Federal court rules against arbitrary suspension of habeas corpus

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foob

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Just thought everybody should know somebody cares about the constitution. Doesn't even look like he's a citizen.

If you support the indefinite detention of a US resident just because the President labels him an "enemy combatant", just remember one day when they come for your firearms they can use the same excuse.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070611/ap_on_re_us/enemy_combatant

Court rules in favor of enemy combatant

By ZINIE CHEN SAMPSON, Associated Press Writer 24 minutes ago

RICHMOND, Va. - The Bush administration cannot legally detain a U.S. resident it believes is an al-Qaida sleeper agent without charging him, a divided federal appeals court ruled Monday. The court said sanctioning the indefinite detention of civilians would have "disastrous consequences for the constitution — and the country."

In the 2-1 decision, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel found that the federal Military Commissions Act doesn't strip Ali al-Marri, a legal U.S. resident, of his constitutional rights to challenge his accusers in court.

It ruled the government must allow al-Marri to be released from military detention.

Al-Marri has been held in solitary confinement in the Navy brig in Charleston, S.C., since June 2003. The Qatar native has been detained since his December 2001 arrest at his home in Peoria, Ill., where he moved with his wife and five children a day before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to study for a master's degree.

"To sanction such presidential authority to order the military to seize and indefinitely detain civilians, even if the President calls them 'enemy combatants,' would have disastrous consequences for the constitution — and the country," the court panel said.

Al-Marri's lawyers argued that the Military Commissions Act, passed last fall to establish military trials after a
U.S. Supreme Court ruling, doesn't repeal the writ of habeas corpus — defendants' traditional right to challenge their detention.

This is a breaking news update. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — The Bush administration cannot legally detain an immigrant it believes is an al-Qaida sleeper agent without charging him, a divided federal appeals court ruled Monday.

In the 2-1 decision, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel found that the federal Military Commissions Act doesn't strip Ali al-Marri of his constitutional rights to challenge his accusers in court. It ruled the government must allow him to be released from military detention.
 
I'll probably get in trouble with what I am about to say, but it is good to see the Constitution upheld for a change. I have faith in the investigative agencies in the U.S. and just to incarcerate a person because it is believed that person is involved in something illegal or to use an arbitrary label is, in my estimation, unconscionable, especially since he IS a U.S. citizen. If he was a threat to national security, there has been more than ample time to bring charges.

Now illegal aliens are another matter entirely. Illegal aliens SHOULD NOT be afforded our Constitutional protections in matters of U.S. security. If they want that protection, then they best get busy and become a citizen AFTER LEGALLY ENTERING THE U.S.

Just my $0.02 worth.
 
I'm glad, too.

There have to be limits to Executive power, and it's up to the court to make sure of that.
 
Yeah,

Why are they housing these suspects for years with no charge when they could be illegally surveilling and wire-tapping them like ordinary Americans.
 
Why are they housing these suspects for years with no charge when they could be illegally surveilling and wire-tapping them like ordinary Americans.

:D lol
 
Such a ruling deserves a little more play.

