

Uneven/unstable footing, shooter/attacker movement, stress, lighting, weather, the ability to quickly recognize that one is indeed under deadly attack, etc., are just a few conditions that a shooter will have to contend with.

 

[Maddock]

Shawn – I think that a timer on a square range will show the comparative advantage (or lack there of) of one set of equipment over another. That objective measurement has been a great myth killer. Whether those advantages are significant in the real world is another part of the question.

jame – Back in the bad old days when I was shooting a lot of competition, I shot both a 1911 and a 4†25-2. Same loads, same style holster. My times to first shot were the same with the two and my splits were about .03-.05 seconds slower with the revolver. However my shots were a bit more accurate with the S&W. And my reloads were about a second slower. I don’t feel that there was or is enough difference to matter. One of the advantages of the revolver is it’s being less likely to malfunction with a contact shot.
Also, the SIG 239 is a DA/SA auto and their first pull is usually tougher to use than a good DA revolver.

 

[Ankeny]

On the range, my experience has been similar to Maddock's. The draw is the same, my splits with a wheelgun run .22 seconds or so and with the auto they run in the mid-teens at CQB distances. I would feel adequately armed with either.

 

[JamisJockey]

The best gun in an SD situation is the one in your hand!!!!

I've also got a security six, haven't been able to find a decent holster for it. I carry my PT145 and use the Six as a home gun.

 

[MrChicken]

Fast and accurate with a .357, what's there to think about?

 

[TonyB]

atc1man:The Desantis speed scabbard for a 686 will fit the Security 6 pretty good.....

 

[JamisJockey]

Tony,
Thanks!
I'd also love to find an outdoors holster for my Sec 6. Its a great gun, damn accurate for such a little barrel.

 

[Archie]

In my experience and observation...

double action revolvers are fastest for first shot acquisition and multiple targets. The best revolvers are those with short to moderate length light barrels. Yeah, they have a little more recoil, but they get back on target fast, and one can use the double action feature to recover from recoil.

That is one reason the FBI (and many other lawmen) used 3.5 inch N frames in 357 Magnum in the days they actually shot and arrested people. No offense to any in the Bureau now, but you have to know it's just not the same as it was in the thirties and forties.

Three inch K frames with the light barrels work well, too.

 

[jc2]

His a link to a really neat picture (and article). The subject is SA "Jelly" Bryce (one time of SAIC OK City). The picture shows him drawing and firing his .357 Magnum (3.5" M27) in two-fifths of a second.