FBI Agent Accidentally Shoots Man at Denver Nightclub: Is the Gun at Fault?

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1. No, it's not the guns fault any more than it's the gun's fault at all of the various mass shootings.
2. There may be a chance it's the gun manufacturer's fault or the holster manufacturer's fault or his underwear manufacturer's fault or his shirt manufacturers fault, but I doubt it.

So that leaves ? ...
 
The only one at fault here is the FBI agent. He chose to carry a gun when he went out partying. He chose to use a holster that did not have active retention. He tried to grab the gun & pulled the trigger. I believe a Glock or other striker fired pistol is as safe as anything else if handled properly.
 
Confederate said:
Accidental discharges have increased dramatically since going to these types of guns.
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We actually don't know that. It's only been fairly recently, the last decade or so, that law enforcement agencies had to keep and make public records of shootings and unintended discharges. So for the decades before this statistics on this are very spotty. Most to the point of being useless. Even today there is no national mandate for local agencies to report this info to any federal agency. The FBI's data base is voluntary.

tipoc
 
Confederate said:
Accidental discharges have increased dramatically since going to these types of guns.
Click to expand...
That actually can't be proven as there are no comparative statistics to compare...just anecdotal evidence.

I will offer that during my 28 years career in LE, the pistols most often connected to an AD/ND had a manual safety (1911) and were followed by revolvers. Glocks were next on the list, but the numbers were a bit skewed due to the NDs during disassembly when initially introduced/adopted
 
Hmmmm, the only two bullet holes in the walls of the police station I spent 13.5 years at were from an AMT back-up .380 in the locker room, and a Beretta 96 .40 in the range office. Both were the fault of the operator. We had tons of Glocks there (9mm, .40, 45 and 10mm) along with H&K, Sig, Beretta, S&W and a few 1911's and even one Hi-Power. There are no holes in the walls of my current agency (11.5 years and counting) where we issue Glocks, nor are there any at the agency I spent 4 years at starting out my career back in the early 1990's (where they issued 5906 boat anchors and we ultimately got to carry whatever we wanted starting in 1993).

In this case, the youthful agent just pissed away a decent career in a moment of alcohol-induced enthusiasm.

And yes, it's pretty clear that he grabbed the gun in a panic and depressed the trigger as he did so..shooting a patron in the leg. It's not the gun's fault, not the holster's fault, not the FBI's fault...it's the knuckleheads fault.
 
9mmepiphany said:
That actually can't be proven as there are no comparative statistics to compare...just anecdotal evidence.

I will offer that during my 28 years career in LE, the pistols most often connected to an AD/ND had a manual safety (1911) and were followed by revolvers. Glocks were next on the list, but the numbers were a bit skewed due to the NDs during disassembly when initially introduced/adopted
Click to expand...

The last AD I investigated was a Glock where the guy racked the slide, dropped the mag, then discharged it into the range bullet barrel prior to cleaning....the one before that was a 1911 a SWAT guy had, he flinched and sent a round into the wall of an apartment when the pieces of shattered glass remaining in a sliding door frame collapsed and fell on him as he went through. So it can happen with just about anything if someone doesn't follow the rules of firearms safety....

Stay safe!
 
If it was a smart gun where it has to read fingerprints, retina, and analyze a dna sample then it still would have fired because Barney Fife is a dummy. Can’t fix stupid, and can’t keep stupid out of the news.
 
Riomouse911 said:
the one before that was a 1911 a SWAT guy had, he flinched and sent a round into the wall of an apartment when the pieces of shattered glass remaining in a sliding door frame collapsed and fell on him as he went through.
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That is a Major Fail when you consider the additional training that most SWAT type guys get. Can we assume from this that you department policy didn't specify that the thumb safety remain engaged ( the the trigger finger off the trigger) until the gun was "on target"?

I've seen more than one department that hadn't updated their training, in this regard, to the Modern Technique
 
jjones45 got to it before me. A bunch of folks (e.g. LAPD) kept track of the numbers on effectiveness and safety when going to autoloaders. Lighter triggers, more boolits, and mostly carried without safety engaged or non-safety-levered guns.

Generally, firearms accidents plummeted. 10% (or 1%) of the revolver era cops, overnight.

Why? Software solutions. Better training from the academy onward ingrained basic truths like don't touch the trigger until you mean it.

No. It's not the gun's fault.
 
shoobe01 said:
A bunch of folks (e.g. LAPD) kept track of the numbers on effectiveness and safety when going to autoloaders. Lighter triggers, more boolits, and mostly carried without safety engaged or non-safety-levered guns.
Click to expand...
I remember when LAPD first went to the Beretta 92. The had their issued holsters (Don Hume) customized to insure that the thumb safety was "off" when the thumb strap was applied
 
It's not the gun, it's not the holster, it's the fault of the agent.

Stupid places, with stupid people, doing stupid things. The fact of "it went off!" when he put his finger on the trigger and him walking away and not checking on the victim says even more. I hope this guy gets let go.
 
“It went off” is the passive habit people learn to get away with in schools for decades. Richard Mitchell, a grammarian at Glassboro State Teacher’s College wrote about it around 1991 in his book Less Than Words Can Say. A wonderful indictment of how language -- which is how we think -- dragging us back into the fog. The book is available, reprinted, on Amazon.

He chastises the loss of responsibility. “A meeting was held...” should be written, “We held a meeting...”

Like hell, “It went off”. He pulled the trigger.
 
The vid of this has already made the national news and the talk show circuit. Along with critiques of his dancing. This will be floating around for a long time.

I'm impressed that any FBI agent, drunk or sober, can do a back flip.
 
The Four Rules. The 3 S's. (Don't do Stupid things, in Stupid places, with Stupid people) Common sense.
He broke all of the above.
Finger definitely pulled the trigger.
 
There is also this one that requires no modifications and will allow you to return to factory configuration in a couple of minutes:

https://bhspringsolutions.com/glock-optimization/194-manual-safety-for-glock-.html

(For full disclosure: I was provided an evaluation unit by BHSS, and it works as advertised. I, however, did not like the change to the manual of arms, and felt that the safety position was a little too far to the rear for my liking. I let a friend try it out, and it now resides (probably permanently) on his Glock 26. He really, really likes it.)
 
In my opinion:

1) The gun was not properly secured
2) The gun functioned as intended

If anyone finds any real evidence to contradict number (2) above, let me know and I'll reopen the thread.
 
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