FBI investigates taped LAPD beating

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Chipperman

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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/09/lapd.investigation/index.html


LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The FBI announced it is investigating Los Angeles police after viewing a videotape that shows officers repeatedly beating a suspect in the face while he cries out that he cannot breathe.

William Cardenas, 23, a gang member, was wanted on a felony warrant for receiving stolen property, police said. On August 11, officers Patrick Farrell and Alexander Schlegel recognized him and chased him. Cardenas ran.

When they tried to arrest Cardenas, the police say, Cardenas struggled. (Watch the controversial video showing how officers arrested a man -- 0:43 )

"The officers were able to knock Cardenas to the ground ... after a struggle, the officers arrested Cardenas," according to a police statement.

But Cardenas' attorney, Kwaku Duren, told CNN her client did not use any force when resisting arrest, and said he only struggled because one of the officers had a knee on his neck and he could not breathe. (Watch how video of police beating has sparked community fury -- 2:39 )

Cardenas was sought on the warrant because he had failed to appear in court on a misdemeanor stolen property charge, Duren said. He wasn't in court because he could not leave his job during the day, the attorney added.

A "preliminary investigation" has been opened into the incident, said FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller. It is standard procedure in any case involving possible civil rights violations, she said. The FBI's findings will be passed on to the Justice Department, she said.

The LAPD's internal affairs division is also investigating the arrest, the department confirmed Thursday.

Farrell and Schlegel have been assigned to administrative duties.

The officers mentioned using force to arrest Cardenas in the arrest report, including "a description of Officer Farrell striking Cardenas' face," police said. Following department policy, sergeants investigated the reported use of force and interviewed witnesses who recalled seeing the struggle.

"The involved officers and the investigating supervisors were not aware that an uninvolved witness recorded part of the arrest on a video camera," police said.

The footage was first made public September 14 at Cardenas' preliminary hearing on charges of resisting arrest and the felony warrant, police said. The stolen property charge, which Cardenas initially faced, was dropped, his attorney told CNN.

He is now charged with two counts of using violence or threat of violence to prevent an officer from performing their duty, Duren said.

Prosecutors gave the video to the LAPD, which initiated the department's investigation.

"Police work is not always pretty," Police Chief William Bratton said in the statement. "But in my 36 years of law enforcement, I've learned not to make a judgment until I have all the facts."

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Nice closing statement from the Chief. The voice of reason "I've learned not to make a judgment until I have all the facts."

No mention of weapons on the gang member.

"He wasn't in court because he could not leave his job during the day" :scrutiny:

Hopefully justice will prevail, one way or the other. Article seems to be pretty objective.
 
HE WAS RESISTING ! The cops may not have followed procedures but he was resisting so I have no sympathy for him. Remember Rodney King ? There was another man in the car . What happened to him ? NOTHING because he did what the cops told him to ! You run from the cops and you have a problem, you resist cops and you have a problem .Some people are just too stupid to understand that !
 
That didn't seem like the cops used too much force. The suspect was clearly resisting, and they needed to get cuffs on him. If he had an objection to being handcuffed, he could have stated it politely.

I think that we are way too lenient on violent criminals in our society. When an adult tries to wrestle with some policemen who are just trying to do their job, it shouldn't be treated like a sport.
 
I'll wait until I can view the ENTIRE videotape of this current "excessive force" before making any judgement.

Remember, back in 1992, the Simi Valley jury that acquitted the 4 LAPD officers of most of the charges were able to see the ENTIRE videotape of poor Rodney King being "abused". The snips that the news media ran, re-ran, and continued to re-run for the maximum impact looked really terrible. I know several folks who have seen the entire tape, and they ALL have said that Rodney King was lucky that the officers didn't SHOOT him!

"Can't we all jus' gets along?"
 
does anybody know of a link where you can see the whole rodney king video?
look in most situations if you surrender to the police's orders everything goes smooth. don't get me wrong there is the occasional cop that goes to far but those are few.
 
"I can't breathe!"

If you can talk, you can breathe.

Silly gangbanger.


