Fear Mongering and Marketing Strategy

[Deanimator]

this being about the only gun forum which does not allow SHTF or TEOTWAWKI type threads, and which tends to close "civil unrest" discussions with various suggestions that water, non-perishable food, required medications, sources of heat, etc. are much more important than firearms in the event of the breakdown of social order.

Just remember, without the means of retaining possession of those things BY FORCE, you're just collecting them for the first person who comes along to take them.

 

[Hugo]

I too think that the news (yes even ALL of the cable news channels) is getting a bit "Doom and Gloom" since they are competing heavily due to the 2012 Hysteria (dang that lousy movie with John Cusack). The Old phrase "It bleeds it leads" and the 24 hour news that does nothing but Hype, Hype, Tease, and over-hype more is getting pathetic. If he was alive, Edward R. Morrow would punch almost all reporters and talking heads on the news in the face (men and women) and strangle a few "experts" with his microphone cord for their tabloid journalism wrecking his hard work and sacrifice. Note: Nobody should actually attack reporters. If you ever get on camera (interview, man-on the street, debate, whatever) while they are being stupid, just laugh at them, and point out their idiocy since this will really hurt them and their shaky credibility.

Busting the 2012 hoax hype with standup science/comedy!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HghEBxHvgg

Also, aim for the middle of the "Paranoia vs. Ignorance" range and you find the often and easily forgotten concept of Moderation which is very flexible and effective. The supplies, training, and equipment for common disasters like tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and floods are also very useful in other situations. Situations like camping, hiking, self-defense, target & competition shooting, making a low budget movie or training film, and just-for-fun. How far you go with supplies, training, and equipment is up to you but more than "barely any" is much better than none.

 

[whanson_wi]

It worked to a point with my family. Unease got us to make a few trips shooting for familiarization, something that we hadn't done for a while. It reminded us of how much fun those trips are. That resulted in a few purchases, and an increase in the lead content of my hill. Now a week without shooting is a disappointment.

Fear-mongering was just a means to hook people on an enjoyable pastime. Color me snookered, and not regretting it a bit.

 

[Sam1911]

this being about the only gun forum which does not allow SHTF or TEOTWAWKI type threads, and which tends to close "civil unrest" discussions with various suggestions that water, non-perishable food, required medications, sources of heat, etc. are much more important than firearms in the event of the breakdown of social order.

Just remember, without the means of retaining possession of those things BY FORCE, you're just collecting them for the first person who comes along to take them.

Yes, of course, but also note that I mentioned "A Plan." Having a bunch of guns and ammo -- and with expertise and strategic thinking limited to blasting zombie targets at the range every once in a while, or printing bug-hole groups at 100 yds. off a bench -- is merely holding/hoarding even more stuff for the first person who wants it and has the ability to take it.

Having guns and ammo is not a strategy for defending your home/location and yourself/group. It isn't in daily self-defense, and it is even less so in times of elevated levels of social disorder.

 

[leadcounsel]

I think survivialism goes hand in hand with personal accountability which also ties in with gun ownership for self defense or hunting...

Contrast that with the opposite viewpoint- that of a .gov dependent victim mentality. These are the ones that wait to be rescued, have no plan for self preservation, and don't own guns.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

While my "survival" preparedness was mostly for being lost or injured a day or two in the woods (first aid kit in a M1 carbine ammo pouch on the belt, that sort of thing), there actually was a lot of unease in the 1950s.

I remember the CD (Civilian Defense) preparedness and "Duck and Cover" from the 1950s (I born 1948) plus the late 1940s, 1950s sci-fi genres of dystopias (1984, Fahrenheit 451) and invasions USA (Not This August) as well as the revolutions against Batista in Cuba and the Soviets in Hungary.

 

[mdauben]

I don't remember this kind of paranoid, survivalist thinking when I was growing up, and it is not to be found in the magazines of that time.

I'm not sure how old you may be, but I think the roots of the survivalist/prepper/ETOWAWKI movement reach back all the way to the late 40's early 50's, when the Cold War and nuclear weapons entered the public consciousness. I remember reading copies of popular magazines from that period in the local library which published do-it-yourself articles on building and stocking backyard fall-out shelters. Even as a child in the 60's I can still remember our grade school doing air raid drills, just like we did fire drills.

