I won an auction online and already sent over payment. The seller is trying to ship and our respective FFLs each insist the other FFL needs to send a copy of their license first (VA to IL) and will reciprocate once that has been done. We are at an impasse. Has anyone else run into this? Is there any rule preventing an FFL from sending a copy of his license until he has verified the recipient is a licensed dealer? TIA
FFL headache
- Thread starter HC_Jack
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BSA1
member
BATF website has a link that takes you to the list of FFL holders. It is not necessary for the dealers to actually have a signed copy of the other guy’s license although I can understand why some do.
FlSwampRat
Member
We do transfers like that all the time. I don't care who sends first, the seller or me the receiving ffl. Just as long as we both have them and know the other is legit.
A printed copy goes in the box with the gun.
cjwils
Member
In my experience, if both sides want an FFL, then the receiving FFL first emails a pdf to the shipping FFL. Then the shipping FFL puts a copy of his document into the package being shipped.
newfalguy101
Member
One of you needs to find a new FFL....
The shipper needs the FFL info to enter in his boundbook.
Technically, the receiving FFL does not NEED jack from the shipper, however, its in BOTH of their best interest for the shipper to send his FFL info.
When I had my FFL, I would send my info either with payment or by email.
Never dealt with any FFL who didnt send their info.
The shipper needs the FFL info to enter in his boundbook.
Technically, the receiving FFL does not NEED jack from the shipper, however, its in BOTH of their best interest for the shipper to send his FFL info.
When I had my FFL, I would send my info either with payment or by email.
Never dealt with any FFL who didnt send their info.
billybob44
Contributing Member
To ME...
This IS the reason that you pay the FFL fee.==For the two-Sellers FFL, AND the Buyers FFL, to "get along" and do the paperwork as needed??..Bill.
This IS the reason that you pay the FFL fee.==For the two-Sellers FFL, AND the Buyers FFL, to "get along" and do the paperwork as needed??..Bill.
dogtown tom
Member
ATF regs/Federal law is clear that the receiving dealer is NOT required to have a copy of the shipping dealers FFL. It is almost always included with the firearm as a courtesy.
ATF regs/Federal law DOES require the shipping dealer to have a copy of the receiving dealers FFL before shipping the firearm.
Receiving dealers who demand a copy before sending theirs are playing the "you show me yours, I'll show you mine game"........for no good reason. Dealers who play that game get placed on the "Do not do business with" list on the FFL Forum.
Me: I need a copy of your FFL to ship a firearm to a customer of yours, Joe Q Public.
Idiot: I need to have yours first.
Me: I'll include a copy with the firearm along with the buyers name and contact info.
Idiot: I want yours before I send a copy.
Me: Why is that?
Idiot: How do I know you are an FFL?
Me: How do I know YOU are an FFL?
Most will realize at that point, the silliness of such a stupid policy. While a person is free to choose any FFL they want.........I won't play that game.
If both dealers have the same "show me yours, I'll then show you mine" policy..........find betters FFL's.
ATF regs/Federal law DOES require the shipping dealer to have a copy of the receiving dealers FFL before shipping the firearm.
Receiving dealers who demand a copy before sending theirs are playing the "you show me yours, I'll show you mine game"........for no good reason. Dealers who play that game get placed on the "Do not do business with" list on the FFL Forum.
Me: I need a copy of your FFL to ship a firearm to a customer of yours, Joe Q Public.
Idiot: I need to have yours first.
Me: I'll include a copy with the firearm along with the buyers name and contact info.
Idiot: I want yours before I send a copy.
Me: Why is that?
Idiot: How do I know you are an FFL?
Me: How do I know YOU are an FFL?
Most will realize at that point, the silliness of such a stupid policy. While a person is free to choose any FFL they want.........I won't play that game.
If both dealers have the same "show me yours, I'll then show you mine" policy..........find betters FFL's.
mcb
Member
FFL information is publicly available. You can look it up on the ATF website and several other websites. There is nothing private or secret about an FFLs information.
dogtown tom
Member
CoalTrain49
Member
I think that's the problem. Never heard of such silliness before. Some people who have FFL's....... shouldn't.
FlSwampRat
Member
I have our ffl as a pdf on my computer. I ask people to email me their ffl and I reply with mine or vice versa, doesn't much matter to me which way we do it.
I'm not going to play the "after you" "no after you" silliness.
We do ffl transfers solely as a convenience to our customers as the time involved costs the company more in paperwork etc. than the charge for doing the transfer covers. I have never had any dealer have an issue with supplying a copy of their ffl to us pre-shipping.
skeeterfogger
member
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Get ATF regs in print and tell your FFL you expect them to follow the regs. If they refuse find another. Me personally, I would then file a complaint on them for not following the regs.
dogtown tom
Member
No regulation requires any licensed dealer to send a copy of their FFL to anyone at anytime. You can complain all you want, but he ain't breaking the law.
Now, it's going to be impossible to receive firearms from other licensees....because its only required when receiving from a licensee.
old lady new shooter
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Thank you for clearly stating the actual rules.
skeeterfogger
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So your earlier post is not correct?
waterhouse
Member
Where does this contradict his earlier post?
waterhouse
Member
Since the other dealer can’t ship the gun without your dealer sending out the FFL, and your dealer won’t do that, it seems that you need to find a new FFL.
dogtown tom
Member
No, its correct.
You wrote" Get ATF regs in print and tell your FFL you expect them to follow the regs. If they refuse find another. Me personally, I would then file a complaint on them for not following the regs."
The regs require the shipping dealer to have a copy of the receiving dealers FFL before shipping. Nothing requires any dealer to send a copy of his FFL if he doesn't want to.... meaning no other licensed dealer can ship him a firearm.
skeeterfogger
member
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Ok. I get that. It's what the regs require per you earlier post that I considered "how FFL holders must opperate." It makes no sense though for an FFL that a person has asked to handle a transaction to look at it that way. Either they follow the regs as prescribed or turn away the work. If the FFL has agreed to the work the regs dictate not the FFL holder. To take the work then refuse the regs is wrong on all account. Law or not the regs are the lawful rules. IMO
dogtown tom
Member
Correct, the receiving dealer by refusing to send the shipping dealer his FFL, is turning away the possibility of a transfer.
Your post indicated that you would report a receiving dealer for not sending a copy of his FFL......thats not a violation of any sort.
It would be a violation if the shipping dealer shipped a firearm without having a copy of the receiving dealers FFL in hand. Thats what the regs require.
Speedo66
Member
The receiving FFL doesn't "need" a copy of the sending FFL, he can legally receive a gun even from a private party, no FFL copy needed.
If he's choosing to impose this arbitrary rule himself, then he should be a gentleman and send his copy first. Sounds like he's just being a jerk.
If he's choosing to impose this arbitrary rule himself, then he should be a gentleman and send his copy first. Sounds like he's just being a jerk.
Doesn't need to be a physical piece of paper. Email it as an attachment. Of course for repeat business they will have your FFL on file. I've always swapped FFLs with dealers and other collectors when buying.
When I bought a P64 Polish made 9mm (makarov caliber) from Classic Firearms in North Carolina they sent a copy of their license and they already had mine on file. It was just a courtesy.
When I bought a P64 Polish made 9mm (makarov caliber) from Classic Firearms in North Carolina they sent a copy of their license and they already had mine on file. It was just a courtesy.
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