Owen Sparks
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FBI Flyers in gun stores
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armoredman
Member
So, what does the FBI flyer in the flight schools look like?
Response was posted by Apocalypse-Now
Reference terrorist handbook page 57, paragraph 3, and I quote "Guns should be purchased locally in order to avoid detection by American law enforcement."
Posted by armoredman
Actually homeland security is still working on getting those out, with a anticipated distribution date of 26 Dec. 2012.
Reference terrorist handbook page 57, paragraph 3, and I quote "Guns should be purchased locally in order to avoid detection by American law enforcement."
Posted by armoredman
Actually homeland security is still working on getting those out, with a anticipated distribution date of 26 Dec. 2012.
Apocalypse-Now
Member
i agree to a point.
certain sacrifices have to be made to avoid attack.
many didn't like the homeland security act that the W. spearheaded, but i haven't noticed any of my rights stripped from me as a result.
i'd rather have that act renewed, rather than Obozo enact his own ignorant version of homeland security, which would probably make terrorists american citizens, registered Democrats, and given a lawyer on the taxpayers dime....
Owen Sparks
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Do you know how the government dealt with a hand full of prohibition era gangsters who misused Thompson guns and short barreled shotguns? They passed a law making “gangster weapons” illegal for millions of law abiding American citizens never robbed a bank or shot anyone.
The threat of domestic terrorism will result in restrictive measures that will be applied just as collectively as the NFA was. Anytime you are considered part of a group, (the general public in this case) you are seen as no better than the least member of that group or the weakest link in the chain, and if “domestic terrorists” can’t be trusted with modern high capacity firearms then NOBODY should have them because of what they might do (except the government of course).
We have been down this road before. This time will be no different. Keep sacrificing little bits of your liberty in exchange for safety and soon you will have neither.
The threat of domestic terrorism will result in restrictive measures that will be applied just as collectively as the NFA was. Anytime you are considered part of a group, (the general public in this case) you are seen as no better than the least member of that group or the weakest link in the chain, and if “domestic terrorists” can’t be trusted with modern high capacity firearms then NOBODY should have them because of what they might do (except the government of course).
We have been down this road before. This time will be no different. Keep sacrificing little bits of your liberty in exchange for safety and soon you will have neither.
Nushif
Member
That's where I disagree. If we stop what we're doing because of stuff that *might* happen ... well. no good.
Apocalypse-Now
Member
i haven't been affected by this. honestly never heard of it lol
what have you had to stop doing? the W.'s homeland security act hasn't affected me, or anyone i know. (other than having to take my shoes off at the airport lol) has it affected you? if it has, how so?
this is why i mentioned that Obozo should renew W.'s homeland security act, rather than make a new one. Democrats, of course, love to strip rights away to please the lesser few.....
Nose of that camel
Apocalypse-soon. Starting with an all-out blast at Bubba-types, and those "identified" as suspicious. You know - folks like us who are dangerously infected with gun-itis.
quote:The FBI is part of the dept. of homeland security, guys. they're looking for terrorists to keep america safe, not infringing your 2nd amen rights. (( Do you mean those nasty evil ex-soldiers who come home, still "killers". Or those other terrorists who don't shave or get hair-cuts or have Gadsden Flags on their trunks?))
terrorists obviously buy guns, rather smart move by the FBI to circulate flyers in gunshops.
if you're there to buy a gun, and aren't a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about. the NRA thinks everything that the government does is an "assault on the 2nd amen".end quote. I really believe that we are being set-up for gun confiscation, after an attempt is made, on high-ranking elected persons and family, using Bubba-types, and definitely guns, and then a swoop against all gun owners. I hope I'm wrong. I've only buried 3.
Apocalypse-soon. Starting with an all-out blast at Bubba-types, and those "identified" as suspicious. You know - folks like us who are dangerously infected with gun-itis.
quote:The FBI is part of the dept. of homeland security, guys. they're looking for terrorists to keep america safe, not infringing your 2nd amen rights. (( Do you mean those nasty evil ex-soldiers who come home, still "killers". Or those other terrorists who don't shave or get hair-cuts or have Gadsden Flags on their trunks?))
terrorists obviously buy guns, rather smart move by the FBI to circulate flyers in gunshops.
if you're there to buy a gun, and aren't a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about. the NRA thinks everything that the government does is an "assault on the 2nd amen".end quote. I really believe that we are being set-up for gun confiscation, after an attempt is made, on high-ranking elected persons and family, using Bubba-types, and definitely guns, and then a swoop against all gun owners. I hope I'm wrong. I've only buried 3.
