Fedex guy tells me I cannot ship firearms to myself w/o FFL by law

[ChronoCube]

I was at FedEx today and the agent there told me that all interstate firearms shipments, even to yourself, had to go to a dealer -- as required by law and not just a matter of company policy.

I told him that I was under the impression that shipping ordinary firearms to yourself does not require an FFL.

But he seemed pretty confident of what he said. He said that people who were moving to another state had to ship their firearms to a dealer in that state.

Is he right?

 

[Rio Laxas]

No, he is wrong.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional

They can still refuse to take the shipment (and FEDEX will), but it is not against the law. In my experience, UPS and FEDEX will both refuse to take the shipment. USPS will take the shipment of rifles and shotguns to yourself, however, I have had to argue with several post offices (though I have always won when I produce the postal code). It would be against the law for an unlicensed person to ship a handgun by USPS.

 

[NavyLCDR]

He was wrong. It is not against the law. It is only against their company policy:

http://www.fedex.com/us/terms/express-ground/index.html

FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

 

[Azb]

Oddly, you cannot ship cash through UPS either. I found that out the other day while sending a small amount of cash to a holster maker for a holster.

USPS will send it no problem.

OTOH, if you package it up at home, how would they ever know?

Az

 

[sarduy]

just box the gun, "invisible from the outside" and ship it, when they ask... just say "machine tools" make sure you insure it.

 

[Gryffydd]

just say "machine tools" make sure you insure it.

2. Make sure they don't have a clause where if you lie about the contents the insurance is void.

What's really frustrating is that according to UPS policy, they will let you ship guns to yourself, but good luck finding a clerk that'll let you do it. It seems like they always refuse if you don't have the FFL of the recipient.

 

[Rio Laxas]

just say "machine tools" make sure you insure it.

I'd be careful of that. My reading of the below indicates that you may need to provide written notice to the carrier if shipping a firearm to yourself in another state.

18 U.S.C. 922(e)

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or
legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard
any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or
ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or
operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the
trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No
common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.

Personally, I don't think that shipping your own firearms to yourself in another state is "transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce", because you aren't selling the firearm, but the federal government has so grossly expanded the definition of "interstate commerce" in gun laws that it seems a bit cloudy to me.

 

[mgkdrgn]

just box the gun, "invisible from the outside" and ship it, when they ask... just say "machine tools" make sure you insure it.

If you insure it, they won't pay off on damage to a gun (shipped in violation of company policy) ... so don't waste your money.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yes, don't lie about the contents being a gun.

Call around, print off the laws and argue with the manager, etc but don't lie about it.

If you call around you will eventually find someone who is human that you can actually reason with.

 

[dogtown tom]

almostfree:...Personally, I don't think that shipping your own firearms to yourself in another state is "transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce", because you aren't selling the firearm...

Has nothing to do with selling or buying and everything to do with shipping. And shipping interstate is most certainly interstate commerce. You paid someone to ship it- that's commerce.

 

[Thiokol]

Do not listen to the "experts" that tell you to declare the contents to be anything other than a firearm. You must tell the UPS or Fedex clerk that the package contains a firearm. That's a federal law. Here's what is on the BATFE's website:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

I can tell you from personal experience that if you violate the Fedex or UPS firearms tariff and the shipment is lost, stolen, or damaged, You are SOL as far as collecting on a claim.

 

[Oro]

The way I follow the law and avoid hassles from ignorant clerks is to use FedEx online. You can declare the contents, insure it, print the label, and then just drop it in a FedEx drop box anywhere.

I have found nothing in the FedEx tariff that says you must take a firearm to a staffed counter. The last time I tried that, a woman was not letting me ship the firearms. Another employee saw what was happening, and fortunately he was a "gun guy." He came over and sorted it out and corrected her. Since I don't know what hours he's going to be there, I use the online shipping and drop-box method from now on.

 

[zxcvbob]

The BATF's web page is wrong (and they know it.) You do not have to notify the carrier of the contents when shipping to a FFL holder or someone in your own state. (it's less certain about shipping to yourself)

 

[Thiokol]

The BATF's web page is wrong (and they know it.) You do not have to notify the carrier of the contents when shipping to a FFL holder or someone in your own state.

Please show us your proof that the BATFE's website is wrong.

 

[Rail Driver]

The BATF's web page is wrong (and they know it.) You do not have to notify the carrier of the contents when shipping to a FFL holder or someone in your own state. (it's less certain about shipping to yourself)

Do you have a legal citation for this? I'd be happy to see this as it would help me a bit if true.

 

[Librarian]

18 USC 922 (e)

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped;
...
No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.

Within your own state is not 'interstate'.

 

[Thiokol]

The BATF's web page is wrong

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Scroll down to paragraph e if you're still of the opinion that the BATFE's website is wrong.

 

[zxcvbob]

The BATF's web page is wrong

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/us...2----000-.html

Scroll down to paragraph e if you're still of the opinion that the BATFE's website is wrong.

Paragraph e is exactly where the BATF's FAQ got it wrong. (read it carefully)

 

[TexasRifleman]

He makes a valid point since the law specifically calls out interstate commerce it seems.

I still wouldn't lie about it though.

 

[Art Eatman]

The only way that BATFE could be wrong is if Congress specifically disallowed that particular regulation--so think, "Hen's teeth". After all, BATFE is authorized to promulgate all those regulations. Congress wrote most gun control laws with folks from BATFE telling them what to write.

We're stuck with, "If BATFE says it's so, it's so."

Shipping a gun to yourself from State A to State B may be commerce insofar as the shipping, but it is NOT commerce in firearms. Commerce in firearms is what is at issue. Save the Philadelphia Lawyer booger-hunting, okay? (Use Kleenex.)

If a firearm is shipped from State A to State B as a sale, then it must go to an FFL.

 

[zxcvbob]

Can nobody else read "persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors"? Has nothing to do with whether it goes thru an FFL, this is about notifying the common carrier. (btw, USPS is not a common carrier)

 

[Rail Driver]

So let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly... Shipping a sale gun the same state is ok without declaration, shipping to yourself in your own or any state is ok without declaration, but shipping to someone else (sale) in another state does require declaration? (on edit) This assumes the person shipping the firearm is not an FFL, nor is the person receiving the firearm.

 

[zoom6zoom]

shipping to someone else (sale) in another state does require declaration? (on edit) This assumes the person shipping the firearm is not an FFL, nor is the person receiving the firearm.

Moot, as you can't ship between non-licensees in different states in any circumstance.

 

[zxcvbob]

If the person receiving the firearm is an FFL (it would be good to have a copy of their FFL form in the package), it doesn't matter legally if the sender has one or not. It may or may not matter to the FFL; they might not like receive guns from not licensees.

IANAL (but I can read)

 

[Rail Driver]

Moot, as you can't ship between non-licensees in different states in any circumstance.

That part is actually something I already knew, but had a momentary mental lapse, thanks for catching it.

You didn't address the rest of my question though.