Cosmoline
Member
Yet another piece of horrible journalism. I can't tell who's on first.
Felon dares CCW holder to "shoot me"
- Thread starter gunsmith
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doberman
Member
*head explodes*
rock jock
Member
Just confirms what I've always said - fast food is bad for you.
This is what I have (had to read it a few times, but I work with lawyers and have two kids under 5 so I'm getting pretty literate in Incomprehensible).
Cast:
Kevin Kramer (shooter & dog owner)
Willard “Ross” Brymer (guy who got shot)
Dena Carter (Witness)
Dog (dog)
Ex-wife version
Brymer and Carter were sharing a BigMac on the grass in a park.
Giant dog attacked picnickers.
Brymer said, "Shoo!"
Kramer said, "Don't talk to my dog, Punk!"
Kramer pulls gun and shoots Brymer.
Force of gunshot propels Brymer onto Carter's car.
Force of gunshot also disembowles Brymer.
Kramer attacks self.
Shooter version
Brymer and Carter were sharing a BigMac on the grass in a park.
Dog (Cocker Spaniel) came over and asked to share the BigMac, or maybe just a fry or two.
Brymer screams at dog, "Shoo! Get away!"
Kramer said, "Don't talk to my dog, Punk!"
Brymer threatens Kramer.
Kramer displays legally carried firearm. Tells Brymer to "Get away."
Brymer says, "Shoot me!"
Brymer attacks Kramer.
Kramer obliges and shoots Brymer in the chest.
Dog eats BigMac.
Additional Facts:
Brymer is a deeply religious multiple violent felon ironworker with five kids.
Carter is the ex-wife of Brymer and McDonalds afficionado.
Kramer needed stiches after attack.
Cast:
Kevin Kramer (shooter & dog owner)
Willard “Ross” Brymer (guy who got shot)
Dena Carter (Witness)
Dog (dog)
Ex-wife version
Brymer and Carter were sharing a BigMac on the grass in a park.
Giant dog attacked picnickers.
Brymer said, "Shoo!"
Kramer said, "Don't talk to my dog, Punk!"
Kramer pulls gun and shoots Brymer.
Force of gunshot propels Brymer onto Carter's car.
Force of gunshot also disembowles Brymer.
Kramer attacks self.
Shooter version
Brymer and Carter were sharing a BigMac on the grass in a park.
Dog (Cocker Spaniel) came over and asked to share the BigMac, or maybe just a fry or two.
Brymer screams at dog, "Shoo! Get away!"
Kramer said, "Don't talk to my dog, Punk!"
Brymer threatens Kramer.
Kramer displays legally carried firearm. Tells Brymer to "Get away."
Brymer says, "Shoot me!"
Brymer attacks Kramer.
Kramer obliges and shoots Brymer in the chest.
Dog eats BigMac.
Additional Facts:
Brymer is a deeply religious multiple violent felon ironworker with five kids.
Carter is the ex-wife of Brymer and McDonalds afficionado.
Kramer needed stiches after attack.
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ssteven1
Member
Carter is Brymers ex-wife
shermacman
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
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- 1,751
The dog is from a litter of pups from Brymer's first wife who was killed by her second husband.
No, I made that up!
No, I made that up!
gunsmith
member
jdberger-thank you!
I was very concerned with the outcome of the big macTM
I was very concerned with the outcome of the big macTM
El Tejon
Member
Mike, please speculate as to the tooth to tattoo ratio present at the festivities. 
Igloodude
Member
Thanks for the summary, jd - I was thinking that the woman was the ex of the CCW shooter, and simultaneously calling the CCW shooter a saint and that he faked his own wounds. I'm getting a headache just thinking about thinking about it. :banghead:
iamkris
Member
Frankly I knew where this was going when the story said they were "eatin' fast food out on the front lawn". They probably picked it up to celebrate the fact they had just finished up taping the Jerry Springer show as featured guests.