Apocalypse-Now
Member
ok, lol what do you guys suggest the government do to keep us safe from terrorist attacks? HmmMMM?
you guys seem to take issue with any measures they take whatsoever....and any action they are taking will eventually lead to "gun grabbing".
i think you guys are just being paranoid lol
you guys seem to take issue with any measures they take whatsoever....and any action they are taking will eventually lead to "gun grabbing".
i think you guys are just being paranoid lol
buck460XVR
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There is a legal way own "gangster" type weapons and yes if you break the law, you are a criminal and should be treated as such. Just because you disagree with a law, doesn't give you protection from prosecution if you break it.....unlike the thought process of the criminal mind.
i think you guys are just being paranoid lol
Ya think? It seems it's not just the little old ladies wearin' the Tin-Foil hats.
Somebody comes into a gun store, wants to buy 20 XD-M .40 cals with extra Hi-Cap mags and then asks to purchase 5000 rounds of ammo designed for penetrating modern body armor, whadda you think he's huntin'? You don't think someone in LE should be called and the sale should be made? You think that by a gun store owner doing this it is a infringement of your rights? What if those 20 guns ended up @ your kid's school or your wife's place of work? How jeopardized are your rights then?
Yes, there is a legitimate reason for fear, but it is not from within.
Gun Geezer
Member
Well, according to the FBI, I am a terrorist. And all this time I thought I was just a normal guy that enjoyed the shooting sports and wanted to be able to protect myself.
I'll go cling to my Bible for a while.
I'll go cling to my Bible for a while.
jerkface11
Member
Big brothers budget isn't good enough so they need us to do the dirty work for them now?
Maybe the FBI is trying to determine if the BATFE is still routing weapons to the Mexican drug cartels? Seriously, notifying the BATFE of suspicious activity is calling the fox to guard the chicken coop. They've only admitted to 1350 weapons being allowed to go south of the border and into criminal hands; some of the agents involved are reporting the numbers could be up to five times higher.
I'd like to comment, but I can't seem to get the pdf to open.
Oh, there we go.......OMG thats me!
No seriously, none of that stuff would get the attention of any gun dealer I know( well, that credit card thing). If your customer tries to buy a gun while screaming" ALLAH ACKBAR " then you should probably call somebody, but jeesh.
Oh, there we go.......OMG thats me!
No seriously, none of that stuff would get the attention of any gun dealer I know( well, that credit card thing). If your customer tries to buy a gun while screaming" ALLAH ACKBAR " then you should probably call somebody, but jeesh.
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Apocalypse-Now
Member
when did the FBI tell you that you're a terrorist? LOL
obviously i'm not a fan of the feds restricting gun rights, but at the same time, i don't freak out over anything they do that concerns guns. like i said before, not everything they do is "an assault on your god given rights". chillax people lol
this is why i never bought an NRA membership. if a federal employee rips a fart near a gunshop, the NRA shoots out emails to all it's members claiming uncle sam is "at it again" LMAO they need to focus their resources on curbing valid anti-gun legislation.
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Not yet, but the groundwork is there to use.
They are not idiots. That would bring unwanted attention. They buy guns, ammo, etc on the black market, where they buy most things. They are criminals, remember?
You are right about that one, it wasn't the FBI, it was the pres and his czars who have tired to paint folks like us as "terrorists" so that down thee road it would not seem to strange to the gun ignorant John Q Public if the FBI took us in, or out, accompanied with the appropriate press from sympathetic media.
There are many little side items in the anti's war on guns and freedom that are not blatantly anti gun, just a little more kindling on the fire.
The anti gun/freedom movement is real, never forget that.
MrsSmith
Member
Hate to say this guys, but I really don't think this is about the government trying to get gun store owners to out their regular customers. This is very similar to efforts being made across the board to get regular civilians to be more observant of potential terrorist activity. I've seen it even in the recreational boating industry, asking civilian boaters to report any unusual activity (such as people photographing the undersides of bridges, entrances to our ports, oil storage facilities near the ports, or small vessels shadowing oil tankers or container ships - which are potential terrorist weapons). I also don't think this is a case of them trying to get us to do their jobs - don't we ALL have a responsiblity to protect not just ourselves and our families but our communities and (in the big picture) our nation? The people most likely to actually see potential terrorist activity are NOT the people with badges. Terrorists worry about LEOs, they don't worry about ordinary citizens because they assume that most people are sheep.
As to the gun store owners. They're likely in the business because (just like the rest of us) they like guns, believe in self defense, and believe in 2A. We need to give them some credit. I doubt seriously if the majority of them are going to report me to the FBI if I were to decide next week that I want to be a blonde or a redhead.
I also suspect that the majority of them have enough gumption to refuse a sale that made the hair on the backs of their necks stand up. But criminals and "enemies foreign or domestic" don't typically stop into the local gun store and buy weapons legally. The government knows this, they're just covering their bases. How can they ask private flying schools, recreational boaters, trucking companies, etc. to keep an eye out and not ask people who sell weapons? How do you think the libs would respond to that?