EDIT: Hey at least this time he wasn't black. No more L.A. Riots please.
 
if anyone is curious as to why it always seems that the LAPD uses excessive force, its because they have approx 2500-3000 police officers for their jurisdiction. They have to show that they arent going to mess around.

Sheriff and other agencies help as well, but compared to NYPD's 37,000 man force or philadelphias 5000 man force, its still a far cry from being equal.
 
"I can't breathe!"

If you can talk, you can breathe.
Yup. Saying "I can't breathe." is like saying "I'm asleep." Both are always a lie for very similar reasons.
 
"I can't breathe!"

If you can talk, you can breathe.

Yup. Saying "I can't breathe." is like saying "I'm asleep." Both are always a lie for very similar reasons.

I'm not entirely sure about that; if someone is bobbing up and down in a swimming pool, gasping out "I'm drowning, I'm drowning!", does that mean that they're NOT drowning?
 
I don't like the amount of weight that seems to be on the guy's neck from the cop's knee. That's going to induce panic in just about anybody.

If a cop WANTS to bust you for "resisting", they can apply pain holds that would make Ghandi wiggle something fierce. That is what I suspect is happening here.

Then again, we haven't seen the whole thing.
 
I agree, Jim. That, combined with the OC, would surely make a man feel that he couldn't breathe.

Biker
 
I saw a clip of this the other day. It was only about 15 seconds of video. I absolutely refuse to start convicting people on the internet without seeing more of the video. People can claim it is due to storage space, but not posting the whole thing is just dishonest IMHO.
 
I'm not entirely sure about that; if someone is bobbing up and down in a swimming pool, gasping out "I'm drowning, I'm drowning!", does that mean that they're NOT drowning?
Drowning is a progressive thing--you realize you're in trouble long before you aspirate enough water to make talking impossible.

If you can't breathe then you also can't move the air through your airways required to speak. That's why one of the first things they teach you about the Heimlich maneuver is how to recognize that someone's choking--cause if they really are, they can't tell you by talking.

The practicality of these situations is that once an arrestee escalates the situation to the point that the cops have to get physical with him, things are going to be plenty unpleasant for him from that point until they get him cuffed/restrained. At that point, crying and whining that you're in distress is pretty stupid--it's not like the cops are going to be dumb enough to let you up and have another go at them. You're going to get to eat dirt until they have you completely restrained.
 
excessive force is excessive force, period. If you can't take down a guy, no matter how much he ran, disobeyed, or even resisted, you (as a police officer) have no more damn right to throw ONE SINGLE PUNCH, let alone half a dozen, than I would if I were the one resisting. If you can't handle the job without using excessive force, don't be a damn cop.

People wonder why police officers get a bad rap. :fire:
 
Drowning is a progressive thing

Just like being suffocated to death is ;) ; if someone is hurting you to the point where you feel like you're being KILLED, I think it'll take more self-control than you, I, or Mother Teresa have to NOT struggle against it.
 
DKsuddeth, you obviously have little experience or knowledge of law enforcment tactics and training. It isnt about whether or not you can control the guy with the tactics you've been taught. Its about controlling the guy...period.

What did you want the cops to do "oh, this guy is too hard to take down, migh as well let him go"

Does that seem like a realistic idea to you?

So they next time I go on a call and I have go up against a 6 foot 5, 300lb behemoth from the projects whos tweaking on PCP...maybe I should just leave because I might not get the job done with the "appropriate" amount of force. :rolleyes:
 
heck

I'm lil guy. I have a standing bet for dksuddeth or anyone else. You get a burly friend and try to cuff me.I'm not allowed to punch trust wriggle and pull away. you can't punch either. i got a c note for any guys that can cuff me without "hurting " me. never paid out on it yet.And a lotta liberal folks lose their liberal after my elbow nails em in the beak as i struggle to resist.aqccidentally like.i did however have a 65 year old sensei subdue me totally. by himself and one handed without hitting. hurt like heck though
 
IMO, the reason the LAPD is given to excessive force is that Daryl Gates successfully "militarized" the department in the 80s. Now many if not most interactions with the LAPD are characterized by officers aggressively "taking control" of all situations -- including moving violations and littering citations.