There were certainly 'end of the world' movies at least as far back as the 50's, with perhaps the most popular and well known being On the Beach although there were many other science fiction movies and books of the same theme.

Back in the 70's an author named Mel Tappan wrote a popular monthly column for Guns & Ammo magazine that discussed survival and guns. He may not have been the first, but he was the first I read of who discussed the use of guns not just for hunting or target practice, but as tools of long term survival and self-defense.

So, this isn't really something all that new. There may have been a minor resurgence in interest in the last few years, but its been around longer than most of us here on the forum have been.

 

[JFrame]

The SHTF folks are geniuses when S does HTF and they are lunatics when it doesn't. Personally, I think there is a middle ground.

- Water: About 8 years ago (+/- 1 year) in Phoenix, the entire metro area had what the local water company was calling "bacteria" in the water supply and we couldn't use the water for several days. Needless to say, there was a run on bottled water and we couldn't bath either. Those that had water stored in barrels were geniuses but not until we had an emergency. If it can happen in Phoenix it can happen in NY, LA, Seattle, Chicago, etc.... Lesson: Store some water and/or have some good water purifiers.


- Ammo: Many got caught short when the ammo shortage happened a couple of years back. Lesson: Buy a little extra ammo each month so that you have it when you need it. Dollar cost averaging is a good thing too.


- Food: Many people lost their jobs over the past few years and haven't been able to feed their familes. Lesson: Stock up on some food in good times just in case times go bad (and they almost always do).


I could continue with my examples but I won't. Extremes aren't healthy ... that includes those that prepare for TEOTWAWKI and those that prepare for nothing at all. Middle ground people ... learn from lessons that are in front of us and that are likely to happen (whatever they may be) and prepare for them. That includes 6-12 months of savings too.

You make a good case that the S can hit the F in many ways that don't entail an asteroid strike or an invasion by a Russian/Cuban alliance.

Now, I don't discount the possibility of just about anything happening -- a study of history shows that virtually anything is possible given the right dynamics and/or accident of circumstances -- but preparation for unforeseen events can be as low- or as high-intensity as the individual deems necessary.


.

 

[JFrame]

Ineresting that you should say that. Years ago I read this artical and it made a lot of sence to me. It says about the same thing and more.

http://www.survivalplus.com/defense/page0001.htm

The auther is Kurt Saxon who clames to have been the first to coin the term Survivalist.

As for not recalling the survival movement from the 80s? I recall a lot of survivalist mags and info in that time.

Survival Guide magazine
Survival (from the publisher of SOF)
American Survival Guide (Renaming of the first one)
Guns and Survival (once again from SOF if I recall corectly)
Guns and Ammo had a monthly Survival colum done by Mel Tappen

Books?
Alas Baybalon writen in 1951 I think
Lucifers Hammer (don't know the date on the rest of these)
The survivalist series
Out of the Ashes
and others.

Survivalist have been around a lot longer then many of us want to think. They have gone through a lot of differant changes and been asorbed by many differant groups. Anyone recall there being a big upsurge in Citizens Malitia's back in the 90s I think?

Just some random thoughts on it.
WB

Alas, Babylon is one of my all-time favorite novels!

It may be a bit dated, but it remains a crackling good read -- and it serves as sort of an introductory primer for opening one's perception to the concepts of prepping, being resourceful, pooling the available talents of a community, the types of knowledge that can come in handy, etc.

...And a 1911 government model and M-1 carbine play prominent roles! What more could a person want???


.

 

[dev_null]

End of the World, Millennialist thinking has been around a long time, and comes in cycles. Although most of the time it's been confined to "fringe" groups (so-called) like the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones' group, it has on occasion gone viral as they say, resulting in widespread hysteria like the Great Disappointment.

Much of it has been linked to our fascination with dates and numerology: just like the 2000's, there was a wave of it in 1000 and another smaller one in 1666. Nor is it limited to Christianity, as it goes way back in Buddhism, Hinduism, and others.

