Fedex guy tells me I cannot ship firearms to myself w/o FFL by law

[hirundo82]

I've shipped to myself using UPS before--they, unlike FedEx, don't restrict it to to or from an FFL. I went with a printout of the ATF website ond the UPS policies on shipping firearms, but the clerk didn't have a problem with it.

If you are flying somewhere, it is easier and cheaper to just check firearms in your luggage. I only shipped to myself (c/o my parents) because I had to spend a few days in Washington DC before going to Virginia.

 

[Jimmy10mm]

If the person receiving the firearm is an FFL (it would be good to have a copy of their FFL form in the package), it doesn't matter legally if the sender has one or not. It may or may not matter to the FFL; they might not like receive guns from not licensees.

So as a non FFL holder I could sell a handgun in the THR classifieds or on Gunbroker and ship to an FFL holder legally ? Assuming, of course, that the FFL holder was agreeable ?

 

[zxcvbob]

So as a non FFL holder I could sell a handgun in the THR classifieds or on Gunbroker and ship to an FFL holder legally? Assuming of course, that the FFL holder was agreeable?

Yes. Work out the details with the receiving FFL before you ship. (and it might be cheaper to pay a local FFL to *mail* the gun for you)

 

[Chevyguy85]

2. Make sure they don't have a clause where if you lie about the contents the insurance is void.

What's really frustrating is that according to UPS policy, they will let you ship guns to yourself, but good luck finding a clerk that'll let you do it. It seems like they always refuse if you don't have the FFL of the recipient.

you have to go to a UPS Hub/Center not a UPS store in order to ship a firearm with UPS...Some UPS stores will do it but they are not supposed to. I believe FEDEX is the same way but I know for sure the policy with UPS is that it is supposed to be shipped from a Hub/Center and not a UPS store

 

[NavyLCDR]

So let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly... Shipping a sale gun the same state is ok without declaration

Yes.

shipping to yourself in your own or any state is ok without declaration

In your own state, yes. Outside your own state, technically that requires written notification to the shipping company, unless you happen to hold an FFL. Would that be enforced? Doubful, because the shipment itself would be otherwise lawful. The written notification requirement is there to prevent shipping companies from unknowingly making an illegal delivery.

but shipping to someone else (sale) in another state does require declaration? (on edit) This assumes the person shipping the firearm is not an FFL, nor is the person receiving the firearm.

Not quite. The status of the person shipping the firearm (FFL or not) does not matter. It is just as illegal for an FFL to ship a firearm to a private party out of state (with the exception of returned/replaced firearms due to repair) as it is for a private party to do so. So, the answer is yes, notification is required, whether or not the shipper is an FFL.

 

[vanagon40]

Moot, as you can't ship between non-licensees in different states in any circumstance.

Not necessarily. As the statute applies to a firearm or ammunition, the provision would be applicable to interstate shipments of ammunition to a non-licensee.

 

[countertop]

What's really frustrating is that according to UPS policy, they will let you ship guns to yourself, but good luck finding a clerk that'll let you do it. It seems like they always refuse if you don't have the FFL of the recipient.

You can't ship guns - per UPS policy - from a UPS Store or a Mailboxes etc or any other place where they pick the guns up. You need to ship it to and from an actual UPS customer service center (shipping depot).

Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.

I've never had a problem shipping a gun with UPS.

 

[Gryffydd]

You need to ship it to and from an actual UPS customer service center (shipping depot).

I realize that. Those are the people I'm talking about.

I've never had a problem shipping a gun with UPS.

Me neither. Except when I tried to ship myself one. That's the part they don't get.

 

[doc2rn]

Why dont you just disassemble them and ship them as parts. They never give me grief over parts and I just take the firing pins with me.

 

[EOD Guy]

Moot, as you can't ship between non-licensees in different states in any circumstance.

Not true. There are many exceptions to the law and regulations that allow shipment to unlicensed entities. Some examples are shipments to yourself, returns to the owner from repair or customization, shipments by the CMP, shipments to law enforcement agencies, shipments to military officers, etc, etc, etc.

Not necessarily. As the statute applies to a firearm or ammunition, the provision would be applicable to interstate shipments of ammunition to a non-licensee.

The regulation has no weight as far as ammunition shipment is concerned. BATF does not have authority over shipments of hazardous materials. Ammunition is a hazardous material and Congress gave authority over those shipments to the Secretary of Transportation. DOT exercises that authority and does not cede it to any other department.

DOT does require hazard communications markings on all HAZMAT packages. That would provide notification. FFL status of the shipper or recipient does not matter.

 

[PT1911]

A friend of mine WITH AN FFL went to UPS to ship a slide assembly last year, the clerk told him she couldnt send it... he stated their rules to her and asked her to call a manager to verify. Well the manager then asked several questions, via the clerk. Do you have an FFL? YES... Is it going to the manufacturer? YES.... is it a complete gun? NO, the frame (ie serial number) is not included. And the verdict is..... Sorry, we cannot send it....

 

[rcmodel]

Why dont you just disassemble them and ship them as parts.

Because under Federal law, the frame or receiver with the serial number on it is a Firearm, regardless of whether it contains parts or not.

rc

 

[docpadds]

The way I follow the law and avoid hassles from ignorant clerks is to use FedEx online. You can declare the contents, insure it, print the label, and then just drop it in a FedEx drop box anywhere.