http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/067427.P.pdf

DIANA GRIBBON MOTZ, Circuit Judge:
For over two centuries of growth and struggle, peace and war,
the Constitution has secured our freedom through the guarantee
that, in the United States, no one will be deprived of liberty
without due process of law. Yet more than four years ago military
authorities seized an alien lawfully residing here. He has been
held by the military ever since -- without criminal charge or
process. He has been so held despite the fact that he was
initially taken from his home in Peoria, Illinois by civilian
authorities, and indicted for purported domestic crimes. He has
been so held although the Government has never alleged that he is
a member of any nation’s military, has fought alongside any
nation’s armed forces, or has borne arms against the United States
anywhere in the world. And he has been so held, without
acknowledgment of the protection afforded by the Constitution,
solely because the Executive believes that his military detention
is proper.
While criminal proceedings were underway against Ali Saleh
Kahlah al-Marri, the President ordered the military to seize and
detain him indefinitely as an enemy combatant. Since that order,
issued in June of 2003, al-Marri has been imprisoned without charge
in a military jail in South Carolina. Al-Marri petitions for a
writ of habeas corpus to secure his release from military
imprisonment. The Government defends this detention, asserting
5
that al-Marri associated with al Qaeda and “prepar[ed] for acts of
international terrorism.” It maintains that the President has both
statutory and inherent constitutional authority to subject al-Marri
to indefinite military detention and, in any event, that a new
statute -- enacted years after al-Marri’s seizure -- strips federal
courts of jurisdiction even to consider this habeas petition.
We hold that the new statute does not apply to al-Marri, and
so we retain jurisdiction to consider his petition. Furthermore,
we conclude that we must grant al-Marri habeas relief. Even
assuming the truth of the Government’s allegations, the President
lacks power to order the military to seize and indefinitely detain
al-Marri. If the Government accurately describes al-Marri’s
conduct, he has committed grave crimes. But we have found no
authority for holding that the evidence offered by the Government
affords a basis for treating al-Marri as an enemy combatant, or as
anything other than a civilian.
This does not mean that al-Marri must be set free. Like
others accused of terrorist activity in this country, from the
Oklahoma City bombers to the surviving conspirator of the September
11th attacks, al-Marri can be returned to civilian prosecutors,
tried on criminal charges, and, if convicted, punished severely.
But the Government cannot subject al-Marri to indefinite military
detention. For in the United States, the military cannot seize and
imprison civilians -- let alone imprison them indefinitely.
6
I.
Al-Marri, a citizen of Qatar, lawfully entered the United
States with his wife and children on September 10, 2001, to pursue
a master’s degree at Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, where
he had obtained a bachelor’s degree in 1991. The following day,
terrorists hijacked four commercial airliners and used them to kill
and inflict grievous injury on thousands of Americans. Three
months later, on December 12, 2001, FBI agents arrested al-Marri at
his home in Peoria as a material witness in the Government’s
investigation of the September 11th attacks. Al-Marri was
imprisoned in civilian jails in Peoria and then New York City.
In February 2002, al-Marri was charged in the Southern
District of New York with the possession of unauthorized or
counterfeit credit-card numbers with the intent to defraud. A year
later, in January 2003, he was charged in a second, six-count
indictment, with two counts of making a false statement to the FBI,
three counts of making a false statement on a bank application, and
one count of using another person’s identification for the purpose
of influencing the action of a federally insured financial
institution. Al-Marri pleaded not guilty to all of these charges.
In May 2003, a federal district court in New York dismissed the
charges against al-Marri for lack of venue.
The Government then returned al-Marri to Peoria and he was reindicted
in the Central District of Illinois on the same seven
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counts, to which he again pleaded not guilty. The district court
set a July 21, 2003 trial date. On Friday, June 20, 2003, the
court scheduled a hearing on pre-trial motions, including a motion
to suppress evidence against al-Marri assertedly obtained by
torture. On the following Monday, June 23, before that hearing
could be held, the Government moved ex parte to dismiss the
indictment based on an order signed that morning by the President.
In the order, President George W. Bush stated that he
“DETERMINE[D] for the United States of America that” al-Marri: (1)
is an enemy combatant; (2) is closely associated with al Qaeda; (3)
“engaged in conduct that constituted hostile and war-like acts,
including conduct in preparation for acts of international
terrorism;” (4) “possesses intelligence . . . that . . . would aid
U.S. efforts to prevent attacks by al Qaeda;” and (5) “represents
a continuing, present, and grave danger to the national security of
the United States.” The President determined that al-Marri’s
detention by the military was “necessary to prevent him from aiding
al Qaeda” and thus ordered the Attorney General to surrender al-
Marri to the Secretary of Defense, and the Secretary of Defense to
“detain him as an enemy combatant.”
The federal district court in Illinois granted the
Government’s motion to dismiss the criminal indictment against al-
Marri. In accordance with the President’s order, al-Marri was then
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transferred to military custody and brought to the Naval
Consolidated Brig in South Carolina.