In the 20th century, even before the wave of post-nuclear paranoia that gave us so many End of the World stories and films (UFOs, nuclear holocaust, giant insects, Godzilla, runaway viruses, killer computers, killer robots, and of course zombies), there was Orson Welles' reading of HG Wells' The War of the Worlds.

In short, the end of the world has been predicted and prophesied many times, but has so far failed to materialize.

Have there been large-scale social upheavals? Yes.
Is it wise to weigh the odds for yourself and make your own decision as to how and how much to prepare for? Certainly.
Are cynical manufacturers and advertisers making a mint by manipulating your paranoia? IMO, yes.

 

[bthr22]

I'll buy all the firearms I feel like. Because I enjoy shooting them. I'll stockpile ammo. Because I hate having to go to the store on the way to the range and being limited on ammo for that trip because more just isn't in the budget. And if something desperate does happen, at least I'll have a decent choice of what to use. I have fun training for something that in all likeliness won't ever happen in my life time, but if it does, then at least my days of fun were for more than just fun as well

 

[flatlander937]

I think that as stated by many others... the fear mongering is largely being done by movies/media, and then kids and adults are playing some insanely out-there video games to the point that it's all they do(Modern Warfare is partly about fighting an attack on US soil, tons of Zombie shooting games, etc etc)... if they ever grow up and get into firearms, they are very likely to consider the stuff that they were using in the video games because it's (tacti)cool.

Then the marketing companies realize this is a very easily influenced part of the market, and make ads to target these people.

I don't know so much that companies are marketing that people should hoard tons and tons of ammo... but the Hornady Zombie ammo is just silly. It's strictly made for the people who are obsessed with all the zombie BS... I won't buy any because it's just overpriced marketing crap.


FWIW I am not going to stockpile or hoard anything... I'll keep maybe 100 rounds of 45ACP around for my 1911, and as of yet I haven't even had a chance to shoot my Mosin so I have nothing for it. When I buy some more guns in different calibers, I'll probably keep about 100 rounds for each one on hand, but it will be for home invasion/legitimate "might need to use it" reasons.

I buy everything strictly because it's fun and/or I like it and/or has some historical significance. I'm not going to buy something crazy just for the end of the world... that's like buying your own coffin.

I think that an economic collapse situation is a lot more likely than the zombie deal... but that's like comparing the rarity of finding a unicorn vs a pot a gold.

 

[JFrame]

On the issue of "having enough ammo" -- I don't know how much the Korean store-owners in South Central L.A. had during the rioting, but they evidently expended a lot (from what I understand, they were shooting to keep looters at bay, not to actually hit anyone). Again, from what I've heard, their ammo supply got so low that they had to reach out over the Korean radio air-waves to the Korean community, requesting resupplies of ammo.

I'm guessing these store-owners stock more ammo than they did previously...



.

 

[devans0]

The survivalists view realistically can show a POV into the natural disaster coping. A few years ago my family was hit by a big flood. The refugee centers turned us away from being too full, banks and credit unions were flooded, ATMs didn't work. In short, for several weeks we were drilled with a sharp pointed bolt thingy. When we were finally allowed back in, we had no water, electricity, heat, sewer, and worst of all, NO INTERNET!

What saved our behinds was an earlier frivolous purchase of a clean electricity producing generator and some camping stuff and some basic carpentry power tools. Looting did happen. After paying price gouging prices for plumbing and rewiring, (building codes were upgraded to upgrade our community) copper thieves ripped out wiring and pipes that cost $15,000 to install, to get $20 of scrap. Insurance excludes those losses, we had to eat them. Note that by looters, I'm talking about the scrappers and the price gougers, and political rule makers.

The SHTF and Teowaki-ist that look at what really happens, stock up on screws, cordless electric drills, saws with several types of blades, and some locks and chains. Zombie guns are expensive macho toys, a sales gimmick. Now a good hunting rifle or shotgun is a whole better thread. FWIW, My next buy will be a boon-docking truck camper, but that is a different forum.

 

[carbuncle]

Aside from food, camping gear and tools my SHTF selections would be a pump-action shotgun, a bolt-action rifle and a revolver, probably .22 for the handgun. Having been through a bad hurricane and an earthquake, I've seen what real SHTF is like and I'm not worried about zombies or a Russian invasion...