Ross Brymer Jr
As I sit here reading your post, I think how judgemental you all are. I know this man personally. His family is going through H**L with what has happended. As for the Jerry Springer remark, that was just wrong. Who here can say that they have not made mistakes in his life. I know I cannot. I do agree the whole thing could and should have not happened and Ross did open his big mouth, but the man is still in critical condition and fighting for his life. Maybe the whole truth will come out when he gets OFF LIFE SUPPORT!! And just to clairify, he was hit in the belly and he lost most of his liver, his spleen. 1/2 of his intenstines and part of his stomach.
renogal
As I sit here reading your post, I think how judgemental you all are. I know this man personally. His family is going through H**L with what has happended. As for the Jerry Springer remark, that was just wrong. Who here can say that they have not made mistakes in his life. I know I cannot. I do agree the whole thing could and should have not happened and Ross did open his big mouth, but the man is still in critical condition and fighting for his life. Maybe the whole truth will come out when he gets OFF LIFE SUPPORT!! And just to clairify, he was hit in the belly and he lost most of his liver, his spleen. 1/2 of his intenstines and part of his stomach.
renogal
Renogal,
Perhaps it is easier to make fun of Mr. Brymer because we don't know him. I, for one, am sorry that it hurts your feelings.
All we have to go on is the report in the newspaper. From that poorly written account, it seems like Mr. Brymer attacked a man that he knew to be armed and who he had also dared to shoot him.
I would be interested in your version.
Perhaps it is easier to make fun of Mr. Brymer because we don't know him. I, for one, am sorry that it hurts your feelings.
All we have to go on is the report in the newspaper. From that poorly written account, it seems like Mr. Brymer attacked a man that he knew to be armed and who he had also dared to shoot him.
I would be interested in your version.
gc70
Member
I don't think my father would have liked Kramer. Daddy always said never use a gun to threaten a man - shoot him if you need to, but don't threaten him.
CARRY'IN
member
Sounds about right to me. The article is terrible. The only thing that comes through loud and clear to me is that a gunowner shot someone for yelling at his dog. Anti-gun message there for sure.
shermacman
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Messages
- 1,751
Renogal,
I contributed to some of the obnoxious comments on this thread. It goes without saying that I meant no harm to you or anyone personally affected by this shooting. The vast majority of the posts here were directly related to the wording of the article. It was a terribly written report. I am sorry to have added to your pain in this event. I hope all works out for the best; for you, your friends and the family of the man involved.
I contributed to some of the obnoxious comments on this thread. It goes without saying that I meant no harm to you or anyone personally affected by this shooting. The vast majority of the posts here were directly related to the wording of the article. It was a terribly written report. I am sorry to have added to your pain in this event. I hope all works out for the best; for you, your friends and the family of the man involved.
fastbolt
Member
Personally, I'd suspect that it's hardly ever wise to rely on a media (especially newspaper) account of something to try and understand what really happened ...
The article was poorly written, granted. I'd like to say that I've never read a crime report written by another cop that was as bad, but I can't say that ... I can even admit to having read worse, as a matter of fact, and really wonder what standards they're using nowadays to evaluate and pass folks in FTO programs.
Eye witnesses can be unreliable.
Sometimes witnesses can make a lot of assumptions, even to the point of drawing conclusions, instead of providing whatever clear & unbiased observations they may possess.
Sometimes they desperately want to tell you what they think is important, instead of answering what you ask. They may take offense if you don't want to hear their opinions and conclusions, but only learn what they specifically actually heard or saw.
Sometimes they may have a personal reason to distort the facts, or at least take great liberties with them.
Sometimes they simply don't understand what occurred, or remember it as it occurred.
Defensive wounds can often be identified by medical examinations.
There are often more witnesses to an event than you might think. The trick is finding them and getting them to cooperate.
Not every defensive problem requires a gun, either.
It 's not common to hear an ordinary citizen apparently entice someone, whom they know is armed, to shoot them. It might not be all that unbelieveable to learn that someone with a felony criminal history involving violence might do something like that, though.