Note that the court does not call for his release, merely that he should not be held without charge as the executive does not have that power. This is in my mind a very correct ruling.
 
And the dissent op...

HUDSON, District Judge, dissenting:
I regret that I am unable to concur in the majority opinion,
except to the extent that I agree that this Court has jurisdiction
over this appeal. Although I do not embrace all aspects of the
majority’s jurisdictional reasoning, I agree that Section 7 of the
Military Commission Act of 2006 (MCA) does not divest this Court of
its constitutional jurisdiction, under Article I, Section 9,to
review habeas corpus decisions involving individual detainees
within the United States. See Hamdi v. Rumsfeld,542 U.S. 507, 525,
124 S. Ct. 2633, 2644 (2004). The MCA may, however, foreclose a
right of statutory review. Beyond the jurisdictional question, the
majority and I part company.
While I commend the majority on a thoroughly researched and
impressively written opinion, I must conclude that their analysis
flows from a faulty predicate. In my view, the appellant was
properly designated as an enemy combatant by the President of the
United States pursuant to the war powers vested in him by Articles
I and II of the United States Constitution and by Congress under
the Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF). See Hamdi v.
Rumsfeld, 296 F.3d 278, 281–82 (4th Cir. 2002).1 I am also of the
the United States.” Hamdi, 542 U.S. at 526, 124 S. Ct. at 2645
(internal quotation marks omitted).
The boundaries of activity qualifying for “enemy combatant”
status staked out in Hamdi were not meant to be immutable. The
obvious impact of the limiting language was to confine the court’s
holding to the immediate facts before them.
While al-Marri was not captured while armed in a formal
theater of war, the evidence would certainly support the conclusion
that he was actively supporting forces hostile to the United States
— and that the forces he was supporting were actively engaged in
armed conflict against the United States.
Given the unconventional nature of the conflict that the
United States is engaged in with al Qaeda, the exact definitions of
“enemy combatants” and “enemy belligerents” are difficult to
conceptualize and apply with precision.
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opinion that al-Marri has received all due process entitlements
prescribed by existing United States Supreme Court precedent. I
would therefore vote to affirm the district court’s dismissal of
al-Marri’s Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus.
The wellspring of the majority’s reasoning is the notion that
a non-military person arrested on U.S. soil, outside the zone of
battle, for providing active aid to the enemy at time of war,
cannot be declared an enemy combatant and detained for the duration
of the hostilities, but must be prosecuted in the civilian courts
of the United States. In fact, the majority would even go further
and find that the language of the AUMF does not include
organizations, such as al Qaeda, that are not affiliated with
recognized nation states. The clear congressional intent
underlying the AUMF was to afford the President of the United
States all the powers necessary to suppress those individuals or
organizations responsible for the terrorist attack on September 11,
80
2001. This broad language would certainly seem to embrace
surreptitious al Qaeda agents operating within the continental
United States. The AUMF provided as follows:
[T]he President is authorized to use all necessary and
appropriate force against those nations, organizations,
or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed,
or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September
11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in
order to prevent any future acts of international
terrorism against the United States by such nations,
organizations or persons.
Pub. L. No. 107–40, § 2(a), 115 Stat. 224, 224 (2001) (emphasis
added). History has proven that al Qaeda, an international
terrorist organization with which the United States is at war,
falls squarely within that definition. See Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 316
F.3d 450, 459 (4th Cir. 2003), vacated and remanded on other
grounds, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507, 124 S. Ct. 2633 (2004).
Central to the majority’s analysis is the locus of his arrest.
Unlike the petitioners in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507, 124 S.
Ct. 2633 (2004), and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, 126 S. Ct. 2749 (2006),
al-Marri is a lawful resident alien who was not taken into custody
in a battle zone. He was arrested in Peoria, Illinois, where he
was residing on a student visa. Despite powerful evidence of his