I have found nothing in the FedEx tariff that says you must take a firearm to a staffed counter. The last time I tried that, a woman was not letting me ship the firearms. Another employee saw what was happening, and fortunately he was a "gun guy." He came over and sorted it out and corrected her. Since I don't know what hours he's going to be there, I use the online shipping and drop-box method from now on.

This is incorrect per the Fedex Service Guide

Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

And really Fedex are easy, just setup a pickup and they appear in a couple hours and take it, just declare to the driver and you're good to go.

 

[waterhouse]

Do not listen to the "experts" that tell you to declare the contents to be anything other than a firearm. You must tell the UPS or Fedex clerk that the package contains a firearm. That's a federal law. Here's what is on the BATFE's website:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

The BATF's web page is wrong (and they know it.) You do not have to notify the carrier of the contents when shipping to a FFL holder or someone in your own state. (it's less certain about shipping to yourself)

Please show us your proof that the BATFE's website is wrong.

 

[stchman]

Myh suggestion is to get a C&R 03 license. C&R folks are FFLs. This might be the way to show that you are shipping the firearm to an FFL.

 

[mgkdrgn]

The way I follow the law and avoid hassles from ignorant clerks is to use FedEx online. You can declare the contents, insure it, print the label, and then just drop it in a FedEx drop box anywhere.

I have found nothing in the FedEx tariff that says you must take a firearm to a staffed counter. The last time I tried that, a woman was not letting me ship the firearms. Another employee saw what was happening, and fortunately he was a "gun guy." He came over and sorted it out and corrected her. Since I don't know what hours he's going to be there, I use the online shipping and drop-box method from now on.

.... except that you can't (shouldn't) put a firearm in a drop box ... violation of the rules.

When you run into an un-knowledgeable clerk, just as for management. You won't have to ever ask for them again. ;-)

 

[Danb1215]

So is there anyway to legally ship a handgun you own to yourself/ your residence in another state?

 

[OldMac]

It appears that the 03FFL (C&R) provides another beneficial use in this case. You can ship a firearm from a licensed collector (you) and a licensed collector (you again).

 

[Jim K]

The history helps a bit here. The late Tom Dodd, major sponsor of GCA '68, got started on his anti-gun crusade because "juvenile delinquents" (the now-quaint name for young thugs) were supposedly buying handguns by mail order. He first introduced legislation to require carriers to deliver handguns only to adults. Of course, the carrier had to know that the package contained a gun. So that paragraph is a remnant of the earlier bill, incorporated into GCA '68, where it is pretty much unnecessary, since shipment of a handgun across a state line to a non-licensee is very restricted anyway.

Just another example of our Congress legislating before reading. (I wonder how many of our representatives read even a line of the 2700 page Health Care bill.)

Jim

 

[bushmaster1313]

The Post Office is very good about accepting long gun shipments (but do NOT mail a handgun)

Not sure if mailing to yourself is allowed under Federal Gun laws, but the Post Office would take it and they do not ask you what is in the package.

 

[Bluehawk]

Waterhouse...
great job in showing the ATF letter...that just about sums it up for interstate shipments...now we need to get clarification on intrastate!

 

[Gouranga]

Why do I see this same (or similar) conversation going back and forth at FedEx and UPS sometime in the past and one of the corporate guys just saying "Screw it! I have a headache, this ain't worth it just ban shipping them and lets go home!"

I swear this is why they make these laws so twisted they are specifically designed to frustrate you to the point that you just give up.

 

[Rogue6]

When do firearms parts actually constitute a firearm?

I'm curious as to the authority behind one of the posts above. Someone mentioned that you can't get past these shipping regulations by, for example, separating the upper and lower receiver on a handgun and mailing them separately as parts rather than as a firearm.

 

[dogtown tom]

Rogue6 I'm curious as to the authority behind one of the posts above. Someone mentioned that you can't get past these shipping regulations by, for example, separating the upper and lower receiver on a handgun and mailing them separately as parts rather than as a firearm.

Removing the slide from a semiautomatic pistol does not change the fact that the frame is still a firearm under Federal law. some internet Einsteins believe that dissassembly suddenly renders it into something else. It doesn't.

ATF designates what part of a firearm is considered THE FIREARM. For handguns it is almost always the frame. The part designated as the firearm must have a unique serial number engraved or marked on it. Other parts such as grips, slide, barrel, sights,etc are not considered firearms in and of themselves.

There are some exceptions, SIG has a model that has a "fire control group" that can fit in several different frames- yet only the fire control group is considered a firearm on it's own.

 

[RugerGirl]

I used to work at FedEx Office and our monthly meetings CONSTANTLY had this as a topic. We came to the decision that we will allow shipment to licensed dealers if and ONLY if they produce a copy of the FFL of both the shipper and receiver, with the exception of shippers sending a firearm back to the manufacturer (no copy of license required for that). Also shipped Express only. The copies are shipped with the Airbill as to note that we acquired verification it was going to a licensed recipient.

What I would also recommend is speaking to the 800# and telling them your situation, saying you had a copy of your license and the person it's going to, they will call the store you wish to go to and make them aware they can ship it for you.

Also, I would suggest going to a FedEx "main hub" and not a smaller shipping store like FedEx Office. The main hub has more qualified employees that know the laws and rules of FedEx. Most of the FedEx Offices are just retail workers that do not know all the shipping rules and regulations (like the one I worked in). They hear "firearm", "shotgun", or "handgun"...they avoid it like the plague.