 

[blarby]

Please to not continue with the scenarios and their remedies ?

Thats what'll get this thread locked

Some of us are still meandering about the OP, thanks

 

[guyfromohio]

FYI.... if you get by the name, Z-max ammo is good stuff and is the cheapest high-end SD ammo I've found.

 

[SARDiver]

Of course there are those who take things to extremes, but I do think there is a legitimate side to being prepared for "SHTF" events, even though they are few and far between. Events like the LA Riots, Katrina, and the tornadoes in Alabama are things that do happen and people should be prepared for. For example after the tornadoes last year, a town about an hour north of me was put under a sundown to sunrise curfew with the National Guard in combat gear on the streets to try and deal with looting.

Now things like this don't require 500 different guns and sniper rifles with 25,000 rounds of ammo for each, but I don't think that one or two ARs, AKs, or FALs (depending on your preference) is a bad thing. A few concealable pistols here or there is also a good idea as well. Hell, how many people here espouse the merits of the 5.56/.223 round for home defense? Most guns chambered for that round fall in the AR category.

Ammo wise, I agree, don't hoard ammo that you won't use. Then again, if I'm routinely taking shooting classes where it is expected to shoot 1,000-1,500 rounds throughout the course of the multi day class, having say, 5,000 rounds at home means you don't have to go out and buy ammo right before the class adding $200-300 to the total price of the class. Or if you're a competitive shooter who goes through 250 rounds per range trip and go to the range 3 or more times a week, having a good stock of ammo at home means you don't have to go out and buy ammo every week (and lets you take advantage of volume discounts).

I think its pretty stupid for someone to buy a gun for "strictly SHTF" and never take it out to use and play/train with. If you don't practice using it and know how to use it effectively, its going to be useless. The knock off aimpoint might fail after 3 days, or some other part of your gear may fail. An emergency is not the time to be realizing "I have no clue how to do this". (I'm a firm believer in training with your weapons every chance you can get if you can't tell )

I couldn't agree more. I'm in that area north of Birmingham that was hit very hard by those tornadoes. I never saw the NG and am not sure exactly where they were (Decatur, maybe?), but we were on our own for a week. I don't stockpile weapons, but I do have several handguns that I either compete with or have secured in various locations for HD. Having extra handguns came in...handy, if you'll pardon me, when I was able to equip some very good neighbors with the means to defend themselves. I got bottled water (badly needed), tarps, and help with the clean up to my damaged home...not out of obligation or trade, but because we looked out for each other.

We had absolutely no idea whether looting would occur in our area, and I went to bed every night with a Benelli and a handgun where I could get to them. Had a band of more than five or ten come calling, there was an AR I had access to. We didn't have civil unrest in large part because people WERE generally armed (and told by the Madison County SO that we would not be arrested for defending ourselves) and because outside agencies were trying to get to resources to assist. (We were in pretty good shape and needed no help.) If someday the government is unable to assist those who have come to depend on it, and I think this is becoming more likely, we will have a problem.

Do I think some people go overboard? Yeah. Do some companies take advantage of that? Yep. I also see ads for people who think they need a tool to press hamburger patties into the right shape, so it's tough for me to blame the companies for trying to sell something that I think is unnecessary. If people want to buy them, so be it.

 

[we are not amused]

Interesting topic. I am surprised that the Original poster was unaware of the survivalist movement of the fifties, but back then it was known as Civil Defense, before the whiz kids of Kennedy's and Johnson's Administration decided the civil defense was "confrontational", and decided that we must use our civilian population as hostages to the Soviets. (As if the soviets cared about our civilian population)

Several books have been mentioned, I would add Farnhams Freehold, by Robert Heinlein.

Not only were Public fall out shelters available at the time, but private fallout shelters were common and plans widely circulated. Then the Government decided that protecting the Civilian Population was a bad idea and the whole Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD, very appropriate acronym) concept became the National War Plan.

Guns weren't a big part of preparedness then, food, water and shelter were, but then the Nation was full or people who had served in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, and people like my Father who were experienced combat veterans were not likely to not have guns. For that matter, groups like the American Legion were active in procuring military weapons for it's members. Anyone who was interested in survival back then automatically included weapons as a part of it.