connection to al Qaeda, the majority believe the President is
without power to declare him an enemy combatant. They believe he
must be indicted and tried for crimes against the United States.
Although definitive precedent is admittedly sparse, in my opinion,
this position is unsupported by the weight of persuasive authority.
81
In Padilla v. Hanft, 423 F.3d 386 (4th Cir. 2005), a panel of
this Court unanimously rejected the argument that the locus of
capture was relevant to the President’s authority to detain an
enemy combatant. See id. at 394. Padilla, a U.S. citizen, was
arrested by FBI agents upon his arrival at O’Hare International
Airport in Chicago, Illinois. Id. at 388. A close associate of al
Qaeda, Padilla had been “armed and present in a combat zone during
armed conflict between al Qaeda/Taliban forces and the armed forces
of the United States.” Id. at 390 (internal quotation marks
omitted). Moreover, “Padilla met with Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, a
senior al Qaeda operations planner, who directed Padilla to travel
to the United States for the purpose of blowing up apartment
buildings, in continued prosecution of al Qaeda’s war of terror
against the United States.” Id.
This Court in Padilla reversed the holding of the district
court that the President lacked authority under the AUMF to detain
Padilla, and that Padilla must be either criminally prosecuted or
released. Id. With respect to Padilla’s argument that the
circumstances of his detention mandated only the option of criminal
prosecution, this Court noted:
. . . We are convinced, in any event, that the
availability of criminal process cannot be determinative
of the power to detain, if for no other reason than that
criminal prosecution may well not achieve the very
purpose for which detention is authorized in the first
place—the prevention of return to the field of battle.
Equally important, in many instances criminal prosecution
would impede the Executive in its efforts to gather
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intelligence from the detainee and to restrict the
detainee’s communication with confederates so as to
ensure that the detainee does not pose a continuing
threat to national security even as he is
confined—impediments that would render military detention
not only an appropriate, but also the necessary, course
of action to be taken in the interest of national
security.
Id. at 394–95.
Military detention during time of war and criminal prosecution
serve discrete functions. The object of criminal prosecution is to
punish for legal transgression. The purpose of military detention
is to immobilize the enemy during hostilities. Hamdi, 542 U.S. at
518, 124 S. Ct. at 2640. Such detention is also intended “to
prevent the captured individual from serving the enemy.” In re
Territo, 156 F.2d 142, 145 (9th Cir. 1946).
The only significant fact that distinguishes the justification
for Padilla’s detention from that of al-Marri is that Padilla at
some previous point in time had been armed and present in a combat
zone. There was no indication, however, that Padilla was ever a
soldier in a formal sense, particularly while acting on U.S. soil.
Like Padilla, al-Marri, an identified al Qaeda associate, was
dispatched to the United States by the September mastermind as a
“sleeper agent” and to explore computer hacking methods to disrupt
the United States’ financial system. Moreover, al-Marri volunteered
for a martyr mission on behalf of al Qaeda, received funding from
a known terrorist financier, and communicated with known terrorists
by phone and e-mail. Decl. of Jeffrey N. Rapp, Director, Joint
2Al-Marri not only failed to offer any evidence on his behalf,
he refused to even participate in the initial evidentiary process.
Al-Marri, 443 F. Supp. 2d at 785.
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Intelligence Task Force for Combating Terrorism, ¶ 7, Sept. 9, 2004.
It is also interesting to note that al-Marri arrived in the United
States on September 10, 2001. Id.
The district court in this case credited the Declaration of
Rapp, which was unrebutted, and found by a preponderance of the
evidence, that al-Marri had been properly classified and detained
as an enemy combatant. See Al-Marri v. Wright, 443 F. Supp. 2d 774,
784 (D.S.C. 2006).2
The standard employed by the district court to determine al-
Marri’s qualifications for enemy combatant status was analogous to
that invoked by the United States Supreme Court in Ex Parte Quirin,
317 U.S. 1, 63 S. Ct. 2 (1942). In Quirin, the Court explained,
[E]ntry upon our territory in time of war by enemy
belligerents, including those acting under the direction
of the armed forces of the enemy for the purpose of
destroying property used or useful in prosecuting the
war, is a hostile and war-like act. . . .
. . . .
. . . Citizens who associate themselves with the
