FBI Agent Accidentally Shoots Man at Denver Nightclub: Is the Gun at Fault?

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Confederate

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DENVER -- An off-duty FBI agent dancing at a Denver nightclub accidentally discharged a firearm, wounding another patron in the leg, police said Saturday. The victim, an adult male, was rushed to a local hospital in good condition, said Denver police spokesman Sonny Jackson.

Police have refused to identify the hospital.

Jackson said the agent, whose identity wasn't released, was dancing at the downtown club around 12:45 a.m. Saturday when the firearm fell from the agent's waistband holster onto the floor. It discharged when the agent picked it up.

Police investigators interviewed the agent before releasing the agent to an FBI supervisor. The police investigation was continuing, and any charges would be determined by the Denver District Attorney's Office, said Officer Marika Putnam.
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Bet it's a Glock or some other plastic striker-fired pistol.

Striker-fired pistols are completely safe if you keep your finger off the trigger. The problem is, cops can't seem to keep their fingers off the trigger! I've always been critical of the plastic striker-fired pistols, but even more so when that cop accidentally shot and killed a man he and other officers were attempting to cuff a few years back. The man was not resisting arrest. The problem is, the officer touched the trigger of the Glock he was holding!

BANG!! Man dead. I only had a good laugh when that DEA agent shot himself at a school when the Glock pistol he was holding fired years ago. He'd just told the kids he was one of the few law enforcement officers who was qualified enough to handle that pistol. Then it went off.



Accidental discharges have increased dramatically since going to these types of guns. I'm starting to wonder if we should return to guns with safeties. I'm more convinced than ever that Glocks and similar weapons should not be carried with rounds up the snoot and ready to fire. I wouldn't jack a round into my S&W 659/5906 and carry it cocked, and yet it would be safer being carried like that than carrying a Glock.

For those of you with second- or third-generation Smiths, would you feel safe jacking a round into your gun and carrying it like that all day? Yes, it would be cocked, but I could make the same argument that if someone doesn't touch the trigger, it won't go off! And I could argue further that the Smith & Wesson 659/5906 has much more of a take-up in the trigger before the gun would fire. Yet I suspect you guys would consider carrying it that way irresponsible. So would I. But I'd rather carry my Smith & Wesson like that than to carry a Glock. The reason is simple. People make mistakes. They're not perfect. They get tired. They make errors in judgment.

That said, I've seen many of you guys I would trust in a heartbeat. You think all the time and you watch where you put your fingers and you don't make mistakes. But you're not cops, and if you are, I'm sorry, I just can't trust you if I'm a chief of police. That's why I'd switch everyone under my jurisdiction to a gun with a safety.

Am I being too harsh? Thoughts?

SW5906_2.jpg
The S&W 5906 is an all-steel 9mm pistol that is built like a tank. Would it be safe to be
carried with a round chambered and the hammer back?

 
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At first I was thinking he might be carrying a SIG 320 that hadn't had the upgrade. It could go off if dropped at just the right angle. Then I read where it "went off" when he picked it up.

My guess, he pulled the trigger in a fit of panic/embarrassment as he tried to scoop up the gun quickly.

I'm not an LEO, but my general rule of thumb is that I'm in a situation where I will be dancing or acting the fool, I don't carry a pistol. If were to carry in that situation, it would be more of a pocket back up gun. I blame the Agent and his subpar holster. I dont buy expensive rigs for my guns, but everyone of them will retain a pistol under jump-like conditions. I would be far more likely to drop a paddle holster with gun firmly retained than the pistol itself out of any of my $50 and under holsters. I would think Uncle Sam is billing all of us enough to provide quality retention for Agents.
 
An account I read said he tried to catch it when fell, the video pretty clearly shows it fired when he picked it up. Since it did not discharge when it hit the ground but rather as he grabbed it it seems likely he grabbed it and pulled the trigger.
 
Confederate said:
Am I being too harsh? Thoughts?
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Yup, way too hash...unless it is your habit to look for hardwear solutions for software problems.

The FBI agent made a series of bad decisions which lead to this incident...none of which could have been prevented by being issued a pistol with a different type of action

I could argue further that the Smith & Wesson 659/5906 has much more of a take-up in the trigger before the gun would fire.
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You'd be correct that the first DA takeup requires a longer and heavier travel, but it would only arguably have prevented this incident.

When I got into LE in 1979, one of our neighboring agencies had an officer accidentally shoot himself, while in the locker room, with an variation of these guns. It was a brand new stock gun and all safety systems were operational. What occurred was that he drop his gun while changing into uniform and caught it on it's the way to the ground...a fatal decision
 
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9mmepiphany said:
The FBI agent made a series of bad decisions which lead to this incident...none of which could have been prevented by being issued a pistol with a different type of action
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It's obvious to me from the video that he put his finger in the trigger guard when trying to quickly snatch his pistol off the floor. Wouldn't a pistol with a mechanism that blocks the trigger or sear from moving have prevented the AD? Something like the thumb safety on a 1911?
 