If I were a gun store owner and got that flyer, I'd have gone straight to my computer and created a similar flyer instructing the local FBI office how it should be conducting business, printed it out and sent both flyers to them. But that's just me. Sometimes its best to just not take things quite so seriously.
This was a poorly reproduced flyer that has no more power than a piece of paper you might print it on. Even if it were handed to you in person by an FBI agent, it's still just words on a piece of paper. If we want to get upset about something, let's get upset about words floating through congress that DO have the power to hurt us by taking away our rights - and do something about it.
As to the gun store owners. They're likely in the business because (just like the rest of us) they like guns, believe in self defense, and believe in 2A. We need to give them some credit. I doubt seriously if the majority of them are going to report me to the FBI if I were to decide next week that I want to be a blonde or a redhead.
I also suspect that the majority of them have enough gumption to refuse a sale that made the hair on the backs of their necks stand up. But criminals and "enemies foreign or domestic" don't typically stop into the local gun store and buy weapons legally. The government knows this, they're just covering their bases. How can they ask private flying schools, recreational boaters, trucking companies, etc. to keep an eye out and not ask people who sell weapons? How do you think the libs would respond to that?
If I were a gun store owner and got that flyer, I'd have gone straight to my computer and created a similar flyer instructing the local FBI office how it should be conducting business, printed it out and sent both flyers to them. But that's just me. Sometimes its best to just not take things quite so seriously.
This was a poorly reproduced flyer that has no more power than a piece of paper you might print it on. Even if it were handed to you in person by an FBI agent, it's still just words on a piece of paper. If we want to get upset about something, let's get upset about words floating through congress that DO have the power to hurt us by taking away our rights - and do something about it.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Some of the suggestions of things to watch for make a lot of sense, but I could see a few of them leading to false positives. For example...
I'm not saying any of the above are likely, but having encountered one "sportsman" at a gun store just a few weeks ago who was practically spitting with rage over those of us who like AR's (and ascribing rather evil motives to those of us who own them), I could see someone like that reporting me as a "terrorist" for some of the above. And if not me, certainly someone like me who had a more "foreign" sounding name, a more "foreign" looking face, or who practiced a different religion than I do.
Al Qaeda could never destroy this country even if they crashed a plane a week, but overzealous politicians and authority figures throwing our civil liberties out the window can. Terrorism isn't an existential threat to the United States, but trashing the Constitution in the name of safety destroys everything we are and everything we stand for.
And the ink was barely dry on the Patriot Act before those new powers started being applied to mundane criminal offenses. That sort of mission creep is inevitable.
Regarding the 2ndA, the previous administration also wanted to summarily revoke the right to own a gun from anyone placed on the terrorism watchlists for any reason. The DLC and the media are still pushing that one.
FWIW, I saw a quote recently that I really liked, and I'm going to repeat here. It's from a work of pop fiction, but it so tragically describes our era:
- I occasionally pay for purchases with cash.
- I occasionally buy ammunition or shoot at ranges "illogical distances" from home, out of convenience.
- Anyone who is interested in being competent at HD, or who shoots IDPA/USPSA, or who studies combatives, could be accused of practicing "offensive moves in a confined space."
- Anyone with a carry license is probably pretty darn interested in "learning the use of hidden weapons."
- I've never practiced or trained in group tactics, but I'll bet a lot of carbine classes include them.
- I've certainly made bulk purchases of "weatherproofed ammunition" and "high-capacity magazines" over the years, like many/most people on this board.
I'm not saying any of the above are likely, but having encountered one "sportsman" at a gun store just a few weeks ago who was practically spitting with rage over those of us who like AR's (and ascribing rather evil motives to those of us who own them), I could see someone like that reporting me as a "terrorist" for some of the above. And if not me, certainly someone like me who had a more "foreign" sounding name, a more "foreign" looking face, or who practiced a different religion than I do.
Those sacrifices do not include the civil liberties that largely define us as Americans, in my opinion. People died to give us the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and to protect them over the last two centuries, so I don't want those rights thrown out the window in order to protect me from a statistically unlikely bogeyman.
Al Qaeda could never destroy this country even if they crashed a plane a week, but overzealous politicians and authority figures throwing our civil liberties out the window can. Terrorism isn't an existential threat to the United States, but trashing the Constitution in the name of safety destroys everything we are and everything we stand for.
Your 4th Amendment rights have largely been stripped from you, just as mine have from me. And if you find yourself accused of certain crimes, you certainly have far less legal protections under the 5th than you used to.
And the ink was barely dry on the Patriot Act before those new powers started being applied to mundane criminal offenses. That sort of mission creep is inevitable.