military arm of the enemy government, and with its aid,
guidance and direction enter this country bent on hostile
acts are enemy belligerents within the meaning of . . .
the law of war. . . .
Id. at 36–38. The Quirin Court further provided that “t is
without significance that petitioners were not alleged to have
borne conventional weapons or that their proposed hostile acts did
3Just as mere presence is not sufficient to make one a part of
a criminal conspiracy or an accomplice to a crime, I agree with the
majority that mere association with al Qaeda or an organization
that supports al Qaeda does not necessarily make one an enemy
combatant. See Milligan, 71 U.S. at 131 (stating that “f in
Indiana [Milligan] conspired with bad men to assist the enemy, he
is punishable for it in the courts of Indiana”). This is not a
case, however, of mere association. Al-Marri trained with and
became an agent of al Qaeda and, operating under its guidance and
direction, entered the United States on September 10, 2001, “for
the purpose of engaging in and facilitating terrorist activities
84
not necessarily contemplate collision with the Armed Forces of the
United States.” Id. at 37. “Nor are petitioners any the less
belligerents if, as they argue, they have not actually committed or
attempted to commit any act of depredation or entered the theatre
or zone of active military operations.” Id. at 38.
Ex Parte Milligan, 71 U.S. 2 (1866), does not undermine the
district court’s decision. Milligan did not associate himself with
a rebellious State with which the United States was at war. See
Milligan, 71 U.S. at 131; Quirin, 317 U.S. at 45, 63 S. Ct. at 19
(noting that the Court in Milligan “concluded that Milligan [was]
not . . . a part of or associated with the armed forces of the
enemy”). In this case, the unrebutted evidence shows that al-Marri
associated himself with and became an agent of al Qaeda, the
organization targeted by the AUMF and the enemy with which the
United States is at war. See Rapp Decl. ¶ 7 (“Al-Marri is an al
Qaeda ‘sleeper agent’ . . . was trained at an al Qaeda terror camp
. . . met personally with Usama Bin Laden . . . and volunteered for
a martyr mission.”).3 As noted above, it is without significance
subsequent to September 11,” the very activities that the AUMF was
intended to prevent. Rapp Decl. ¶ 7; see AUMF § 2(a).
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that al Marri did not himself carry a conventional weapon in a zone
of active military operations. See Quirin, 317 U.S. at 37–38.
In Hamdi, the Supreme Court considered the due process
requirements for a citizen being held in the United States as an
enemy combatant. See Hamdi, 542 U.S. at 509, 124 S. Ct. at 2635.
Hamdi was an American citizen captured in Afghanistan for allegedly
taking up arms with the Taliban in a combat zone. Id. at 510, 124
S. Ct. at 2635. Like al-Marri, Hamdi was being detained at the
Naval Brig in Charleston, South Carolina. Id. at 510, 124 S. Ct.
2636. After applying a balancing of interest calculus, the Court
observed, “a citizen-detainee seeking to challenge his
classification as an enemy combatant must receive notice of the
factual basis for his classification, and a fair opportunity to
rebut the Government’s factual assertions before a neutral
decisionmaker.” Hamdi, 542 U.S. at 533, 124 S. Ct. at 2648. “It
is equally fundamental that the right to notice and an opportunity
to be heard must be granted at a meaningful time and in a
meaningful manner.” Id. at 533, 124 S. Ct. at 2649 (internal
quotation marks omitted).
After upholding the power of the President to detain al-Marri
under the AUMF, the district court, after providing him with all
due process entitlements articulated in Hamdi, found that his
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continued detention as an enemy combatant was proper and dismissed
his petition. See Al-Marri, 443 F. Supp. 2d at 785. In addition,
al-Marri was represented by counsel at all stages of the
proceedings below.
I believe the district court correctly concluded that the
President had the authority to detain al-Marri as an enemy
combatant or belligerent. Although al-Marri was not personally
engaged in armed conflict with U.S. forces, he is the type of
stealth warrior used by al Qaeda to perpetrate terrorist acts
against the United States. Al-Marri’s detention is authorized
under the AUMF “to prevent any future acts of international
terrorism against the United States.” AUMF § 2(a). Furthermore,
setting aside the amorphous distinction between an “enemy
combatant” and an “enemy belligerent,” there is little doubt from
the evidence that al-Marri was present in the United States to aid
and further the hostile and subversive activities of the
organization responsible for the terrorist attacks that occurred on
September 11, 2001.
I therefore vote to affirm the district court.