None of us can render judgment on what happened, nor should we try ...
We weren't there, for one thing, and it's not our responsibility for another.
It does sort of sound like another day at work ...
Stay safe and AWARE folks.
The article was poorly written, granted. I'd like to say that I've never read a crime report written by another cop that was as bad, but I can't say that ... I can even admit to having read worse, as a matter of fact, and really wonder what standards they're using nowadays to evaluate and pass folks in FTO programs.
Eye witnesses can be unreliable.
Sometimes witnesses can make a lot of assumptions, even to the point of drawing conclusions, instead of providing whatever clear & unbiased observations they may possess.
Sometimes they desperately want to tell you what they think is important, instead of answering what you ask. They may take offense if you don't want to hear their opinions and conclusions, but only learn what they specifically actually heard or saw.
Sometimes they may have a personal reason to distort the facts, or at least take great liberties with them.
Sometimes they simply don't understand what occurred, or remember it as it occurred.
Defensive wounds can often be identified by medical examinations.
There are often more witnesses to an event than you might think. The trick is finding them and getting them to cooperate.
Not every defensive problem requires a gun, either.
It 's not common to hear an ordinary citizen apparently entice someone, whom they know is armed, to shoot them. It might not be all that unbelieveable to learn that someone with a felony criminal history involving violence might do something like that, though.
None of us can render judgment on what happened, nor should we try ...
We weren't there, for one thing, and it's not our responsibility for another.
It does sort of sound like another day at work ...
Stay safe and AWARE folks.
Wait wait wait....we can render judgment...............
We were given a particular version of the facts that have not been contradicted, so far. From that version of the facts, we determined that that shoot-ee made a poor choice in inviting the shooter to shoot him, and then reinforcing the point by attacking him. These are reasonable conclusions given the facts that we have been presented with.
I am not omnicient. I can't know everything. Until I am presented with a contrary fact pattern, I will continue to opine that Mr. Brymer committed an extraordinarily stupid act.
Though I feel some empathy toward Renogal and the family of Mr. Brymer, I don't regret my comments or my attempts at satire.
Finally, part of the deterrent of doing something stupid is the shame and hurt that it will bring your family and friends. Sorry, Renogal, for your pain, but Mr. Brymer's actions had consequences. Perhaps he should have considered them before acting.
We were given a particular version of the facts that have not been contradicted, so far. From that version of the facts, we determined that that shoot-ee made a poor choice in inviting the shooter to shoot him, and then reinforcing the point by attacking him. These are reasonable conclusions given the facts that we have been presented with.
I am not omnicient. I can't know everything. Until I am presented with a contrary fact pattern, I will continue to opine that Mr. Brymer committed an extraordinarily stupid act.
Though I feel some empathy toward Renogal and the family of Mr. Brymer, I don't regret my comments or my attempts at satire.
Finally, part of the deterrent of doing something stupid is the shame and hurt that it will bring your family and friends. Sorry, Renogal, for your pain, but Mr. Brymer's actions had consequences. Perhaps he should have considered them before acting.
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gunsmith
member
Renogal ,0ne post only?
eh.
So Ross opened his big mouth? (your words)
He knew the other guy had a gun?
You need better friends lady!
If you hang out with people like Ross you're putting your life in danger.
Personally I have a hard time accepting your for real.
If you are real , let me buy you a cup of coffee!
eh.
So Ross opened his big mouth? (your words)
He knew the other guy had a gun?
You need better friends lady!
If you hang out with people like Ross you're putting your life in danger.
Personally I have a hard time accepting your for real.
If you are real , let me buy you a cup of coffee!
M-Rex
member
My spider sense is tingling.
I'm getting the gut feeling that this was a Nora Henry Ida situation.
No Humans Involved.
I'm getting the gut feeling that this was a Nora Henry Ida situation.
No Humans Involved.
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