In my work as a paramedic I have been in situations where I felt it was the peace officers who were escalating the scene rather than the "perpetrators". IMO, LAPD officers all-too-often inject aggression into the scene, with negative results. I saw a 70 year old man complaining of chest pain pulled forcibly from his car for not "complying" with orders. I saw a fat woman with her arm pulled so far behind her back that she was writhing in pain, the officer repeatedly ordering her to stop resisting while forcing the arm further up. And so on and so forth.

Overall, my experience -- from a pro law-and-order POV -- is that even peacable citizens in L.A. do not tend to look upon peace officers as their friends, but rather as an occupying force. Good to have when truly needed, but otherwise to be regarded warily and avoided when possible.

I will yield to the experienced LEOs here who may claim that "us vs. them" tactics have become necessary in today's world. But I will not stop pointing out that the result of such tactics is that the police and the citizenry will view each other as the enemy. And that can't possibly be a good thing.
 
DBMF said:
DKsuddeth, you obviously have little experience or knowledge of law enforcment tactics and training. It isnt about whether or not you can control the guy with the tactics you've been taught. Its about controlling the guy...period.
which doesnt require half a dozen punches to the face while your partner is holding his arms and sitting on his torso. THAT is excessive force. Again, if you can't do the job the right way, don't do it at all. It's not a job that you can get your jollies by roughing up a suspect because he didn't stop at your command.

DBMF said:
What did you want the cops to do "oh, this guy is too hard to take down, migh as well let him go"

Does that seem like a realistic idea to you?
Of course not, but neither does pretending you're on UFC fight night.
 
Just like being suffocated to death is
Not being able to breathe is not progressive. If you can breathe you can talk. If you can't breathe, you can't talk. If you can talk and it's easily understandable then you're a long way from not being able to breathe.
...if someone is hurting you to the point where you feel like you're being KILLED, I think it'll take more self-control than you, I, or Mother Teresa have to NOT struggle against it.
I agree--that's what the entire last paragraph in my post was about. Once an arrestee chooses to escalate the situation to one requiring physical force, it's going to be very unpleasant for him from that point until he is completely restrained. There's just no other way it can work out.

Making the decision to escalate is really stupid--restraining a violent person without him doing harm is very difficult. Witness the incident where a man became violent on an airline flight and was inadvertently killed by the passengers as they attempted to restrain him.
 
I have to ask, only those who have formal instruction on mechanical restraints, to reply if this is proper arrest.

I received instruction from an Ottawa RCMP officer, who teaches for a living. Punching someone in the face is NEVER a viable tactic. The best explanation I've seen here so far is what Jim March said - that they were hoping he'd resist as an excuse to hit him, and hoping no-one would video-tape it.

To be fair, the officer on the left seems to be trying to do their job, and restrain their colleague at the same time.

For those wondering, the PROPER way to handcuff someone who is resting would be to say loudly, "GIVE ME YOUR HAND! GIVE ME YOUR HAND!" or some such, loudly, and then use joint manipulation and pressure-point pain compliance techniques, until they give you their hand. Then you stop the pain. In that suspect's position, the good pressure point to use is the one behind the jaw. Or she could have just increased pressure on his wrist-lock.


And anyone who gives the 'they had a tough day, they couldn't turn off their agression quickly' excuse, go become a defence lawyer and defend ALL scumbags, not just police ones, you have the character to do it.
 
I need to see the whole tape (if it even exists).

I seriously doubt the need for the shots to the face, but I'm not about to jump on the defense bandwagon since the guy was a crook.

Disturbing yes. I kinda wonder why people are standing by filming when one of them could have said "here, let me help" and held down his right arm. In CA, that's probably a charge unto itself I guess...

Half of me says I hope those power hungry pricks in LA get what they have coming to them, but thinking what they deal with every day softens my opinion as long as it's a crook that takes the beating. I'll never live there again, that's for sure... closest thing to a police state in the USA I'll testify to that.

The other half of me thinks the LAPD is full of it as a department. They need better training and/or a better PR department to protect their officers if they, indeed, use approved methods of force.

Do we even have any LA cops that post here? I seriously doubt it.
 
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