What we are talking about here is likely a very, very bad man. Still does not mean that he does not have rights.
 
What we are talking about here is likely a very, very bad man.

Yes. See, that's why I can't get as animated about some of this stuff as a lot of the BDS sufferers, including Libertarians. I actually do think that the intent of these detentions is a good intent. I do think that the Executive Branch has its heart in the right place, and I do not believe that I see some runaway abuse of power for power's sake, nor for political ends. Mistakes, biases, sure, but there hasn't been an administration since 1787 without these inevitable human characteristics.

Still does not mean that he does not have rights.

Hell, I don't really care about HIS rights. He probably has the right to a hanging.

HOWEVER, this stuff needs to be spelled out so that the potential for abuse -- and it's a huge potential -- can be limited. All of our rights must be protected, and in this case, that requires protecting his, such as they are.

We can't always rely on government officials to have their hearts in the right place. Many do, especially when it comes to national security. But it wouldn't take many to destroy our whole system, without checks, balances and limits.
 
Judge Gribbon is an anti-Bush liberal. She has voted down the partial birth ban in VA, invoking the name of higher powers at town meetings and other such rulings.

I think the dissent is better written than the majority, but I still agree with the decision even if the premise is not the best.

I do think that the Executive Branch has its heart in the right place, and I do not believe that I see some runaway abuse of power for power's sake, nor for political ends.

Bear- The run away power abuse comes later. This is what I have problems getting people to understand. Pres. Bush I think means well and his intentions are likely good. The issue is what about the next guy? or Girl? Think they will care what he was doing or why? Very unlikely I say. They will say; "hey look I have a new toy what can I do with it?"
 
I'm curious what you could possibly gain from keeping someone locked up and isolated that long? Aside from the obvious reason that you screwed up and he really isn't a terrorist and you don't want that fact to get out. Dead men tell no tales after all, apparently neither do those held indefinately in military isolation.

I have no idea whether the guy is a terrorist or not. If he is why not charge him and convict him? Or, are we no longer a country of laws and justice? The whole "enemy combatant" things stinks of imperialism. I believ there are terrorists in this country, both foreign and domestic. I also believe they should be brought to justice and I fail to see how that has been accomplished in this case. Anyone?

The more I read about this situation and others the less I like it. It goes against everything this country stands for. If we abandon the founding principles of this country in the name of the GWOT then what really is left to fight for?


I.C.
 
If you support the indefinite detention of a US resident just because the President labels him an "enemy combatant", just remember one day when they come for your firearms they can use the same excuse.

Not likely since I am not a resident alien (which is the defining word apparently left out of the the "US resident" description above).
 
Judge Gribbon is an anti-Bush liberal.
...well, based on what I've seen from Bush, and what I've read in the Constitution, I'd say that's probably true of the Framers, too.
She has voted down the partial birth ban in VA...
...which ban is within the enumerated powers...how?
 