The more authoritarian-leaning Democrats support the Patriot Act just as much as some Republicans do, since that act is basically a rehash of Clinton's executive-power wishlist from the 1990's and in some cases goes even further than what Clinton ever dreamed of. If you think Schumer, Feinstein, and the rest of the DLC/Third Way movement want more due process for the accused, rather than less, I think you are mistaken.
Regarding the 2ndA, the previous administration also wanted to summarily revoke the right to own a gun from anyone placed on the terrorism watchlists for any reason. The DLC and the media are still pushing that one.
FWIW, I saw a quote recently that I really liked, and I'm going to repeat here. It's from a work of pop fiction, but it so tragically describes our era:
Fn-P9
Member
I think Ben Ezra just about hit it on the button. This is all just a small piece of the puzzle to shape what we think about ourselves and others. Jesse Ventura said something along the lines of "Ill face the danger, leave my freedoms alone". I would accually like to know the personality of the person who wrote the fliers.
I am sure that these are designed as some generic thing that one could replace guns with just about anything. Someone said boats and taking pictures. They now run ads with the slogan "see it, say it" meaning to report activity. They always show some "menacing" guy in a black hat taking pictures of city hall. Like someone with learned helplessness we have a learned fear. Society anyways.....
I am sure that these are designed as some generic thing that one could replace guns with just about anything. Someone said boats and taking pictures. They now run ads with the slogan "see it, say it" meaning to report activity. They always show some "menacing" guy in a black hat taking pictures of city hall. Like someone with learned helplessness we have a learned fear. Society anyways.....
Apocalypse-Now
Member
i'll ask again: can someone here point out a single instance where their rights or freedoms have been violated or taken away by the homeland security act enacted by the W.?
is there a gun you wanted to purchase, that now you cannot?
so you have to take your shoes off at the airport, big deal! lol
folks will either complain about being attacked, or the efforts to thwart those attacks. you can't please everyone.
seriously? you believe terrorists run around all day with a rule book in their satchel?
is there a gun you wanted to purchase, that now you cannot?
so you have to take your shoes off at the airport, big deal! lol
folks will either complain about being attacked, or the efforts to thwart those attacks. you can't please everyone.
seriously? you believe terrorists run around all day with a rule book in their satchel?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Might want to do some research, that's exactly what he's talking about. Part of what kicked all this up was some information in AQ training manuals that were "obtained" over the years.
I'm sorry, but you just lost every shred of credibility you had by using that phrase.
Now pick up that can citizen.
Freedom lost, all in the name of fighting "terrisim".
How long will it be before you're a "terrist" because you own an AR-15?
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Apocalypse-Now
Member
yes, i am aware of the manual. however, i certainly don't believe that terrorists adhere to a rulebook for everything they do, especially now that they know it's all over the internet. that just wouldn't make any sense.
chillax, B
please share with us what freedoms you have lost in the name of fighting terrorism.
i'm obvious not a fan of government policies intervening in my business, i'm a gun owner. however, i also realize certain reasonable measure must be taken to avoid further attacks. i haven't lost a single freedom, or had any rights violations from W's homeland security policy--and no one on this forum has listed any either.
Well I'm not worried at all...'specially after seeing my favorite $14.95 Casio watch (of which I have bought many) splashed across TV the other day!
Seems if you prefer Casio watches, you're probably already on somebody's terrorist list! :banghead:
And all these years I thought I preferred 'em because I was a pragmatist, they were inexpensive, and keep good time.
Who knew I was really a terrorist...
MisterMike
Member
I have to agree that the level of paranoia being exhibited by some here is a bit over the top. Think back a few years to the days in late 2001, when the FBI and folks who operated flight schools were roundly criticized for failing to pick up on the early signals of the 9/11 plot.
This is nothing more than asking gun shop owners to report suspicious behavior. If you think Joe the Gunshop Owner is going to rat out a guy buying to support his gun habit...or that the FBI has the time or interest to chase down legitimate purchasers...you're letting your imagination get the best of you. Lest you are not aware, the FBI constantly cultivates relationships with people in a variety of industries to tip them off to potential criminal behavior.
To be alarmed over this happening in the area of firearms sales is pure, unadulterated paranoia. There are plenty of things happening in government about which we should be concerned. This isn't one of them.
This is nothing more than asking gun shop owners to report suspicious behavior. If you think Joe the Gunshop Owner is going to rat out a guy buying to support his gun habit...or that the FBI has the time or interest to chase down legitimate purchasers...you're letting your imagination get the best of you. Lest you are not aware, the FBI constantly cultivates relationships with people in a variety of industries to tip them off to potential criminal behavior.
To be alarmed over this happening in the area of firearms sales is pure, unadulterated paranoia. There are plenty of things happening in government about which we should be concerned. This isn't one of them.
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