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100% the fault of this buffoon, not the gun. But hey, it's OK, he's an FBI agent . Many errors made by him. The most detrimental was an improper holster and having his finger on the trigger when grabbing it. His bonehead dance moves led to a bigger bonehead move of pulling the trigger because he just blew his cover and lost his gun.
 
Steve in Allentown said:
Wouldn't a pistol with a mechanism that blocks the trigger or sear from moving have prevented the AD?
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The sentence you quoted referred the inability of a different issued platform preventing the agent's bad decisions...not preventing his ND

As to a different platform, you wouldn't need to go as far as a "blocking mechanism" or even a DA/SA

A SIG pistol equiped with the DAK trigger would have hindered the discharge, as would a H&K platform equipped with a LEM trigger
 
I find it funny that people that have very little knowledge of a weapon system, they will blame the gun. First off the Agent in the video was stupid for doing his dance that ended with a flip with his gun. It's clear that he pulled the trigger, so the gun worked properly even after being dropped.
Confederate I think God that your not my Chief. I would hate to have someone that didn't trust a weapon, just because he wasn't trained how to properly use it, deciding on the weapon I had to use and trust my life to.
I carried a S&W 4046 for my first two years. That thing was a boat anchor with an 11 lbs trigger pull. I have carried a Glock for the last 15 years, just like the other 600 plus officers on my dept. And none of us have shot someone by accident.
A Glock will not go off just because an officer puts his finger on the trigger. He has to pull it. I have had more then a few bad guys look down the business end of a Glock with my finger on the trigger, but I was in full control of my weapon. I have also been in a few hand to hand fights without my weapon coming out of the holster on it's own. One of those fights lasted more then six min and we rolled around on the ground a little.
I just see this topic as a cover for a Glock hater to do some bashing.
I hope I was not too harsh, because I'm trying to be polite.
 
Things I think about this incident:
  • This guy was being a moron. It seems he was drinking. Whether he's only a moron when he's drinking or is a moron all the time, I have no idea.
  • Getting drunk while carrying is stupid. A badge doesn't change that. If you are the kind of LEO who feels you cannot ever go anywhere without a gun, then you should probably be a teetotaller, or, at most, a one-beer kinda guy/gal.
  • Doing flips while carrying is stupid. (This is a new thought for me... I've never previously considered the matter, but now have a definite opinion on it.)
  • Holsters for public carry should have more retention than a pocket.
  • People who have dropped things in embarrassing/compromising situations can become flustered and even unsafe. If have had to DQ more than one USPSA shooter because they dropped a magazine and bent down to pick it up... while swinging the gun behind them, as people often do with their empty hands when they bend over. Dropping something you're not supposed to drop is acutely embarrassing. Panic sets in. You get bad decisions and spastic moves. If you're feeling the flop-sweat, it's time to get very deliberate and intentional with all your actions.
  • This is the fault of the guy in the video, nobody else. But the chance of this precise kind of idiocy resulting in an actual ND is higher when the gun doesn't have an off-switch or a revolver-like trigger. There's a tradeoff. Ironically, the same people who are deemed too idiotic to remember to switch off a safety in a fight are asked to be sufficiently non-idiotic not to grab the gun spastically in other situations.
 
Were there ever negligent discharges when law enforcement carried revolvers? Not saying that the striker fired pistols of today aren’t less forgiving in negligence, but I think today’s social media and internet access makes all events more reportable than 30 years ago. Back in the day information on incidents of negligent discharges weren’t broadcast across the world by a click of a button. Like 9mmepiphany said you are looking for a hardware solution for a software problem. Plus people need to accept the fact that just because a person is law enforcement doesn’t mean they are immune to bad gun handling practices. If they were we wouldn’t have so many incidents of ND in law enforcement alone. Yep, they are just human and make mistakes like the rest of us. Just like there are bad mechanics, plumbers, and electricians there are also incompetent law enforcement officers in all fields. Accidents happen, but when you shoot someone accidentally you need to be punished to the full extent of the law. Just to play devil’s advocate here, what if he accidently shot that guy in the femoral artery or shot a pregnant woman in the stomach. This is why ND’s are so scary, the bullet doesn’t have a name on it even more so.
 
Steve in Allentown said:
It's obvious to me from the video that he put his finger in the trigger guard when trying to quickly snatch his pistol off the floor. Wouldn't a pistol with a mechanism that blocks the trigger or sear from moving have prevented the AD? Something like the thumb safety on a 1911?
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Yeah no, It's pretty clear that a functioning Glock will not go off unless you disengage the trigger safety. That said I've converted from Glocks to Sig DA/SA hammers a dozen years ago because I'd rather have the long initial DA trigger pull and the indication of my thumb on the hammer. Both are equally safe as is a gun with a frame-mounted safety. IMHO It's just too easy to manipulate the trigger safety on a Glock. But you definitely cannot do that unless you or something touches the trigger.
 
I blame the holster. If the gun had never come out of the holster this would not have happened.

I feel pretty sure that all but one of my holsters would retain it's designated firearm even if I took a header off a 10 story building much less doing a backflip.
 
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