I have no doubt that the man held is a terrorist. However, you still have the right to fair trial, even if you are evil. This is a big win for the Sixth Amendment.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
 
Let's give him a fair and speedy trial and then hang him outside the courthouse.
All legit and aboveboard.
Or we could grant him the gift of being punished according to Islamic Law and Just behead him.
Coat him in Lard first so he has NO chance at Paradise of course.
Fight Religion with Religion

Jefferson
 
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Flyboy: All I am saying is that she may have done the right thing for the wrong reasons. I think the ruling is weak. And should have gone into more on the constitutional protections instead of the status and location of the person. It is hard to argue this point:

The wellspring of the majority’s reasoning is the notion that
a non-military person arrested on U.S. soil, outside the zone of
battle, for providing active aid to the enemy at time of war,
cannot be declared an enemy combatant and detained for the duration
of the hostilities, but must be prosecuted in the civilian courts
of the United States. In fact, the majority would even go further
and find that the language of the AUMF does not include
organizations, such as al Qaeda, that are not affiliated with
recognized nation states. The clear congressional intent
underlying the AUMF was to afford the President of the United
States all the powers necessary to suppress those individuals or
organizations responsible for the terrorist attack on September 11,
2001. This broad language would certainly seem to embrace
surreptitious al Qaeda agents operating within the continental
United States.

To say that he is not combatant because he was found in the US without a uniform or clear ties to the organization in question is weak at best. The law itself should be thrown out or broadly rewritten.

The founding fathers had an answer for those who supported the British during the war; they expelled them.

I'm curious what you could possibly gain from keeping someone locked up and isolated that long?

Why indeed? What is worse to die a martyr for your cause and go to paradise or to remain in prison until you lose control of your bowels and then die anyway?
 
Titan6 tossed this into the ether:
Why indeed? What is worse to die a martyr for your cause and go to paradise or to remain in prison until you lose control of your bowels and then die anyway?

Which I would be perfectly fine with had he been tried and convicted. Perhaps the question to be asked is why is the government afraid to put him on trial? See your logic fails that point. If he is a terrorist put him on trial, convict him, and punish him. Whether they be put to death, imprisoned for life, or some other suitable measure matters not to me.

There is nothing legitimate to gain by keeping someone locked in isolation for 5 years without a trial. Though I am quite eager to hear you try to justify it. You either believe in the founding principles of this country or you don't belong in it. That goes for everyone as far as I'm concerned.
 
Calm- Easy big guy.

There is nothing legitimate to gain by keeping someone locked in isolation for 5 years without a trial. Though I am quite eager to hear you try to justify it.

Not a chance of that. My only concern is that the court decision was not strong enough and might get overturned on appeal. I was just offering a possible reason for why somone might be locked in a dark hole forever not a justification.
 
Not likely since I am not a resident alien (which is the defining word apparently left out of the the "US resident" description above).

Er... Jose Padilla is a citizen. He also got indefinite detention until recently. The declaring of somebody as an enemy combatant has no restriction on nationality or location of arrest.
 
I actually do think that the intent of these detentions is a good intent. I do think that the Executive Branch has its heart in the right place, and I do not believe that I see some runaway abuse of power for power's sake, nor for political ends. Mistakes, biases, sure, but there hasn't been an administration since 1787 without these inevitable human characteristics.


Whether or not the Executive branch has its "heart in the right place" or not is really irrelevant. The constitution and concepts such as Habeus corpus were concieved and made part of our fundamental principles to prevent abuse of power, whether the abuse being perpetrated is malevolent and for nefarious purpose or of a benevolent protective nature is not and should never be a factor.

The basic facts are that this man is being held against his will. If he has committed a crime the government must charge him with it, try him and let the facts dictate the outcome. It should not matter what his race, religion, belief or crime is. If we allow any exception to the principles of Habeas corpus we open the gates to a hellish existence where Big Brother can whisk anyone and everyone it chooses away to some gulag. All in the name of "national security" or whatever cause du jour is prevalent.

Intent is irrelevant. Holding the government to the letter of the law is the only proper way for this issue to be dealt with.
 
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