There was another resurgence of survivalism in the late Seventies, when the prospect of a weak American President, (Jimmy Carter) and an aggressive Soviet Union made the Prospect of Nuclear War more likely.

 

[BSA1]

The best part about remember the past is remembering it they way I what it, not how it really was.

greenriver your view of the 50's and 60's is considerably different than what it really was. As others have already commented on there was the spread of communism, MADD, the Cuban missle crisis which brought us a eyelash of nuclear war, etc.

In 2001 we were reminded on live TV that terrorists could attack the homeland and kill thousands of Americans along with millions of dollars in property damage.

Polls show the majority of Americans have lost faith in Congress and the President.

We have a political party that is constantly trying to restrict our gun rights.

We have a President who is a avowed Marxist and doubts about his citzenship and background.

We have seen the fury of Mother Nature and how easy civil authories are overwhelmed; New Orleans, Goodland, KS, Joplin, MO. We have seen how fragile our power grid is and how much our society is disrupted without power.

Thanks to the Internet we can get our information from other sources than the government control print and TV media.

By your yardstick I am a hoarder, extremist and NRA member. Not only do I have guns and ammunition but I am stockpiling enough food for at least two weeks. We raise chickens for eggs and have a veggie garden.

In spite of my old-fashion mid-western belief of self-reliance I do not get on the Internet and sit in judgment about how you choose to live your life. All I ask is the same from you.

 

[huntsman]

I don't remember this kind of paranoid, survivalist thinking when I was growing up, and it is not to be found in the magazines of that time.

Gun Digest 1984 four features on Assault Weapons and Survival

FWIW I first read Lucifer’s Hammer back in the late 70’s and it’s a very good read still today.

 

[medalguy]

I can still remember my uncle, who had a lot more money than we did, building a new house with a large bomb shelter under it, complete with ventilation system and deep-water well and an off-grid power system run by a large generator complete with its own underground fuel tank.

My dad simply put a few extra groceries in our basement and bought several new large metal garbage cans and filled them with water inside plastic liners. We figured we'd do the best we could when the bombs fell.

Was that really all that much different from the end-of-the-world folks today considering the amount of money available to people today? Hey, if you want to stock your basement with two years' worth of food, go ahead. Next hurricane you will have the best-fed family on the block.

As far as guns go, no we didn't have a large collection/stockpile of guns years ago, but then, we couldn't afford one either. Today I own a lot more guns than my father ever thought of owning. The purpose of the collection is not to fight off the zombies (zombies-- really guys???) but because I enjoy shooting and military history.

 

[Hocka Louis]

"We have been fooled into spending thousands of dollars to purchase guns for imagined realities that do not exist,"

The premise of the thread is false. To ignore the global and U.S. socio-economic dangers as well as threats from enemies foreign and domestic since 9-11 if not 11/2008 is myopic, at best. The members and citizens you criticize here for recognizing and reacting to the issues is demeaning. It was a bottom-up insight, not a top-down sales and marketing ploy in my, and buying Americans', opinions. Your reflection of the timing of events is even off.

 

[Ky Larry]

Let's see. Just off the top of my head, I remember scares about:

Reds and Creeping Communism
SARS
A.I.D.S.
Ebola
Strontiun-90
Berlin Wall
Cuban Missles
The Missle Gap
The Bomber Gap
Y2K
Recessions
Depressions
Tylenol
Breast Implants
Mad Cow Disease
Saccharin
Cranberries
Over Population
Under Population
Toxic Shock
Alar
Cell Phone Brain Tumors

The great H.L.Mencken once wrote: " The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." I don't think they're "all" imaginary, by most are. Personally, I've been "scared" and "terrorized" to point of just about being numb.

 

[Sam1911]

"We must not allow a mine shaft gap!"



We seem to be going nowhere at this point. Yes there are risks. No they dont usually turn out to be as serious as they could have been. Yes it makes sense to be generally "prepared" for things to be strange for whatever reason. No guns are not the most important part of such preparations. Yes, guns are AN important part of preparation...but most of us are probably prepared on that front to a level that far outstrips our preparedness levels in other crucial areas.

No, we still don't do TEOTWAWKI threads, and that is pretty much all we've got here.